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Devil May Cry Discussion Thread

Best you can argue as compromise is that Nero equals them both in best shape currently or at least Nero is near their power, why you acting like he has to surpass them in that very moment, you talking a what if scenario going against Nero character growth while also ignoring the fact they are exhausted

Goku in the tournament of power was a target after exhausting himself for a reason, easy target and takes out a strong opponent without the trouble of handling him later at his peak, it is what is at the end of the day
 
It’s especially crazy when you have like two examples, one in game and one prior, dedicated to showing you “When exhausted, they’re substantially easier to beat.”

Vergil went from capable of one-shotting Arkham and incapable of being hurt by him to getting bodied by Arkham (alongside Dante AND Lady).

When Dante was exhausted, Vergil, Dante’s DIRECT equal, literally easily parried his attacks and sent him flying.

Like, actual, objective evidence says Nero got a much easier fight than Dante did. Something that matches the presentation of the fight, too.
 
BlackDarkness679 said:
Dude you literally missed my point, Nero despite fighting exhausted Dante and Vergil, still managed to put up a fight to one of them, let alone injure, which would scale him above even a demon lord level character

As such Nero is powerful enough to handle any kind of demon threat that comes on the human world
Click to expand...
Because your argument misses the point of the scene. Nero wasn't trying to save someone from powerful demons, he wanted to stop Dante and Vergil from killing each other, and according to most here Nero only managed to do that because they were tired and if they weren't Nero would have lost.

The problem with this thinking is that Nero's character development is ruined because despite everything that happened he still couldn't muster enough strength to save the people he cares about.

Nero managed to stop Dante and Vergil from killing each other yes, but if he had arrived earlier he would not have succeeded according to what is accepted, and if later Dante and Vergil do it again in full form (something that will happen but it's so that you understand my point) Nero would be unable to stop them too because he is still weaker than them according to what is accepted. So it's a problem for character development, storytelling, etc.
 
BlackDarkness679 said:
Best you can argue as compromise is that Nero equals them both in best shape currently or at least Nero is near their power, why you acting like he has to surpass them in that very moment, you talking a what if scenario going against Nero character growth while also ignoring the fact they are exhausted

Goku in the tournament of power was a target after exhausting himself for a reason, easy target and takes out a strong opponent without the trouble of handling him later at his peak, it is what is at the end of the day
Click to expand...
RedReaper616 said:
It’s especially crazy when you have like two examples, one in game and one prior, dedicated to showing you “When exhausted, they’re substantially easier to beat.”

Vergil went from capable of one-shotting Arkham and incapable of being hurt by him to getting bodied by Arkham (alongside Dante AND Lady).

When Dante was exhausted, Vergil, Dante’s DIRECT equal, literally easily parried his attacks and sent him flying.

Like, actual, objective evidence says Nero got a much easier fight than Dante did. Something that matches the presentation of the fight, too.
Click to expand...
I already know that Dante and Vergil were exhausted. Normally I would have absolutely accepted that Nero was not superior to Dante and Vergil because he only faced and beat them while they were already exhausted from a fight. Except that here I do not agree with that because it conflicts with the narration and the character development. For me it proves that even if Dante and Vergil were not exhausted, the result would have been the same.
 
Okay and what is your solution? To have Nero be scaled to them fully despite the canon establishing its not?

You are way too fixated on a what if scenario here and willing to ignore the canon for the growth to make sense

Also again you miss the point, there is literally no threat to put his loved ones in danger, Dante and Vergil are the strongest characters and went away, Nero has the power to protect and save everyone
 
It makes no sense to assume Nero surpasses them just cuz Nero growth is ruined for not beating them, you in turn ignore the canon narrative there to fit your what if scenario

The fact that a single devil trigger gave him a jump from like tier 4 to tier 2 in a shorter time still fits with Nero having more potential later down the line if they were to meet again

I pointed earlier, Nero = Dante = Vergil at best or Nero ~ Dante = Vergil
 
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Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
Dante was already hunting demons before the game started and went to open Devil May Cry, and he went to take care of the mess made by his brother from the beginning of the game so he clearly wanted to stop the demons. His discussion with Lady only means that he didn't care about family matters at first, because Dante and Lady have a discussion about family before that, not about justice and saving people. Dante already knows about humanity because he is human himself and he has already clearly shown love before DMC3. From his first interaction with Vergil in the game he denies having a father, it is only after this boss fight that he gradually accepts his father and therefore his demonic side.
Click to expand...
  • Dante explicitly tells lady he didn't care about the whole thing at the start
  • DMC 3 Manga profile of Dante tells you he basically kills demons for the love of the game, not because he wants to do good
  • DMC 3 almost slaps you in the face with the fact that Dante only wanted to fight Vergil and practically made a beeline towards him
  • Dante rejects Sparda, his power and likely his philosophy only wanting to throw hands with Vergil for the love of the game

How can you tell me that Dante wanted to take care of the disaster Vergil created when literally everything goes against it?

"And now my brother's trying to break that spell and turn everything into demonville. Quite frankly at first I didn't give a damn."

