Devil May Cry Discussion Thread 9

[Lightning_XXI]

He didn't "stalemated" SDT Dante

"At least 7-A, possibly Low 6-B" should work tho

 

[TheRustyOne]

Sin Devil Trigger Dante was unable to beat Pre Fruit Urizen before his transformation wore off. If he was Low 6-B then he would've one shotted Urizen.

 

[Ogbunabali]

^

 

[DragonEmperor23]

That could be game mechanics. SDT Dante was strong enough to solidly beat Post Urizen and the Fruit was hyped up to be a major boost. Pre Fruit Urizen got beat to the point that he ran away.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

So Low 6-B for pre fruit Urizen for surviving a battle with SDT Dante ?

This would make their scalling chain a little bigger, because the Low 6-B is coming from shaking the world, if Pre Urizen is Low 6-B, then...

- Post Fruit Urizen should be At least Low 6-B

- Dante, Vergil and Nero should be "At least Low 6-B, possibly Higher"

 

[Meshifuari_Arimota]

Let me just ask about V's tier...

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

V tier is gonna be "10-B Physically, 7-B with Shadow, Griffon, and Nightmare"

 

[Ogbunabali]

That could be game mechanics. SDT Dante was strong enough to solidly beat Post Urizen and the Fruit was hyped up to be a major boost. Pre Fruit Urizen got beat to the point that he ran away.

Except Dante didn't solidly beat Post Qliphoth Urizen. Vergil himself said, that Dante was hurt and tired and he needs to heal up if he wants to stand a chance vs Vergil.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Vergil is stronger than PQU. I didn't say Dante stomped him, I said it was solidly in his favor. Urizen was knocked flat on his back and Dante was about to finish it before V stepped in.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

It seems pretty clear to me that Dante (One Month Qliphoth absorption) would already be far stronger than he was in the first fight with Urizen. Stack on Sin Dante who would have been amplified to a ridiculous extent and it's not much of a stretch to claim Current Dante just scales above Post-Fruit Urizen.

This can be seen in cutscenes. Dante managed to force Urizen into retreating with little to no exhaustion on his part. He then travelled to Urizen and beat him to the point of being unable to get up, whereas Dante was shown as not being exhausted and having no wounds.

The implication is quite clear that Sin Dante is far above Urizen's level but he is equally matched with Sin Vergil.

It's interesting to note that, yes, Dante WAS noted as being tired by Vergil but Dante had been constantly travelling and fighting. He even fought Urizen twice with little to no rest in-between but still won with no visible damage. Due to this I consider the scaling chain to follow as:

EoG Dante = EoG Vergil >/= EoG Nero >> Post-Fruit Urizen >> Serious Urizen >> Urizen >> MoG Nero >> BoG Dante >> BoG Nero

 

[Ogbunabali]

The scaling chain is fine. But it's disingenuous the things you said about Urizen and Dante.

Dante didn't force Urizen into retreating, Urizen went to get the Qliphoth fruit, in the fight nether Dante nor Urizen were shown to be physically in pain or tired. Post fruit Urizen Dante was beat up to the point where he was panting and Vergil himself said that he was in no condition to fight and he needed to heal his wounds.

So this notion of Dante fodderizing Urizen is so wrong.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Vergil is stronger than PQU. I didn't say Dante stomped him, I said it was solidly in his favor. Urizen was knocked flat on his back and Dante was about to finish it before V stepped in.

SDT Dante easily snapped Armored Urizen's tendrils and then knocked Urizen backat the end of the fight.

 

[ZERO7772]

Dante did NOT fodderize Urizrn, we went over this already. Vergil's comments us clean proof that the battle that fought against Urizen was a hard one.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

After the battle in both cases, Dante was in base, but the fight against Pre Fruit Urizen was a hard one, Dante was serious in the cutscene despite being in base form

Also, the battle tired Dante to the point that Vergil could easily avoid his attacks

Again, I think we should give them these APs:

- Pre Fruit Urizen - Low 6-B (Survived a battle against Awakened Dante)

- Post Fruit Urizen - At least Low 6-B (Stronger than before, stated to be capable of shaking the world)

- Awakened Dante and Vergil - At least Low 6-B, possibly Higher (Stronger than Urizen after he ate the Fruit)

What you guys think ?

 

[DragonEmperor23]

But then Pre Fruit is low 6-B when he's weaker than Post Fruit who is baseline low 6-B.

 

[PrettyFearMachine]

Shaking the world is Low 6-B though (and near-baseline at that).

Pre-Fruit Urizen would be "At least 7-A, likely far higher".

 

[Sorvoe551]

True DT Nero stopped charging SDT Dante and Vergil, then hit Dante so hard with a casual slap that he commented that it nearly killed him. Then he proceeded to beat Vergil without any major effort, so that should put True DT Nero at the top of the food chain for DMC

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Stopped a dante and vergil which fought for some time to the death and likely tired,not to mention they slapped nero later in the face landing on his ass

 

[PrettyFearMachine]

Stopped a dante and vergil which fought for some time to the death and likely tired,not to mention they slapped nero later in the face landing on his ass

From which he got back up with no trouble, while Dante was knocked down for the entire fight between Nero and Vergil

 

[ZERO7772]

I had enough of this disscusion but one thing, comparing Nero and the twins slap is nonsense.

Nero slap made Dante split out blood, lose his sword grip and even commented that slap nearly killed him and he isn't even in the mood to continue the fight, while Nero took the twin slap with absolutely no damage and was totally fine.

