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Diavolo vs Ikki
- Thread starter Kyschan21
- Start date
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I'm gonna lean towards Diavolo for Tactical's reasons and also ^^^
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Can someone give me a detailed explanation of Time Skip? Do people move or not withing the time skip?EmperorDoom25 said:
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Ok, but Tac's reasons don't count the fact that Diavolo won't sense or see an opponent at all so time skip wouldn't be his 1st move in character. Anything to defend that point?LordUrien935 said:
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Here is an example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihRIsHjpQv0Firephoenixearl said:
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He will either have type 4 or immunity to fate manip. It depends, i will think about it when i make the thread.DMB 1 said:
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When Diavolo activates his time-skip, the actions that would have played during the next 10 seconds are of full display for him to see. No one other than Diavolo (and King Crimson) can move within this phase (which he can use to his advantage to position himself to perform an attack afterwise), and he is pretty much unaffected by everything. Those 10 seconds of times don't exist anymore, and once Diavolo concludes the time-skip/time-erasure, it's like 10 seconds have passed, though they never did: only the results of the action you would have taken during the previously erased 10 seconds remaining, and thus, no one except for Diavolo can remember anything.
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If Ittou Raisetsu is activated, which would be needed for blitzing, and King Crimson skips time, he's going to lose seconds from his 60 seconds.
What Diavolo sees via precog is guaranteed to happen. Ikki cannot help it. If Diavolo sees himself die, he is destined to die. To prevent this, King Crimson's ability exists, to skip the time of death. Ikki is stuck attacking Diavolo's Alternate Future Display and is unable to adjust while King Crimson positions itself for a donutmaker punch.
If Diavolo decides to put some distance, he can because Ikki will be stuck attacking the AFD. This would allow Diavolo to see in 3rd person what's attacking, even if he can't in first person.
King Crimson's ability makes him virtually unblitzable.
Ikki is definitely moving and attacking during time erase. He's losing time. Its not a time stop.
What Diavolo sees via precog is guaranteed to happen. Ikki cannot help it. If Diavolo sees himself die, he is destined to die. To prevent this, King Crimson's ability exists, to skip the time of death. Ikki is stuck attacking Diavolo's Alternate Future Display and is unable to adjust while King Crimson positions itself for a donutmaker punch.
If Diavolo decides to put some distance, he can because Ikki will be stuck attacking the AFD. This would allow Diavolo to see in 3rd person what's attacking, even if he can't in first person.
King Crimson's ability makes him virtually unblitzable.
Ikki is definitely moving and attacking during time erase. He's losing time. Its not a time stop.
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1) Immunity to Fate Manipulation is a NFL, at best it's resistance, and that still wouldn'tsave him unless it's outright type 4 acausalityFirephoenixearl said:
DIavolo's abilities aren't Alternate Future Display, as the latter will show you various possibilities of what could happen, while Diavolo's will show only what will happen.TacticalNuke002 said:
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It is, in a way. It shows what could have been, had King Crimson not erased time to the opponent.
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@Tac
Yeah which is why Ikki is going to use it at the right moment. In a moment when it'll be impossible to act against (he has knowledge after all).
Ok this is becoming tiring you keep dodging the topic. Ikki is invisible to KC and Diavolo completely. Prove me Diavolo and KC's first moves in character when they have to fight an opponent leagues above their own who they cannot even percept is going to be time skip then change hiding spot every 3 seconds stalling. Not to mention they don't even know about IS's weakness of the time limit. Give me a similar case and i'll agree with your "KC uses time stop continuously to hide even though there is nothing KC can do to percieve or fight Ikki".
Precog and Time Skip don't make you unblitzable. Especially since Diavolo's precog seems pretty bad. I though he could see everything in the next 10 seconds, he can apparently only see the result which makes it all the more useless in this fight.
@DMB1
As i said it depends. Idk yet, but if the Desperados don't have to abide by their fate then it's immunity. Fate Manipulation changes someone's fate, but if said fate cannot affect the individual it's useless. Anyway this'll be for the actual CRT.
Yeah which is why Ikki is going to use it at the right moment. In a moment when it'll be impossible to act against (he has knowledge after all).
Ok this is becoming tiring you keep dodging the topic. Ikki is invisible to KC and Diavolo completely. Prove me Diavolo and KC's first moves in character when they have to fight an opponent leagues above their own who they cannot even percept is going to be time skip then change hiding spot every 3 seconds stalling. Not to mention they don't even know about IS's weakness of the time limit. Give me a similar case and i'll agree with your "KC uses time stop continuously to hide even though there is nothing KC can do to percieve or fight Ikki".
