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Devil May Cry Discussion Thread 10

Dante Demon Killah said:
Dante already got a Relativistic calc

Also, Arius's ritual caused a Eclipse likely faster than that one from Castlevania, and that one is 5-A
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure aruis was waiting for the eclipse and didn't cause but I haven't played 2 in a while so I might be wrong
 
The eclipse things needs to be looked into.The eclipse is first mentioned and began when Arius gained the Arcana and that's also when everything was severely warped.
 
Okay, I've re-played both Dante and Lucia's mission up to and a little after the eclipse happens and is mentioned.

The game starts in the afternoon for the first mission but everything after that takes place at night, with various shots of the moon being to the right of Arius's tower(and this is viewable during mission 2 in-game) and it's the only position we know of the moon until mission 9 for Lucia (the scene is only shown in her route) were we see this showing the moon no longer behind Arius's tower but the interesting part is coming up. In mission 10 for Lucia and 14 for Dante we see the Sun and moon suddenly in this position despite the Sun not being visible literally minutes prior due to it being night and now a sudden eclipse is happening, the sky is no longer red, and the entire island is warped drastically.

I don't know what this means or if it's even a feat tbh but it's something.
 
And she says that the ritual was activate because of her, right after Dante saved her from Arius, so yeah, the process began after that

Going by Dante VS Arius, it's pushing the moon really quick

It is a 5-B to 5-A feat
 
I don't know if it's pushing the moon, reality warping the sun and moon or something else entirely but I do know it happened ridiculously fast.
 
The moon moving is more likely to be an effect of Argosax's coming considering this eclipse starts happening right when the distortion/merging starts to become blatant
 
In the 3-A CRT that was discussed, there were various feats that we agreed needed more discussion but which we refrained from, simply because the CRT was going on for far too long already and we didn't want to get sidetracked. These involve a potential 4-A Saviour feat, the 4-C Nightmare feat, and other such feats that needed more discussion. Should I start a thread to discuss those feats specifically? Or should I wait a bit and let everything cool off, since the 3-A thread was just concluded?
 
Dante's Goodwill
Ah, that was fun. Very interesting to try to persuade by considering which interpretation of all the same data makes the most sense; very hard to untangle a case that's had most of its evidence submitted in the past, but in unconvincing piecemeal fashion by those less eloquent than we had with us this time. Glad to see that people don't seem upset about the result; that result being an upgrade is a nice bonus. I hope I was more helpful than annoying, and I thank Reb, DG, Dieno, Paradox, and Kapt'n Kep and company for their insight. Don't know most of you personally, but nicel to meet you, and I think you can handle things nicely. I'm at a pretty uncertain crossroads IRL, yet I'll try to hang out here a bit to chill, and I hope to return this summer having read through most of the Doctor Who EU (to help with pages and help me warm up for heavier reading).

Anyway, Reb and DarkGarth and maybe a few others have my Discord info if you need me. Try to keep from doing anything big for a good while, so as to give others a breather and also let the staff do their thing. Especially Matt with his law exams; yeah, in between making half the pages on the wiki, he's busy becoming a lawyer and contributing to society and stuff while we're talking about pizza or whatever. Not that pizza isn't a pillar of Western civilization, but y'know.
 
It's been a while since I last checked on the site, and... why they reverted to Universe level? If they are really a universe breaker, Vergil or Dante can just finger snap the Qliphoth to dust easily, or one-punched any City-level demons like nothing, but, whatever XD
 
Argosax was causing the demon world (universe) to consume the human world (universe) and Dante stomps Argosax and others around that level by the time of DMC2.

Nothing contradicts or make the scaling an outlier was also a factor.

And the Qliphoth could very well be 3-A due to it powering creating a Fruit that makes someone 3-A and even then Dante and Vergil easily cut the tree down by the end of the game and they never had trouble with mid or top tiers of the verse when they were comparable or superior to said mid or top tiers.

