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1-A High Elder Gods

SITHISIT

SITHISIT

1,447
126
Weekly made an interesting argument that the High Elder Gods were 1-A. To keep that thread from derailing I'm putting thoughts about it in one small place....

now, commence the debate!


also coming on Thursday with the signature show, azzy disagreeing with this revision!


ok no seriously despite my joking attitude this is meant to be serious.
 
nonononono you can't close this until Thursday I need to see another weekly vs Azzy before then
 
Since it's my thread that sparked this discussion, I'll share my thoughts. I definitely feel like the description of the High Elder Gods can be interpreted as 1-A. But it may not be entirely conclusive.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Should i just save everyone the trouble and close this?
Click to expand...
Given the OPs messages, I can't help but shake the feeling this thread was only made to stir up controversy.
 
no


of course it wasn't


I don't know it's 12 am where I live and I have a basketball game tomorrow so aaaaa
 
I'm not taking part on this, but wasn't this matter debated like 10 times over with the info people currently have, reaching the current classification?
 
I feel like if Weekly of all people who would know SCP better is saying to spare the trouble and close it, the thread sounds kinda eeeeh.
 
Theyre the tier they are now because i was told before that a verse had to be High 1-B in order for there to be 1-A characters, but apparently this isnt the case.
 
in another thread, many seems to be in agreement that you need to be able to be beyond the concept of dimension itself, not infinite dimensional structures.

so unless there's quote about HEG outright saying : "this character is beyond the concept of dimension itself", I think people who didn't agree about HEG being 1-A would still stand by their arguments.

... which is kinda hard to prove imo. because not many fiction came clean about 'beyond concept of dimension' stuff.

there's some exception like taikyoku from masadaverse because it skips whole 'beyond dimensions' thing and go 'unity before duality/transduality' from the start.
 
The High Elder Gods existed before the nothingness before the primordial chaos before the darkness that came before creation, but apparently that just means they transcend the multiverse, not that they existed before dimensions
 
Palaeocene.epoch1 said:
in another thread, many seems to be in agreement that you need to be able to be beyond the concept of dimension itself, not infinite dimensional structures.
so unless there's quote about HEG outright saying : "this character is beyond the concept of dimension itself", I think people who didn't agree about HEG being 1-A would still stand by their arguments.

... which is kinda hard to prove imo. because not many fiction came clean about 'beyond concept of dimension' stuff.

there's some exception like taikyoku from masadaverse because it skips whole 'beyond dimensions' thing and go 'unity before duality/transduality' from the start.
Click to expand...


I don't think any fiction straight up says "X thing is beyond the concept of dimensions it self". It's usually something else that's stated, or something else that happens, and this wiki interprets it as being beyond the concept of dimensions.

And that leads us to this thread, which is debating whether the description of the HEG can be interpreted as 1-A.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
The High Elder Gods existed before the nothingness before the primordial chaos before the darkness that came before creation, but apparently that just means they transcend the multiverse, not that they existed before dimensions
Click to expand...
I think people just aren't convinced of the 'absence' of 'dimensions' in said 'before nothingness'. maybe because it just said 'nothingness', nowhere said about 'no dimension' or somesuch.

even if said nothingness is absent of dimensional concept, there's no guarantee HEG share that outerversal trait, unless if HEG embody said nothingness too.

okay, fair point. but other than that usually it involves being 'source of everything', 'embody nothingness before creation/dimension' or 'beyond all manner of physics/metaphysics'.
 
Palaeocene.epoch1 said:
I think people just aren't convinced of the 'absence' of 'dimensions' in said 'before nothingness'. maybe because it just said 'nothingness', nowhere said about 'no dimension' or somesuch.

even if said nothingness is absent of dimensional concept, there's no guarantee HEG share that outerversal trait, unless if HEG embody said nothingness too.
Click to expand...
They transcend it
 
To quote the Tiering System page:

"Characters that have no dimensional limitations, and are beyond scientific definition, in the realm of metaphysics.

Basically, a being or an object which is outside and beyond all concepts of time and space. This is something completely formless, abstract, metaphysical and transcendental. The usual scale does not make sense against a beyond dimensional object. Such beings can not be affected by destruction within the dimensions of time and space, or physical matter and energy. This "space" in which there is no dimension can be the background for any dimensional space. Within such a beyond dimensional "space", a dimensional structure with any number of dimensions can be placed, because there are no restrictions regarding dimensions.

Note that all tier 1-A characters have qualitative superiority over dimensional structures and concepts. Also, mere capability to exist in a beyond dimensional domain does not qualify a character as a beyond dimensional being."

"Outerverse level: Characters that are beyond all dimensional scale. There are two options in order to qualify for this tier: There should either be a qualitative superiority over infinite dimensions; or the superiority over the concept of dimensions (in general) should be clearly explained."
 
Hence, we need very clear explanations regarding the superiority to the concepts of any degree of scientific definition of time and space as a whole in order to qualify for 1-A.
 
Antvasima said:
Hence, we need very clear explanations regarding the superiority to the concepts of any degree of scientific definition of time and space as a whole in order to qualify for 1-A.
Click to expand...


So is that a no to this thread?
 
I do not know. No proper evidence has been presented.
 
Stuff like this is currently being discussed elsewhere but I'm pretty sure nothing's becoming 1-A. Being some sort of primordial nothingness us not a 1-A feat.
 
You should ask DarkLK, Sera EX, and Azathoth for evaluations about 1-A qualifications.
 
Well, if Azathoth and Sera agree, it should probably be alright,
 
Okay. You can ask him to evaluate it and respond again.
 
Confirming that Azathoth disagreed with it due to being "too vague", and only mentioning time and space but not dimensions.

Sera seemed to still think it was valid but the thread never really concluded or had more discussion.
 
Okay. Noted. It would be best if somebody asks DarkLK to comment there as well.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
When it exists before the concept of dimensions it is
Click to expand...
eh, isn't Neverwere also lacking the concept of dimensions? it comes to extistance because it possesses a Ways which are dimensions itself, hmm?
 
...Or it comes to existence because it possess a Way which exists.

Also, it's important to note that dimensionless =/= above dimensions.
 
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