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Devil May Cry Discussion Thread

Drite77 said:
It would involve axing most of the things in Demon Physiology (Probably even the page itself and never remake it again) as I believe several of those abilities to be wanked and it is not worth the headache of going through everything just to fix the pages
Click to expand...
Nah, no need for axing that. I meant that you should help out in fixing the existing profile pages—leave the physiology shit to Tony and Tanin.
 
Drite77 said:
What is going to be kept or altered? Or do you not know yet?
Click to expand...
Most things will exist, there will be additions, but not everyone or everything will scale to everything.

Demon Phys if done right would clarify who scales to what hax to what degree.

That's basically the gist.
 
Tanin_iver said:
Most things will exist, there will be additions, but not everyone or everything will scale to everything.

Demon Phys if done right would clarify who scales to what hax to what degree.

That's basically the gist.
Click to expand...
The properties of Underworld will remain specific to it. Everything else that relates to Demonic Energy in general will be there. @Drite77

For example, Gravity manipulation is not part of DE but rather the specific characteristic of Nirvana dimension. Same with law shit and so on. Time travel is also utilization of DE to open portal rather then passive side effect.
 
SuperSonicTL said:
Nah, no need for axing that. I meant that you should help out in fixing the existing profile pages—leave the physiology shit to Tony and Tanin.
Click to expand...
Thing is that I don't really work on fixing profiles who'll have so many things I disagree with
 
What are the topics where we disagree about this verse scaling-wise btw?
Given all the debates and divergent opinions that have taken place in this thread, I think that the next revisions and upgrades will be very complicated lol
 
Its not like upgrades are coming in the next months anyways.

The main task is finishing all the reworks and putting the verse back to peak performance condition.

After that we can start the wank with full force, hopefully we get tier 1 when it all ends.
 
Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
What are the topics where we disagree about this verse scaling-wise btw?
Given all the debates and divergent opinions that have taken place in this thread, I think that the next revisions and upgrades will be very complicated lol
Click to expand...
If you mean me, I probably won't participate, like I said before, not worth the headache
 
vsbattles.com

Devil May Cry: Lady's profile rework

Hello, it is not secret that Lady's current profile is bad, to say the least, it lacks several things, references, scans, and descriptions of certain abilities, and the abilities who do get a description, it is often plagiarized from the Devil May Cry wiki, so I took the part of actually trying...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
Netoriman said:
G1 came to over 400 quadrillion for the Mundus creation speed feat, is it applicable over your 200 quadrillion, as in reckon it would get accepted here?
It's from the Vergil/Galactic knight blog this January.

Click to expand...

The calc is the same more or less, they have just taken 3 seconds as the timeframe for the creation feat while @Random-Helper323 used the more accurate 5.84 second time frame as depicted in the scene.
 
Netoriman said:
G1 came to over 400 quadrillion for the Mundus creation speed feat, is it applicable over your 200 quadrillion, as in reckon it would get accepted here?
It's from the Vergil/Galactic knight blog this January.

Click to expand...

Tanin_iver said:
The calc is the same more or less, they have just taken 3 seconds as the timeframe for the creation feat while @Random-Helper323 used the more accurate 5.84 second time frame as depicted in the scene.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I saw that calculation. I don't know where they got their timeframe from. I got my timeframes from running the video frame by frame and measuring the timeframe exactly. They might have shortened the timeframe due to the scene seeming to be in slow motion.
 