I could go into more detail but it would better to just read the CRT's
 
Thank you Follow Doctor Freeman. For anyone curious, yes, I have his contact details on Discord and you can just ask if you want to say hi to him. I'm glad to hear that Law School is going well for Matt! I'm sure he'll make a great impact on the world once he's out. :)
 
And yes. Skylietz, the CRT was ridiculously in-depth (there were 4 dedicated threads in total, and well over 1500 posts). If you don't quite understand the justification, it's probably better to read through it (or if you don't have the time, which is perfectly understandable, I'm almost certain it has been summarised several times).
 
What do you guys think about having a page for the qliphoth tree?

I was also thinking we had pages for the devil sword sparda,rebellion, Yamato and the devil sword Dante
 
Sparda 20000000 said:
What do you guys think about having a page for the qliphoth tree?
I was also thinking we had pages for the devil sword sparda,rebellion, Yamato and the devil sword Dante
Click to expand...
I'm unsure of what tier exactly we would give for pages on the sword Sparda, Rebellion, and Yamato. Are there any good ideas?


As for the Qliphoth, we might need to debate that a bit. We know that the fruit of the Qliphoth is stronger than the Qliphoth itself by an unknown amount. And while the exact strength of the fruit is unknown, it did manage to noticably power-up Urizen, who is already far beyond baseline 3-A, so perhaps the fruit could be considered "At most 3-A"? And what about the Qliphoth feat of "shaking the foundations of the world", would that still come into play here? Like, would we have seperate keys for the Qliphoth such as "Low 6-B | At most 3-A" where the first key is the tree itself and the second key is the fruit? I like the idea, but I think we'll need some proper discussion on it.
 
Well, I'm not quite sure about Sparda and Dante being 3-A. I'm certainly willing to believe that they are, but there are a few minor problems. First of all, Sparda distributed his power across three weapons, the Sparda, Rebellion, and Yamato. We don't know if he did so evenly, so we can't just divide by 3 or anything. Point is, the Sparda sword would not necessarily be as strong as Sparda himself. It would only have an unknown percentage of his power. Also, for the Devil Sword Dante, I'm more willing to believe that would be 3-A, but similarly to the Qliphoth fruit, all we really know is that it powered-up a far beyond baseline 3-A character by an unknown but noticable amount. Again, I'm doubtful that would be worth more than an "At most 3-A" tiering.
 
Yamato is iffy because it's a haxxy sword. Sparda used it to split the world into two, the Human World and Demon World but while that feat could be comparable to something of a 3-A scale (separating one universe into two spaces) it would be closer to something resulting from pure hax.

I think the scale of what the Yamato can do with its hax, however, would make it 3-A. Sparda is definitely 3-A considering it's power was required for beating Mundus. Devil Sword Dante would should be 3-A considering it's the physical manifestation of Dante's power, who scales far above baseline 3-A.

Rebellion is the one that I can't really think of in-regards to scaling. It was used to allow Dante to tap into his demonic potential by having Dante absorb it but that may just be a power booster rather than something capable of 3-A feats.
 
Oh yes, I forgot about the Sparda sword helping to defeat Mundus. And yes, the justification for Devil Sword Dante sounds pretty good. Still really not sure about Rebellion, but if the Yamato is 3-A then I think it makes sense for Rebellion to be 3-A. What I find interesting is that if all 3 of those swords, Devil Sword Sparda, Rebellion and Yamato are all 3-A, then at a minimum to have split his power across all the swords and still had all of them as 3-A would put Sparda (not the sword this time) as being at least 3 times over baseline 3-A. It obviously doesn't change tiering at all, but it does give us a better indication of exactly how far beyond baseline characters in DMC are (which I am interested in figuring out).
 
Well, I'm not sure what 3-A feat was accepted. If it was Mundus's feat then the scaling goes:

EoG Dante = EoG Vergil = EoG Nero > FP Urizen > Serious Urizen > Seated Urizen >> MoG Nero >> BoG Dante > DMC2 Dante >> Void Mundus > Argosax > Mundus (Baseline 3-A)

So if we start with Mundus then the gang should scale to dozens or hundreds of times 3-A baseline. if it's Argosax it's probably dozens. The power scaling in DMCV is practically the DBS scaling of the DMC franchise so it's hard to pin down the ridiculous power-ups.
 
