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I'm neutral for now.
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Destroyers trying to make history
- Thread starter ChoursDropoff
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- 2,721
- 3,520
I know there is technically not, "filler" in the dbs anime, but shouldn't the first scene with beerus take precedence over the baseball one just because it was a more serious episode? It introduced more of the multiverse, more glimpse of hakai energy, champa's first proper introduction and his relations with beerus.
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- Thread starter
- #43
I mean if Goku Black is resistant to casually manipulation with time rings then it’s technically type 4 accasuality.
- 10,541
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Currently he only has Acausality Type 1 through the time ring
- 733
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- Thread starter
- #45
I know I’m not pushing for it but if they’re going off technicalities then yeah.
- 12,451
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no? there is no filler, it is.......arbitrary to say one should have more precedence than the other, both are equally as canon to one another
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I’ve always found this didn’t make sense, because the Time Rings in themselves are protections from attacks that ignore Type 1 Acausality (as Timelines in DBS don’t work on BTTF rules, which means everyone naturally has Type 1 due to the fact the cosmology literally doesn’t support past attacks affecting the future). But also, the attack is literally one that creates BTTF rules (which the Time Ring then ignores), so it makes sense from that perspective. I just always thought it should give more based on how it’s a layered mechanism.
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huh, i almost forgot we already had a thread with the Zamasu and Beerus point with similar reasoning, i will just link my previous answer to that point for consideration
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if the gods work on a different "logic" on how time travel and all works.....then Type 1 would make sense as gods wouldn't follow the same rules mortals follow that create alternate timelines to begin with, of course, they would gain acausality type 4 due to it
Killerdrone123
He/Him- 2,089
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Different reasonings here op is using the fact that hakai can erase space times for history type ee
He was using zamasu stuff for limited causality manipulation
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Mm. Wouldn’t it mean they should get both Type 1 and Type 4, then, if you’re wearing a Time Ring? Since you’re immune to both mortal and divine changes in time?
- 12,451
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while he is also using an argument that was used before with Beerus Erasing Zamasu and all that, there is new stuff, but there is also old stuff
Type 4 can cover what type 1 does, it is kind of redundant to add in both
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- Thread starter
- #53
Technically yes because gods are literally operating under a different set of cause and effect.
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The Zamasu point here is used as support. The main argument is them literally destroying their universes in combination.
Edit: Also that was months ago. They are able to reuse it after 3-4 months. Just in case this is tried to be dismissed on those grounds.
Killerdrone123
He/Him- 2,089
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Also as lephry said it is good supporting evidence that hakai can affect space time
- 733
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- Thread starter
- #56
I’m using old stuff because it fits better for a different ability as pointed out in the thread.
Not really they still have different applications hence why they’re labeled different.
- 12,451
- 4,476
yeah i know that, just putting my earlier response in the earlier thread about that
- 12,451
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not really, Type 4 a catch all term for Acausality, example, having the properties of Type 1 with a different Causal system/logic grants type 4 without Type 1, as the reasoning for Type 4 in this case already gives what type 1 does
- 12,451
- 4,476
huh? when did Beerus erased the entire Timeline from ever existing? it did still exist, the Time Ring didn't just.....poofed out of existance, he just created another one as the Timeline Black came from was the main one
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Alright people, y'all starting to go in circles again. Just wait for staff.
Spinoirr
He/Him- 16,269
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The manga showed a diagram for it
Spinoirr
He/Him- 16,269
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The 10th page, basically it's more like All Zamasu's who don't have time rings were erased
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While yes, this is true to an extent, it’s more accurate to apply both.
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- Thread starter
- #65
Type 1: Time Paradox Immunity: Characters with this type of Acausality are rendered immune to changes in the past and standard temporal paradoxes, but remain just as vulnerable in the present and can be affected by normal Causality Manipulation and similar abilities.
Type 4: Irregular Causality: Characters with this type of Acausality operate on a different and irregular system of cause and effect than regular causality. This grants them resistance to abilities such as Causality Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, and Precognition, among others.
They’re quite literally different type 1 can’t save you from causality manipulation.
- 12,451
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show please? the anime version is very clear that no timeline was erased outside of Zeno in the end of the arc
- 12,451
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......no? that is never said? that diagram only says that when Beerus erased the present Zamasu, the one who would have become Goku Black, since he changed history another timeline was created where he didn't erased Zamasu, aka basic DB Time Travel rules, of course, this only happened because Black had a time ring to protect his present, but still....nothing is ever said that "All Zamasu's who don't have time rings were erased"....that is coming from absolute nowhere
like, Beerus' statement just says that due to god's following a different logic to History alteration, if they change history, the future also changes, Hakai is never specified there, nor is it ever said that "all Zamasus without Time Rings were erased" if that was the case the Immortal Zamasu wouldn't even exist as his past self who wished to become immortal wouldn't exist, thus he wouldn't have immortality, thus he would have been erased as well
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- #68
That’s not the argument it’s that they’re changing history when that’s supposed to be impossible.
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i was answering @Spinoirr who brought that point up..........why answer me answering to the point instead of him who brought it up in the first place?
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- #70
Because you’re speaking in opposition to the point I’m just clearing up confusion.
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Yeah, and someone still trying to argue in circles…
But anyways, I’m agreeing with the thread
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Discussion has been calmed for 2 hours now, there's really no need for this comment.
I sin of this myself sometimes, but let's try keep to the jabs to a minimum.
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I agree with this. The macrocosms are space-times and the hakai energy is shown spreading during the fight that’d annihilate them. Plus hakai is a UeS anyways, so this seems perfectly ok.
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- #76
History
Spinoirr
He/Him- 16,269
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I say narrative bc it already has that
Hasty12345
Username Only- 5,349
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I disagree with using the Beerus-champa clash as evidence of history erasure when the clash didn’t even erase a floor(it deconstructed it and there’s no evidence of spacetime being affected). Using that scene to argue history level erasure seems disingenuous to me.
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Because they were stopped before the erasure could've spread to cover their universes.
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- #80
They also stated they were going to destroy the universe while using hakai in the manga. It’s really blatant what the intention was.
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