Dialga + Palkia/Cyrus Downgrade

[GyroNutz]

As linked on Cyrus' profile, being kept in a Pokeball limits Dialga and Palkia's true power. However, when we consider Cyrus' goal was to create a new universe without emotion and destroy the current one; a Low 2-C feat.

"I seek the power to create a new world, a world without strife. However that power seems to be unavailable here... We've met before, yes? It was at Mt. Coronet. If you discover any power derived from the legends of Sinnoh, inform me. For that power is what I need to create my new world."

However, he deemed Dialga and Palkia sealed in Pokeballs to be insufficient for this task. So he went through all the trouble of capturing the lake trio to use Dialga and Palkia's unrestricted power, because Dialga and Palkia in pokeballs aren't strong enough to perform a Low 2-C feat.

I suggest that Cyrus' Low 2-C key is changed to unknown, or removed.

 

[Epsilon_R]

Don't mind me, I'm just Following

 

[NeoZex6399]

It is implied in USUM that Dialga or Palkia are still capable of altering the world even if they are in a pokéball:

"...My name is Cyrus. I would like to ask you one question. Is this world the new world?"
"I can sense in you the strong desire to protect... something. You have a powerful spirit. ...That must mean this isn't the world I desired. I used the power of the Pokémon that control time and space to create a perfect world, where the human spirit does not exist. That was when a great shadow appeared and engulfed me... And brought me to this world."
"Is that a Pokédex...? May I have a look?"
"Interesting... In this world, even the Pokédex is..."
"... ... ... ... ... ... ...I see. So you have a spirit, as well. But it's too late... All too late. I cannot stop now. I must remove the weak, incomplete human spirit from this world and bring it perfection!"
"...I see. ...You need not worry, Rotom. I will not do anything to this world. I believe I shall return to the perfect world I created. But before that...take this key."
"Use it to activate the machine on the wall behind me. That should open the mirror door."
"Had I met you sooner...would things have been different for me...?"

 

[GyroNutz]

That could have still been with an unsealed Palkia/Dialga. Nothing there really implies Palkia/Dialga is still capable of that within a Pokeball.

 

[NeoZex6399]

Cyrus has already captured Dialga/Palkia in USUM, so they are already weakened, however Cyrus claimed that he basically intended to do the same thing he did with his native reality with the player's world.

 

[GyroNutz]

"I must remove the weak, incomplete human spirit from this world and bring it perfection!"

That's vague at best imo

 

[NeoZex6399]

I mean, you know how Cyrus was trying to remove all the spirit in Gen 4, right?

Although we can consider that given that Dialga/Palkia are weaker in a Pokéball , the way they would eliminate the spirit in USUM would be something more "specific".

 

[GyroNutz]

But he had two options. He could either reform the current world without spirit, or create a new one. He felt that the last option would work better in gen 4. Here, he appears to be considering the first option, and the only one of the two that wouldn't require Low 2-C levels of power.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Honestly, the whole "Pokeballs weaken them" equaling anything below 2-B in the first place doesn't make any sense to me.

Just because the pokeballs weaken them doesnt suddenly mean Dialga and Palkia drop 2 tiers of infinity in power. And with also factoring in the fact that the CT have still used 2-B power while weakened before, im honestly wondering why Cyrus can't just be 2-B in general when using these 2.

 

[GyroNutz]

The OP says it all. Cyrus needed the red chain to utilise Dialga and Palkia's full power because simply capturing Dialga and Palkia wouldn't be enough to create a new universe (Low 2-C feat). He even gave away a master ball because he knew it wouldn't be enough, so it'd be pointless to hang onto.

 

[NeoZex6399]

Without the red chain Cyrus cannot summon Dialga or Palkia tbh

 

[GyroNutz]

There'd be no reason for Cyrus to comment on pokeballs making Dialga and Palkia weaker if it didn't infringe his plan.

 

[GyroNutz]

bump

 

[DontTalkDT]

The op sounds plausible.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

The OP says it all. Cyrus needed the red chain to utilise Dialga and Palkia's full power because simply capturing Dialga and Palkia wouldn't be enough to create a new universe (Low 2-C feat). He even gave away a master ball because he knew it wouldn't be enough, so it'd be pointless to hang onto.

This is because, like Neo said, Cyrus cannot summon them into the lower world without using the Red Chain in general. Something which no pokeball can do. So there wouldnt be any point in having them when by the time he summons them with the red chain, they are already captured.

 

[GyroNutz]

There'd be no reason for Cyrus to comment on pokeballs making Dialga and Palkia weaker if it didn't infringe his plan.

 

[GyroNutz]

bump

 

[GyroNutz]

bump

 

[GyroNutz]

bump

 

[GyroNutz]

bump

 

[Antvasima]

This seems fine.

 

[GyroNutz]

bump

 

[Antvasima]

You can ask other staff and experienced members listed in the Pokémo verse page to comment here if you wish.

 

[GyroNutz]

Alright

 

[Antvasima]

Thanks.

 

[Madotsuki24]

The OP says it all. Cyrus needed the red chain to utilise Dialga and Palkia's full power because simply capturing Dialga and Palkia wouldn't be enough to create a new universe (Low 2-C feat). He even gave away a master ball because he knew it wouldn't be enough, so it'd be pointless to hang onto.

Yes, because that's PIS. This is the same game where an ordinary ten year old kid can freely move in the Distortion World, where it's meant to keep you frozen in time that even Dialga and Palkia cannot escape from and they have resistance to time manipulation. Pokémon literally doesn't care about whether it's consistent or not. If this wasn't PIS, then Cyrus wouldn't even be able to perceive Dialga and Palkia because they are both 4D and Cyrus is 3D.

 

[GyroNutz]

What? Just because there's PIS elsewhere doesn't mean that this must be PIS. Dialga/Palkia sealed in a pokeball have zero feats, and a large part of the plot is about Team Galactic forming the red chain.

 

[Madotsuki24]

Then the Red Chain and Cyrus scales to Dialga and Palkia. You don't scale down, you scale up.

 

[GyroNutz]

That isn't always true, and if I was you I'd avoid that attitude. But Cyrus controlling Dialga and/or Palkia with the Red Chain is already 2-B. He controlled them with said Red Chain to perform a Low 2-C feat, and the only reason he needed to make the red chain was because a pokeball limits Dialga/Palkia's full power, implying they wouldn't be able to perform the Low 2-C feat.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

It's worth noting, that if the event is considered canon, Arceus was capable of remaking/creating a universe (seemingly) and creating an avatar/new member of the creation trio while captured in a Poke Ball.

So if Dialga and Palkia are limited by Poke balls, Arceus is seemingly Low 2-C to 2-B, even when restricted by a Poke Ball.

 

[GyroNutz]

Maybe Arceus has some sort of resistance to power null then?

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Possible, or Arceus is just so much more powerful than Dialga or Palkia, that its power is Low 2-C to 2-B even when restricted.

 

[PaChi2]

Op sounds plausible.

Unknown rating it is.

 

[The_Prince_of_Counters]

I agree with the OP.

 

[Antvasima]

Somebody should ask Cal to comment here.