The feat that was accepted was Argosax's feat; Mundus' feat is currently rejected but might eventually be worth more discussion. Also, if the thing about Sparda being 3x baseline 3-A is correct, that would also mean that Argosax is at least 3x baseline, since Sparda needed the help of the Vie-De-Marli clan to defeat Argosax (god I hope I spelt that right).
 
Sparda's power was sealed on his sword(s) when he fought Argosax, I think someone estimated he had roughly 2/3rds of his power when he and the Vie de Marli clan sealed Argosax.
 
Yeah, it was me ^^^

Basically, Sparda sealed his power in three different swords, Sparda, Rebellion and Yamato

When he fought Argosax, the Sparda was at the Temen-ni-gru but we know that he also used Rebellion and Yamato in combat, so against Argosax, he might had 2/3 of his power at best, since is very clear that most of his power was sealed in the Sparda Sword, and not by equal parts
 
Dante Demon Killah said:
Yeah, it was me ^^^
Basically, Sparda sealed his power in three different swords, Sparda, Rebellion and Yamato

When he fought Argosax, the Sparda was at the Temen-ni-gru but we know that he also used Rebellion and Yamato in combat, so against Argosax, he might had 2/3 of his power at best, since is very clear that most of his power was sealed in the Sparda Sword, and not by equal parts
Click to expand...
Can you clarify where it says that the Sparda sword was in Temen-ni-gru? I'm not saying this from an argumentative point of view, I'm genuninely curious because I don't know exactly where it said that. It also just generally doesn't make much sense to me; didn't Sparda seal away his powers and the demons at the same time? If the Sparda sword was in Temen-ni-gru, wouldn't Argosax have also been sealed away?
 
Well, I'm talking about The Force Edge, that Arkham found after opening that portal in Temen ni Gru

It's not exactly in the tower, but... you got it
 
Dante Demon Killah said:
Well, I'm talking about The Force Edge, that Arkham found after opening that portal in Temen ni Gru
It's not exactly in the tower, but... you got it
Click to expand...
Well, yes, I understand that part. The Force Edge might as well be Sparda anyway, so that's not the detail I was asking about. My point is, where does it say that Sparda had put the Force Edge "inside" the Teme-ni-gru before fighting Argosax?
 
He didn't have Demon Sword Sparda with him because the Demon Sword Sparda's power is sealed in the Temen-ni-Gru, it's just the Force Edge. So even if we assume he had the Force Edge with him, while powerful, it's a sealed 1/3rd of the real thing.
 
Well, yes, I understand that part. The Force Edge might as well be Sparda anyway, so that's not the detail I was asking about. My point is, where does it say that Sparda had put the Force Edge "inside" the Teme-ni-gru before fighting Argosax?

He did right after defeating Mundus, to avoid a new invasion, 2000 years ago

The fight against Argosax was only a few centuries ago
 
Ah, gotcha. That explains it. Thank you, I'm awfully tired and my mind is a bit rusty. So, it's often accepted that the Devil Sword Sparda is 3-A in strength on it's own (due to having been used by Dante to defeat Mundus). I'm unsure of it's comparison to baseline though. To figure out how far beyond baseline these characters are, this might be a good start.
 
They are unquantifiably above baseline. With just the 1/3rd Sparda sword Dante rivaled Mundus in power, and he is unquantifiably above baseline by scaling to Prime Argosax who is above baseline in sealed form.
 
Well... that's kind of why we're trying to quantify it. Having a character in 3-A (a tier with quite literally infinite difference between minimum and maximum) and just saying they are unquantifiably above baseline makes it practically impossible to do any Versus Threads with them.
 
There is no way to quantify it. That would require to somehow quantify the merging of the universe. And even then they'll still be unquantifiably above that, since that's a sealed Argosax feat.
 
That's true... damnit. This is tricky... when it comes down to AP, under these conditions practically any match involving DMC and two 3-A characters would be inconclusive, since we have no idea what their exact AP is (beyond, obviously, the 3-A tiering).
 
We can say that he can apstomp (7,5X) people who's above baseline, it's enough to let him fight against people who are under...10X to 20X times baseline

But that is just for VS purposes
 
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