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Difference Between High 1-B and 1-A?

How is that any different? You just said it doesnt matter how many dimensions there are in a reality didnt you? They existed before those dimensions existed.
 
Mate by your logic, ANY character that existed before, say, a universe or a multiverse, would be 1-A. You transcend a structure, not the dimensions themselves that composes it.
 
Continuing with the ladder again

The framework of the ladder, the two side posts, exist. The High Old Ones exist within the framework. Then, the steps of the ladder, the multi-dimensioned world, are created. Each step is infinitely larger and more complex than the last.

A 1-A being is not within the framework at all
 
The real cal howard said:
Not if they still exist in/originate from where the ladder was.
Click to expand...


What? So a High 1-B could never upgrade/power up to 1-A in the same way a character can upgrade from city level to planet level? Because I've seen characters on this wiki that have multiple tags that peak at 1-A but have tags below it.
 
They dont. The ladder analogy you guys are using can be equivocated to the Tree of Knowledge in the verse. The Nothingness existed before and beyond the Tree, and the HEG existed before and beyond that.
 
No Weekly. The ladder itself is the very concept of dimensions.

What I'm saying: Even if SCP-verse as High 1-B, the High Elder Gods STILL wouldn't be 1-A. This is plainly not enough.
 


What? So a High 1-B could never upgrade/power up to 1-A in the same way a character can upgrade from city level to planet level? Because I've seen characters on this wiki that have multiple tags that peak at 1-A but have tags below it.

Because they get new "forms", so to speak. It's highly unlikely to power up to 1-A. For example, Reinhard acquired Taikyou, which even at its lowest is 1-A.
 
I still don't see how a previously established High 1-B destroying the ladder in its entirety and continuing on existing, doesn't qualify it for a 1-A upgrade. What if they were to create an entirely new ladder? Then would they be 1-A?

I'm asking these questions because I'm trying to differentiate High 1-Bs from 1-As even further from the description given by this wiki.

Apart from transcending dimensions altogether, what actual capabilities does a 1-A have that a High 1-B wouldn't have? What more could they do to an infinite dimensional reality (or just reality) that a High 1-B couldn't do?
 
Let me place it simply, Oh chum.

High 1-B is just a mere lil' infinite dimensional. A child still playing with their toys.

1-A doesn't care about dimensions and has transcended that. A child outgrew their toys.
 
TurboTriangle601 said:
Let me place it simply, Oh chum.
High 1-B is just a mere lil' infinite dimensional. A child still playing with their toys.

1-A doesn't care about dimensions and has transcended that. A child outgrew their toys.
Click to expand...


But the 1-A could still play with the toys if it wanted to. And it would still be 1-A if it did. So I'm just asking what can a 1-A do that a High 1-B can't do? Beyond the description of "the 1-A transcends dimensions". I'm trying to get a deeper understand of what that actually means in terms of actual capabilities compared to a High 1-B.
 
@Turbo Well I guess what I want is the non-simplified explanation. I want an understanding of the difference between these two tiers beyond the simplified description found on this wiki.

@The real cal howard That's the kind of answer I'm looking for. Capabilities more exclusive to 1-A. Though that just tells me that they're harder to kill. So what would be the difference between High 1-B Attack Potency and 1-A Attack Potency? I guess destroying an outerverse is 1-A Attack Potency? If that even makes sense? Can a 1-A survive the destruction of an outerverse?
 
The real cal howard said:
Depending on the 1-A (can you even destroy an outerverse without being tier 0?)
Click to expand...


Well there has to be something that a 1-A can destroy that a High 1-B can't. All 1-A characters have "Outerverse" level Attack Potency on their profiles. That sounds like they can destroy an Outerverse. If a 1-A can't destroy an Outerverse, then it seems like they don't have greater Attack Potency than High 1-Bs. They just have far more OP hax like transduality, meta-immortality etc...
 