Bruh, you are literally being presented the dialogue of the game and somehow twisting it into something that is not true.


This is again similar to Nero in DMC4 because the latter did not know at all that he was a demon and when other demons told him that he was one too when seeing his devil bringer Nero did not accept it. It was only after his interaction with Agnus and after having Yamato that Nero accepted his demonic side. Dante also ended up accepting it after being impaled by Rebellion.
Click to expand...

Amazing, you didn't refute anything I said here.

This is the duality between Dante who only accepted his human side and Vergil only his demonic side, and Vergil who ended up losing to Dante in both DMC3 and 1 because he only accepted his demonic side while Dante completely accepted both sides.
Click to expand...

I don't think you are reading my posts.




Also, not entirely unrelated but the fact that everyone here is jumping you should be more than enough to realize you aren't exactly in the right
 
Dayne, I'll narrow this down for you. In order to place Nero above Dante and Vergil you need an actual feat, not a feeling or theory. It doesn't matter how much you reframe it, it's a theory, and one that clashes with the fact Nero worked harder against a more exhausted Vergil than Vergil did against a less exhausted Dante.

Likewise, your theory of Dante not needing the Sparda to beat Mundus clashes not only with the outcome of their fight but with the game outright telling you he doesn't stand a chance without it.
 
Tony_di_bugalu said:
  • Dante explicitly tells lady he didn't care about the whole thing at the start
  • DMC 3 Manga profile of Dante tells you he basically kills demons for the love of the game, not because he wants to do good
  • DMC 3 almost slaps you in the face with the fact that Dante only wanted to fight Vergil and practically made a beeline towards him
  • Dante rejects Sparda, his power and likely his philosophy only wanting to throw hands with Vergil for the love of the game
Click to expand...
Dante kills demons to avenge his mother's death, not just for the love of the game. In the DMC3 manga, we even literally see Dante get angry when Vergil tells him that he's going to open Temen Ni Gru, and Dante then tells him that demons killed their mother and aims his guns at him. Dante wants to prevent his brother from bringing about the apocalypse a year before the game...
Dante's manga profile also confirms that Dante disowns his father, as he will say at the beginning of DMC3 to Vergil a year later.

Tony_di_bugalu said:
How can you tell me that Dante wanted to take care of the disaster Vergil created when literally everything goes against it?

"And now my brother's trying to break that spell and turn everything into demonville. Quite frankly at first I didn't give a damn."

Bruh, you are literally being presented the dialogue of the game and somehow twisting it into something that is not true.
Click to expand...
Dante said that it's thanks to Lady that he now gives a damn. Lady never told him about awakening to justice and killing demons to help people, but just about her family business and that it's up to her to take care of the bullshit done by her father and that Dante "cannot understand family" because he is a demon. Dante wants to kill demons for revenge and justice since his mother died.

The awakening is about Dante who wakes up his inner demon and who acknowledges his father whom he disowned because he hates demons since the death of his mother (just like Vergil who disowned his human side which he considers as a weakness since the incident at the mansion).

Tony_di_bugalu said:
Also, not entirely unrelated but the fact that everyone here is jumping you should be more than enough to realize you aren't exactly in the right
Click to expand...
I'm not even debating DMC3's writing with others, just Nero.
 
BlackDarkness679 said:
Okay and what is your solution? To have Nero be scaled to them fully despite the canon establishing its not?
Click to expand...
Canon has hardly established that Dante and Vergil are still superior to the current Nero. The only argument for this is Random Helper which uses an in-game interaction from a boss fight.

BlackDarkness679 said:
You are way too fixated on a what if scenario here and willing to ignore the canon for the growth to make sense
Click to expand...
I'm literally using one of the most important things in a story (character development) to justify this.

BlackDarkness679 said:
Also again you miss the point, there is literally no threat to put his loved ones in danger, Dante and Vergil are the strongest characters and went away, Nero has the power to protect and save everyone
Click to expand...

I couldn't protect Credo. To this day, I hate myself for not having enough strength. But this time is different. I swear! I'M NOT LETTING YOU DIE!
Click to expand...
According to what is accepted here, if just the timing was different, Nero would have failed to prevent Dante and Vergil from killing each other and therefore this scene could have lost all its point and meaning. The problem is as simple as that.

BlackDarkness679 said:
It makes no sense to assume Nero surpasses them just cuz Nero growth is ruined for not beating them, you in turn ignore the canon narrative there to fit your what if scenario
Click to expand...
Just reread Nero's monologue above. It's the climax of all Nero's character development established since DMC4.
 
Random-Helper323 said:
Dayne, I'll narrow this down for you. In order to place Nero above Dante and Vergil you need an actual feat, not a feeling or theory. It doesn't matter how much you reframe it, it's a theory, and one that clashes with the fact Nero worked harder against a more exhausted Vergil than Vergil did against a less exhausted Dante.
Click to expand...
It's not a theory, it's Nero's character development. If Nero is canonically still inferior to the twins, we just have to accept the fact that his character development is ruined.