Last edited:
we are halfway there boys
vsbattles.fandom.com

Tony di bugalu/demon physiology

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

ill fix the references then add a couple of new tabs for the sparda and soul stuff and ill make a thread to change it, after that we can start working on adding the demonic energy and the metaphysical/name stuff

Also, the pending changes to the regeneration stuff
 
Tony_di_bugalu said:
ill fix the references then add a couple of new tabs for the sparda and soul stuff and ill make a thread to change it, after that we can start working on adding the demonic energy and the metaphysical/name stuff
Click to expand...
Nice.
Don't forget to add this. For the justification of the limited resistance to name manipulation in my thread, I think I'll give more precision like this: (Manipulating the demons' names only affects their physical statistics, not their powers and abilities: The demons that had their names removed by Sparda were immobile because they were nameless but they could still used their powers on Dante and Vergil. When Dante renamed himself as such after changing his name since his mother's death, he became stronger and faster, implying that changing your real name makes you less powerful.)
Tony_di_bugalu said:
Also, the pending changes to the regeneration stuff
Click to expand...
Speaking of which, I hope this thing gets removed or there's some better justification:
Enhanced Regeneration (Mid-Godly; Mundus was able to come back after being completely destroyed by a bloodlusted Dante, who's able to target not only the physical body of his opponents, but also their mind and soul)
Click to expand...
Because it just says Mundus ran away and he was still badly wounded when he came back. There is no regeneration feat for Mundus here.

Also, I have a suggestion, what if we made a page for the Sparda Bloodline like was done for the Belmonts?
 
Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
Also, I have a suggestion, what if we made a page for the Sparda Bloodline like was done for the Belmonts?
Click to expand...
We could add this as a justification for the regeneration of the Sparda bloodline
Regeneration (High Godly - Conceptual: Nero's body and soul regenerated after being melted by the Savior. The soul is the very essence of demons, and their essence is superior to their name which is a representation of the being itself, serving as a model of their true nature.)
 
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Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
Don't forget to add this. For the justification of the limited resistance to name manipulation in my thread, I think I'll give more precision like this: (Manipulating the demons' names only affects their physical statistics, not their powers and abilities: The demons that had their names removed by Sparda were immobile because they were nameless but they could still used their powers on Dante and Vergil. When Dante renamed himself as such after changing his name since his mother's death, he became stronger and faster, implying that changing your real name makes you less powerful.)
Click to expand...
Btw, I was just going through this CRT, and I am not even sure what it's trying to argue regarding Names.

Demons just have an unconventional resistance to conceptual manipulation like changing their names as they can still persist and function fine without them or even with different names. The whole reason the nameless Demons in the managa are unable to move or be at their peak is one, they are sealed by Sparda and two those may not even be the peak of their power and abilities that you are trying to argue, they are just able to use some attacks.
While naturally occuring nameless Demons like the Nobodies can function just fine even without it like having limited immunity to concept erasure.
 
Tanin_iver said:
Btw, I was just going through this CRT, and I am not even sure what it's trying to argue regarding Names.

Demons just have an unconventional resistance to conceptual manipulation like changing their names as they can still persist and function fine without them or even with different names. The whole reason the nameless Demons in the managa are unable to move or be at their peak is one, they are sealed by Sparda and two those may not even be the peak of their power and abilities that you are trying to argue, they are just able to use some attacks.
While naturally occuring nameless Demons like the Nobodies can function just fine even without it like having limited immunity to concept erasure.
Click to expand...
Could be second layer of conceptual manipulation since you can remove names but it barely means much to their soul and so?
 
Tanin_iver said:
Demons just have an unconventional resistance to conceptual manipulation like changing their names as they can still persist and function fine without them or even with different names. The whole reason the nameless Demons in the managa are unable to move or be at their peak is one, they are sealed by Sparda and two those may not even be the peak of their power and abilities that you are trying to argue, they are just able to use some attacks.
While naturally occuring nameless Demons like the Nobodies can function just fine even without it like having limited immunity to concept erasure.
Click to expand...
Arkham and the Mad Hatter insist that demons are immobile because they are nameless "a nameless demon cannot even act on its own wishes". If their names didn't matter, they wouldn't bother asking Dante and Vergil to rename them. When Vergil allows one of these nameless demons to choose its name, that demon chooses the name "Pride" and can move again.
Nobodies are a special case because they date back to DMC1 game so before name stuff was established in the verse in the novel and DMC3 manga, and they never had names to begin with so they are definitely outliers
 
I think we've been skipping over fundamental nature of the demons, that evil is a reflection. Name is quite important, but DMC has always been reflections. I'd like to share my idea and an analysis from the fan base. It was very interesting.
 