The moment you start thinking of 1-A as destroying stuff on dimensional terms is the moment you're getting them wrong. Even more so when trying to gauge a 1-A by dimensional destruction...
 
This is ridiculously simple. An infinite dimensional being is still restrained by concepts relating to dimensions. Things such as higher, bigger, smaller, less, yada yada, duality in general if you will (though on an infinite dimensional scale, they are still ultimately working by dimensional terms).

A 1-A takes every single notion we use to gauge anything High 1-B and below and any dimensional notion that still has a hold over them, throws all that out of the window, then steps on it just by existing.
 
The real cal howard said:
If some entity destroyed everything, and I do mean everything, the 1-A would survive (without appropriate regen). The High 1-B won't, no matter how many infinities they're beyond another High 1-B.
Click to expand...

Death of the Endless can do that iirc. and she's a High 1-B

Saikou The Lewd King said:
You've destroyed an infinite dimensional reality, not dimensions themselves. Same as to why Weekly's example isn't 1-A.

You just broke something on top of the ladder but the ladder itself is just fine.
Click to expand...
The real cal howard said:
Well, the better analogy would be that you destroyed the steps, but the framework of the ladder still exists.
Click to expand...
so let me see if i got it right : 'the multiverse destruction must be so permanent that you must not be able to create new dimensional multiverse after that, because the framework/concept of dimension itself had been destroyed.'
does it sounds right?
 
I mean, a 1-A can recreate said ladder and likely a High 1-B. The latter just has to rebuild it from on top of that now broken ladder, and the concept of the ladder still exists for him/her. The former doesn't care about it and just makes a new one from its own area unbound by the ladder.

By everything, I mean creation and the void must be gone.
 
A High 1-B can create or destroy something that is infinitely dimensional but still works by dimensional terms.

A 1-A transcends all of said dimensional terms qualitatively, and, if we insist so much on the AP question, 1-A would create or destroy structures which are qualitatively transcendent of any dimensional limitations or properties, be they conceptual, physical, metaphysical or whatever word we try to come up with.

Simply put, they look at what we call "Infinity" and that translates to "Nobody cares" in their book.

In other words from 1-A and above what increases is more like the complexity of the beings to be even gauged in words or understood than simple dimensional logic such as "They can bring a bigger cannon!"
 
Okay so how would a High 1-B (or really any lower tier) be upgraded to 1-A? What are some things they would have to do? And to avoid an oversimplified answer, I'd like something other than "killing an established 1-A character".
 
From that point onwards, it just goes up and up in the whole transcendent and "powers/beings too complex to be properly described" scale until we eventually reach the two extremes of High 1-A and 0.
 
FateAlbane said:
In other words from 1-A and above what increases is more like the complexity of the beings to be even gauged in words or understood than simple dimensional logic such as "They can bring a bigger cannon!"
Click to expand...
Reinhard has 1-A Panzerfausts tho

ovo
 
'k seriously now.

Considering how high the tier is, the evidence for dimensional transcendence as a whole must be pretty solid for the character in question. For example, I've seen it in the 40k threads and I was pretty much convinced of 1-A Chaos Gods before people told me that, nah, would still be 1-B though in a extremely high scale.

Other than that, the tiering page explains pretty well the recquirements, as I see it at least.

Though naturally, considering how ridiculously high the tier is in scale, it's not any day that we get legitimate 1-A feats around. I'd assume both the cosmology and lore of the verse would need to have solid proof of that, and even more for the character transcending it to 1-A levels.

Kinda hard to elaborate on this. May be a case by case kind of thing to a degree, as well.
 
FateAlbane said:
A High 1-B can create or destroy something that is infinitely dimensional but still works by dimensional terms.
A 1-A transcends all of said dimensional terms qualitatively, and, if we insist so much on the AP question, 1-A would create or destroy structures which are qualitatively transcendent of any dimensional limitations or properties, be they conceptual, physical, metaphysical or whatever word we try to come up with.
Click to expand...