Sure you go can argue the twins were weakened, but Nero absolutely cleaned the house in that mission

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Dante says whatever and that he will sit there before the battle starts,not like Nero knocked him that hard he was unable to get up

Vergil also said he can keep fighting and was still standing up in the cutscene after the fight,he wasnt put on the ground or knocked out

You realize punching someone not at its peak,isnt as impressive as doing it when in top shape,Dante after fighting Urizen clearly tired him,when Vergil appeared he had the upper hand on him and says to heal and get strong before they fight,when they fight they are evenly matched

There is no arguably tired twins,thats a fact in the game,you act like its impressive at all,thats like saying hurting or getting the upper hand against a calm/chill hulk is as impressive as doing it to a extremely pissed and angry one

 

[Dark649]

Ok, from what i noted.

Pre-Fruit Urizen could easily defeat DMC5 Dante, but later he fought said Dante after unlocking his Sin DT, the two fought and while both are not shown to be tired by not using their full power, Urizen likely realized that Dante is stronger and retrieted to get the fruit to boost his power, since Dante still attacked Urizen at least 7-A, likely Low 6-B for Pre-Fruit Urizen might be fine.

After getting the fruit Urizen easily performed his Low 6-B feat while standing, which is why he has the at least, and his power forced Dante to use more of his own and then was able to win by stabbing a vulnerable part such as his main eye to win, so there is not a massive advantage with Urizen and Dante.

After the battle Dante was weakened since Vergil noted that he cannot fight him in such conditions, and tells him to rest and get stronger, later Dante and Vergil are seen to be equal, for Nero he might be stronger than them but its not certain due to the brothers being not in top conditions, so they currently are at least Low 6-B.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

How is Nero stronger when he never fought either of them when at their peak,plus Vergil said it after his fight with him he can still keep up,even though earlier he faced Dante not long ago

 

[Dark649]

Might is used to express uncertainty since both Dante and Vergil were not at 100%, so i'm fine with them being comparable and i'm aware that both of them can defeat Nero.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Good thats all i wanted to hear

 

[Dienomite22]

Doesn't really matter if Vergil says he can still fight when he's the most prideful and stubborn character in the series so of course he would talk but the point is Nero wasn't phased at all after fighting Vergil (I know Vergil is tired but if he was that much stronger than Nero or on the same level as Nero then Nero should be tired and winded but he isn't).Vergil was gased out after fighting Nero as shown with his heavy breathing and grunts which he never displayed even during and after his fight with Dante (he had dirt,dust and some blood on him).Nero is comparable but arguably stronger than the twins which is even hinted at by the title of the mission which is "true power" and both Vergil and Dante always refering back to Nero schooling them in the end credits depending on how good you do and not their fight moments before.

 

[Ogbunabali]

Putting pre fruit Urizen at anything below Low 6-B doesn't make any sense. Since he is somewhat stalemated SDT Dante. It also makes his tier very messy, which is why I removed it in the first place. I don't think there's a reason for Urizen to have two keys, since no one scales to them, and makes his tier hectic for no reason.

If everyone wants to give him a second key, it's fine. But the way I see it the cons overweight the pros with that one.

 

[Meshifuari_Arimota]

(I know Vergil is tired but if he was (...) or on the same level as Nero then Nero should be tired and winded but he isn't).

Well... not quite. Look at Arkham/Jester. He stated that the twins could one shoot him if they werent tired but since they were... he was capable of taking care of them rather easily.

You dont even see them heavily breathing or anything either, they just were fighting for such long time.

I feel like the same rule could apply here. Of course that's just my opinion....

 

[PrettyFearMachine]

I actually recall that Dante was said to obliterate Urizen in both fights after awakening SDT. It was on GDC IIRC.

 

[PrettyFearMachine]

Btw, could we use Offense Heart's x10 multiplier for DMC2 Dante's stats?

 

[PrettyFearMachine]

I actually recall that Dante was said to obliterate Urizen in both fights after awakening SDT. It was on GDC IIRC.

I looked through the conference video, and found the moment.

 

[Camilopezo]

I do not know, Dante was completely exhausted after the fight.


If the fight had been a stomp, Dante would not be so tired.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

I'm not well versed on the lore but is it possible Dante was simply exhausted from using Sin DT? It requires a lot of the DT gauge to fully charge and then he has to stab himself to activate it, he also can't regenerate any health while using it.

 

[ZERO7772]

Well, it's been established already that yes, Dante can't keep SDT for long and the fact that he doesn't regenerate his HP unlike basic DT kinda prove that. Not to mention that animation right after SDT runs out feature Dante falling on his knees.

Speaking of which, the SDT time limit should be listed as one of Dante's weaknesses on his profile.

 

[Dienomite22]

@Meshifuari Arimota

During the cutscenes of Vergil 1 and 2 (also 3 but that one doesn't matter), there was some indication of them getting weaker.

Vergil 1 outright shows Dante and Vergil breathing heavily and Vergil 2 shows the blood they were shedding from fighting each other and Dante and Vergil having trouble getting up when they slice each other.

@CryoTheMayo

It's possible but everything about SDT besides it's time limit seems to be gameplay mechanics seeing as if SDT required that much DT then he wouldn't have gone into SDT right after Nero and Vergil's fight, same with Vergil.

 

[ZERO7772]

New thread:https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2894518