SuperSonicTL said:
Could be second layer of conceptual manipulation since you can remove names but it barely means much to their soul and so?
Click to expand...
Ehh, not quite, it's more like how in some verses, certain entities can exist without their physical bodies and just with their souls or how some others can exist without their physical body or even their soul, just with their concept. But, in DMC Soul is kinda more fundamental and can exist independently from Soul or concept. That's about it really. It can be a bit unintuitive to some people as such an order is less common in fiction.

Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
Arkham and the Mad Hatter insist that demons are immobile because they are nameless "a nameless demon cannot even act on its own wishes". If their names didn't matter, they wouldn't bother asking Dante and Vergil to rename them. When Vergil allows one of these nameless demons to choose its name, that demon chooses the name "Pride" and can move again.
Click to expand...
Truncating it and leaving out the whole context ehhh.

From the Vergil and Arkham interaction in your scans -
  • To take away their Names is to have complete control over them.
  • To take away Names.... only Sparda could accomplish that.
  • He was a powerful Demon unrivaled in strength. Compared to him the lesser demons would be nothing more than infants. Furthermore, he possessed an intelligence unmatched by ordinary Demonkind.
  • But a nameless demon cannot even act on its own wishes. They are prisoners unable to fulfill our desires. The bindings placed by Sparda are truly a hindrance.
From the Dante and Mad Hatter interaction in your scans -
  • Even such powerful Demons were unable to acquire a Name for two thousand years.
  • You are Sparda's Son. Release him...
  • He's suffered for such a long time.
Well, the whole interaction keeps re-emphasizing that because of a powerful Demon like Sparda who has taken away their Names and bind/seal them, they are unable to acquire their Names or even move for that matter. Finally, Dante and Vergil are asked to name them cos they are the Sons of Sparda and they have the ability to do so.
Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
Nobodies are a special case because they date back to DMC1 game so before name stuff was established in the verse in the novel and DMC3 manga, and they never had names to begin with so they are definitely outliers
Click to expand...
Well Nobodies are not applicable here because their names were not taken away by a powerful demon like Sparda, they always just existed without it. So, not the same case.
 
Last edited:
Marosuke said:
I think we've been skipping over fundamental nature of the demons, that evil is a reflection. Name is quite important, but DMC has always been reflections. I'd like to share my idea and an analysis from the fan base. It was very interesting.
Click to expand...

Bro are you trying to cook some reflection/emanation from Platonic forms type shit.
 
Tanin_iver said:
Truncating it and leaving out the whole context ehhh.

From the Vergil and Arkham interaction in your scans -
  • To take away their Names is to have complete control over them.
  • To take away Names.... only Sparda could accomplish that.
  • He was a powerful Demon unrivaled in strength. Compared to him the lesser demons would be nothing more than infants. Furthermore, he possessed an intelligence unmatched by ordinary Demonkind.
  • But a nameless demon cannot even act on its own wishes. They are prisoners unable to fulfill our desires. The bindings placed by Sparda are truly a hindrance.
From the Dante and Mad Hatter interaction in your scans -
  • Even such powerful Demons were unable to acquire a Name for two thousand years.
  • You are Sparda's Son. Release him...
  • He's suffered for such a long time.
Well, the whole interaction keeps re-emphasizing that because of a powerful Demon like Sparda who has taken away their Names and bind/seal them, they are unable to move and or do much. Even Dante is asked to name them cos he is the Son of Sparda
Click to expand...
I don't understand how that contradicts what I said tbh.

The demon who named himself Pride was able to move precisely because Vergil allowed him to choose a name. Vergil didn't remove any seals before that, he just said to him "I don't know your name so choose it yourself", the demon named himself Pride and the statue that covered his body was destroyed.