I feel like there should be a Low 1-A tier, because I feel like the typical High 1-B should not be able to destroy infinite dimensions, or survive the destruction of it, in the same sense that a typical 3-dimensional being cannot destroy the 3-dimensions it occupies, or survive the destruction if it. Any High 1-B that can actually destroy infinite dimensions is like the Low 2-Cs of High 1-Bs if that makes any sense. Therefore, any High 1-B that does destroy the very framework of infinite dimensions it occupies and survives, is sort scratching at the surface of being beyond dimensions, but isn't quite there, hence "Low 1-A". Or maybe High 1-B+?

But idk. Maybe there's not enough exampls of this in fiction.
 
Welp, on this matter I don't have much to say. I was responding to the main question of the thread, actually. ^_^'
 
The real cal howard said:
@XRJ, I mean, Transduality, Regenerationn (True Godly), and Immortality (Type 10) are all but restricted to 1-A and it's superior version.
Click to expand...
these abilities make a Tier 1-A so superior that its basically a tier within 1-A itself imo.

The real cal howard said:
Depending on the 1-A (can you even destroy an outerverse without being tier 0?)
Click to expand...
eh, isn't that something any hadou/gudou can do? because Throne = Outerverse, right?

... actually now that I thought about it, the very conept of Taikyoku might be what it means to be Outerverse. cause you know, being source of everything and all. if that's the case, then yes, i think you will be rated as Tier 0 if you can 'create' the 'concept' of Taikyoku itself.

FateAlbane said:
The moment you start thinking of 1-A as destroying stuff on dimensional terms is the moment you're getting them wrong. Even more so when trying to gauge a 1-A by dimensional destruction...
Click to expand...
precisely what i am thinking ;)

battle between 1-As would not even treat infinite dimensional multiverse as collateral damage.

The real cal howard said:
It's more of a matter of what other's can't do to them rather than what they can do to others.
Click to expand...
yeah, the more you go higher within 1-A, its more about defensive capability rather than offensive.

yeah, that's what I meant. a High 1-B need to be able to utterly decimate the concept of ladder to be qualify as tier 1-A.
MeleeniumRXJ said:
Okay so how would a High 1-B (or really any lower tier) be upgraded to 1-A? What are some things they would have to do? And to avoid an oversimplified answer, I'd like something other than "killing an established 1-A character".
Click to expand...
well, FateAlbane said that destruction of dimensional structures is irrelevant to tier 1-A. so the feat needed would have nothing to do with infinite dimensional destruction.

as for 'what kind of feat then?' question, well idk :p .
 
Actually, I'm pretty sure that the Throne = existence/non-existence, which is why Gods are transdual, and the Singularity where they fight is the "outerverse".

Might be wrong there though.
 
You know what else I don't quite understand? This may warrent its own thread, but I don't quite understand why being higher dimensional automatically = superior to lower dimensional. This isn't even true in real life.

E.g. the mass of a black hole is zero-dimensional, yet has the power to destroy freakin' stars which are 3-dimensional objects.
 
In terms of sheer magnitude, lower dimensional objects are literally nothing to higher dimensional objects.

A point has no length

A line has no width

A square has no volume

A cube has no hypervolume

Black holes are just screwy and requires someone with more knowledge on the subject than me.

Maybe gravity is a transdimensional force.

High 1-C to High 1-B Blackbeard confirmed
 
Monarch Laciel said:
Black holes are just screwy and requires someone with more knowledge on the subject than me
Click to expand...


I've done a fair amount of study of black holes in my free time. From what I understand, their singularities are in fact zero-dimensional. Yet, black holes are nothing to be laughed at.

Dimensions, from what I understand of them, simply pertain to geometric structure and nothing more. It might be a mistake to invoke qualitative superiority or inferiority based on a character's dimensionality.

Or maybe real life black holes are 1-A ovo

"Maybe gravity is a transdimensional force."

That is an actual scientific theory. It actually serves as an explanation as to why gravity is weaker than the other three fundimental forces.
 
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