Precog and Time Skip don't make you unblitzable. Especially since Diavolo's precog seems pretty bad. I though he could see everything in the next 10 seconds, he can apparently only see the result which makes it all the more useless in this fight.
@DMB1
As i said it depends. Idk yet, but if the Desperados don't have to abide by their fate then it's immunity. Fate Manipulation changes someone's fate, but if said fate cannot affect the individual it's useless. Anyway this'll be for the actual CRT.
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Yeah, Epitaph+Time Erase is an OP combo. Even if Diavolo somehow gets hit during Time erase, once the time erasure finishes he'll be unharmed as the time in which he got damaged got deleted. We explicitly see in his fight against Risotto. The fact that he can spam time erasure without cooldown and that the time limit for Ikki's boost would go down even in erased time is just even more OP
I already voted above for Diavolo, btw.
I already voted above for Diavolo, btw.
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@Triforce
Anything to counter the fact that Diavolo cannot even percieve Ikki?
Anything to counter the fact that Diavolo cannot even percieve Ikki?
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Moving slightly away and checking what's attacking. And spamming the living hell out of time skip while he's at it.
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Diavolo FRA.
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"Moving slightly away" Im assuming you mean once time skip starts.TacticalNuke002 said:
"Checking what's attacking" Yes ofc, cus it's not like im saying "they cannot see or sense Ikki in anyway due to Trackless Step". I mean ofc he just moves a bit to the side and sees, that completely nulls trackless step.
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Ikki's going to be attacking the spot where Diavolo was standing a few seconds ago. Surely, he would notice something?
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The fact that even then he can still see the damage done to his body. As we see in his fight against Risotto, when he sees his head exploding without anything seemingly hitting it, his first instinct was to time erase the time when he got hit.Firephoenixearl said:
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@Tac
Nope, KC wouldn't see anything, even then. Ikki would still be undetectable by both.
@Tri
It's a different case when you don't even know your opponent.
Nope, KC wouldn't see anything, even then. Ikki would still be undetectable by both.
@Tri
It's a different case when you don't even know your opponent.
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If Diavolo sees himself die, he's obviously not going to let it happen. Whether he knows the enemy or not.
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That doesn't somehow make it in character for him to spam time skip and hide.TacticalNuke002 said:
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He literally was doing it in his first appearance.
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Though that's basically the only thing he has ever done.
He hides in his fight against Bruno and he's stealthy in his fight for the Requiem Arrow.
He hides in his fight against Bruno and he's stealthy in his fight for the Requiem Arrow.
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Bruno wasn't an invisible dude KC had 0 knowledge on though. Even running to hide could result in going to hide right next to Ikki in this case as he cannot detect Ikki's presence.TacticalNuke002 said:
You can't run away from something you don't know where it is.
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If he hides near Ikki and sees himself dead again, he just erases time again.
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His profile doesn't mention invisibility.
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And Ikki can't hit someone he doesn't know where he is. Since's going to be attacking at the spot where Diavolo was standing for some time.
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Hmm ok then Diavolo should take this.
Ikki is going to be upgraded to 8-A soon though, so i'll leave it up to you whether you wanna add this or not. Adding and removing this seems like useless work though.
Ikki is going to be upgraded to 8-A soon though, so i'll leave it up to you whether you wanna add this or not. Adding and removing this seems like useless work though.
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8-A? Seriously? Geez.
Well, I suppose my vote's back on Diavolo. Dang that's an OP JoJo character.
Well, I suppose my vote's back on Diavolo. Dang that's an OP JoJo character.
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Switching my vote back to Diavolo FRA, then.
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Ok i suppose this could be here just for the funzies. We can close this when the CRT gets accepted.
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Yeah cus he beat both Stella Vermillio and Ouma Kurogane. To even damage stella he'd need 8-A AP. And by dmg her i mean he 1 shotted her.
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Can you link the blog or CRT where 8-A Rakudai characters have been confirmed? Sorry, I get sick of people claiming upgrade is happening without saying where the upgrades are happening from.
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I will be making the CRT shortly. The CRT is not up yet, which is why im not saying "close this Ikki stomps". I will give you a link once i make the CRT though.
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Nah he 1 shotted Dragon Nest Stella who is 8-A. There are a lot of unstable stats that i need to fix though.Huesito88 said:
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"At least Building level with her subconscious magical barriers (Able to survive the power of her own attacks and blocked a direct strike from base Ikki), City Block level with Empress Dress | At least Large Building level (Tanked Ouma's attacks without any major injuries), at least City Block level with Empress Dress (Should be more durable than before)"
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Okay, thanks.