Arkham made it clear that "a nameless demon cannot even act on its own wishes." Here he is talking about demons in general and not just those specifically because he said "a nameless demon," not "these nameless demons."
 
Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
I don't understand how that contradicts what I said tbh.
Click to expand...
Ok, let me help you.
Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
Arkham made it clear that "a nameless demon cannot even act on its own wishes."
Click to expand...
Ok.
Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
the demon named himself Pride and the statue that covered his body was destroyed.
Click to expand...
But, how? Isn't a nameless demon unable to act?
Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
The demon who named himself Pride was able to move precisely because Vergil allowed him to choose a name
Click to expand...
Ohk, but why did Vergil have to allow him tho. Can't he do it without him allowing.
What is the act of allowing by Vergil here?
Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
Vergil didn't remove any seals before that, he just said to him "I don't know your name so choose it yourself", the demon named himself Pride and the statue that covered his body was destroyed
Click to expand...
Ok, then what did Vergil do here exactly, what is this act of allowing, why did Vergil have to do that act for the Demon to name itself?
Please ponder and let me know your answer.
Here's a hint-
Arkham: The bindings placed by Sparda are truly a hindrance.

Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
Here he is talking about demons in general and not just those specifically because he said "a nameless demon," not "these nameless demons."
Click to expand...
The original raws were in JP
The entire conversation is about Demons whose names have been taken away(specifically by someone powerful like Sparda)and not about nameless Demons in general because there is no mention of such naturally nameless demons in the entire conversation.

Tanin_iver said:
  • To take away their Names is to have complete control over them.
  • To take away Names.... only Sparda could accomplish that.
  • He was a powerful Demon unrivaled in strength. Compared to him the lesser demons would be nothing more than infants. Furthermore, he possessed an intelligence unmatched by ordinary Demonkind.
  • But a nameless demon cannot even act on its own wishes. They are prisoners unable to fulfill our desires. The bindings placed by Sparda are truly a hindrance.
Click to expand...
 
Tanin_iver said:
But, how? Isn't a nameless demon unable to act?
Click to expand...
He just spoke to rename himself, he didn't move, so yes he didn't act.


Tanin_iver said:
Ohk, but why did Vergil have to allow him tho. Can't he do it without him allowing.
What is the act of allowing by Vergil here?
Click to expand...
Vergil doesn't know the demon's name, that's why he allowed him to choose it himself.


Tanin_iver said:
Ok, then what did Vergil do here exactly, what is this act of allowing, why did Vergil have to do that act for the Demon to name itself?
Please ponder and let me know your answer.
Here's a hint-
Arkham: The bindings placed by Sparda are truly a hindrance.
Click to expand...
I know what you mean now (I think?). It's that name manipulation acts directly on the sealing and not on the demons themselves.

Tanin_iver said:
The entire conversation is about Demons whose names have been taken away(specifically by someone powerful like Sparda)and not about nameless Demons in general because there is no mention of such naturally nameless demons in the entire conversation.
Click to expand...
Even with this context, the fact that Arkham said "a nameless demon can't move" means he was talking about a specificity of demons in general, not just those in Temen-Ni-Gru, otherwise he would have said "these nameless demons can't move".

The fact that the demons' names mean so much to them also supports the fact that name manipulation affects them directly.
 
Marosuke said:
I think we've been skipping over fundamental nature of the demons, that evil is a reflection. Name is quite important, but DMC has always been reflections. I'd like to share my idea and an analysis from the fan base. It was very interesting.
Click to expand...

I seen a scan describing Argosax in that card. Is it canon?

Cause it would be useful.
 
Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
He just spoke to rename himself, he didn't move, so yes he didn't act.
Click to expand...
Wait, are you trying to imply speaking is not even an act and only moving is an act?

Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
Vergil doesn't know the demon's name, that's why he allowed him to choose it himself.
Click to expand...
You skipped the part where I asked, why can't the Demon name himself even without allowing it?
Why does Vergil even have to allow him?
I understand that Vergil doesn't know his Name. But if the Demon knows his Name, why didn't he Name himself, why did he have to wait for 2000 years for someone like Vergil to come and allow him.
What is this allowing? Why is allowing even required?

Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
I know what you mean now (I think?). It's that name manipulation acts directly on the sealing and not on the demons themselves.
Click to expand...
Where did you even get that implication I am not sure?
What I meant all this time is that binding/sealing is why Demons lack the autonomy to do as they wish. They could have named themselves, but a powerful Demon like Sparda has taken their Name and in turn sealed them.
Naming and sealing are different things. Vergil's act of allowing is what I meant by unsealing.
If name manip acted on sealing directly then they can act and unseal themselves just by naming themselves which makes no sense why they had to wait 2000 years for someone like Vergil.

Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
Even with this context, the fact that Arkham said "a nameless demon can't move" means he was talking about a specificity of demons in general, not just those in Temen-Ni-Gru, otherwise he would have said "these nameless demons can't move".

The fact that the demons' names mean so much to them also supports the fact that name manipulation affects them directly.
Click to expand...
Well if it did not mean that contextually and according to what you are interpreting, then it would contradict existing lore like the Nobodies who are naturally nameless.
According to my interpretation there would be no contradictions in the existing lore but if we go with your take it would and we have to unnecessarily disregard natural demons like Nobodies.
 
Tanin_iver said:
Wait, are you trying to imply speaking is not even an act and only moving is an act?
Click to expand...
In this context yes.

Tanin_iver said:
You skipped the part where I asked, why can't the Demon name himself even without allowing it?
Why does Vergil even have to allow him?
I understand that Vergil doesn't know his Name. If the Demon knows his Name, why didn't he Name himself, why did he have to wait for 2000 years for someone like Vergil to come and allow him.
What is this allowing? Why is allowing even required?
Click to expand...
Because they can't name themselves without the action of Sparda and his lineage.

Tanin_iver said:
Where did you even get that implication I am not sure?
What I meant all this time is that binding/sealing is why Demons lack the autonomy to do as they wish. They could have named themselves, but a powerful Demon like Sparda has taken their Name and in turn sealed them.
Naming and sealing are different things. Vergil's act of allowing is what I meant by unsealing.
If name manip acted on sealing directly then they can act and unseal themselves just by naming themselves which makes no sense why they had to wait 2000 years for someone like Vergil.
Click to expand...
I also don't see how you come to that conclusion when we don't see Vergil unsealed anything in the scene. If Vergil and Dante just have to unseal them so they can rename themselves just why do Arkham, Mad Hatter and the nameless demons ask them to give them their names?

Tanin_iver said:
Well if it did not mean that contextually and according to what you are interpreting, then it would contradict existing lore like the Nobodies who are naturally nameless.
According to my interpretation there would be no contradictions in the existing lore but if we go with your take it would and we have to unnecessarily disregard natural demons like Nobodies.
Click to expand...
In that case, why don't the Nobodies name themselves?
 
Marosuke said:
It was developed by Capcom and GungHo. So TEPPEN would be the secondary canon on this wiki. As long as it describes about the existing canon, I think it should be fine. It's accessible on Google Play Games and we can check the scans.
Click to expand...
Teppen is a crossover card game...what stops other Capcom franchises to use info from there if DMC gets a pass, it isnt gonna be accepted as secondary canon, especially since crossovers need evidence of being canon to the parties involved
 
BlackDarkness679 said:
Teppen is a crossover card game...what stops other Capcom franchises to use info from there if DMC gets a pass, it isnt gonna be accepted as secondary canon, especially since crossovers need evidence of being canon to the parties involved
Click to expand...
Well it's just a description of the character's lore so maybe it will be accepted
 
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