Random-Helper323 said:
Likewise, your theory of Dante not needing the Sparda to beat Mundus clashes not only with the outcome of their fight but with the game outright telling you he doesn't stand a chance without it.
Click to expand...
I accept this as canon now because it's blatantly stated in the game like you said, I don't even try to change the scaling on this anymore. But it doesn't change my opinion that it's bullshit writing-wise.
 
Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
It's not a theory, it's Nero's character development.
Click to expand...
... Call it what you want, it's still a theory. If it isn't shown, it's basically a theory.
Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
If Nero is canonically still inferior to the twins, we just have to accept the fact that his character development is ruined.
Click to expand...
His big goal wasn't to be stronger than Dante. It was to be treated as if he can stand on his own. To receive Dante's acknowledgement and be able to handle demon lords himself. It was also his goal to end the sibling death match. His power boost allowed him to achieve these three things. Thus his development was successful.
 
Random-Helper323 said:
His big goal wasn't to be stronger than Dante. It was to be treated as if he can stand on his own. To receive Dante's acknowledgement and be able to handle demon lords himself. It was also his goal to end the sibling death match. His power boost allowed him to achieve these three things. Thus his development was successful.
Click to expand...
His development would not have been successful at all if he hadn't had the right timing. That's the problem with your reasoning, it's just based on timing and you take advantage of that to tell yourself that Nero's development is still intact because he managed to prevent Dante and Vergil from killing each other.

But if Nero had arrived much earlier he would not have succeeded. Dante and Vergil would have killed each other and Nero would have blamed himself even more for not having had enough strength to protect those he cares for once again...
 
Random-Helper323 said:
... Call it what you want, it's still a theory. If it isn't shown, it's basically a theory.
Click to expand...
We see from DMC4 that Nero's goal is to have enough strength to protect those he cares for... but probably like with the case of the Devil Sword Sparda it will never be accepted in a CRT so don't worry I'm not about to change the scaling chain (despite Nero's character development being ruined).
 
BlackDarkness679 said:
The fact that a single devil trigger gave him a jump from like tier 4 to tier 2 in a shorter time still fits with Nero having more potential later down the line if they were to meet again
Click to expand...
It still fit a little yes, but not completely because the power up he received was the most powerful in the verse
 
Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
His development would not have been successful at all if he hadn't had the right timing. That's the problem with your reasoning, it's just based on timing and you take advantage of that to tell yourself that Nero's development is still intact because he managed to prevent Dante and Vergil from killing each other.

But if Nero had arrived much earlier he would not have succeeded. Dante and Vergil would have killed each other and Nero would have blamed himself even more for not having had enough strength to protect those he cares for once again...
Click to expand...
It seemed like his issue was never about superiority to them. It was about being so weak he couldn't deal with a threat himself.

And in truth, they'd have to exhaust each other before they could finish each other off, and neither would want to hurt Nero, so he can always get between them.

I also feel I should point out that Vergil is struggling more than Dante after their six week battle, so I actually think Dante might be stronger, but that's neither here nor there.

Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
Yeah, better stop this debate.
Click to expand...
That's fine.

Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
Call me Hakim btw
Click to expand...
I'm not trying to be rude or anything. I've generally been exposed to using last names more than first.
 
vsbattles.com

El Nonte fights himself

Not sure if this was done or not, but lets see if El Nonte can get past his issues Speed is equalised Dante starts in base and is allowed to go into DT Ditto starts off transformed Fight takes place in the tournament of power arena SBA otherwise Netflix and pizza: 2 Ditto'd: 0 Incon: 0...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
Drite77 said:
vsbattles.com

El Nonte fights himself

Not sure if this was done or not, but lets see if El Nonte can get past his issues Speed is equalised Dante starts in base and is allowed to go into DT Ditto starts off transformed Fight takes place in the tournament of power arena SBA otherwise Netflix and pizza: 2 Ditto'd: 0 Incon: 0...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
Click to expand...
You guys already named him Nonte??

That's new to me
 
He's usually called Nante.

Edit: It could be short for Netflix Dante, Not Dante, Nero as Dante, and probably some other things, so it works.
 
Last edited:
vsbattles.com

Dante (DMC Netflix) vs Billy Kid (Zenless Zone Zero)

Billy Kid (0.0225 Tons): Billy is in character. He has all his weapons. Dante Sparda (0.0716 Tons): ( @Drite77 @Pyro9278 ) Dante is in character. Has all his weapons. Does not have access to his DT forms. The fight takes place at the Raccoon Police Station. They start 10 meters apart. Equal...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
 
Does anyone have any theories on what happened to Sparda?

It's crazy that such an important character in the lore disappeared like that without explanation (even Dante doesn't know a damn thing about it).
 
Ser_Hakim_Dayne said:
Does anyone have any theories on what happened to Sparda?

It's crazy that such an important character in the lore disappeared like that without explanation (even Dante doesn't know a damn thing about it).
Click to expand...
Obvious theory is death (strange given he has no reason to be dead). Other options include facing another evil elsewhere, secretly corrupted, quietly orchestrating things behind the scenes, etcetera.
 
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