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Desparado vs Power of Miracles

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00potato said:
I mean just because you see those visions doesn’t make them true
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It makes you believe they are true though.

00potato said:
someone with the power of miracles would definitely know that it likely wouldn’t turn out that way
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Or would they? Or would they maybe be extra scared considering the opponent's power might outclass PoM?

00potato said:
would that even work on a digimon? visions are all in the mind and they have completely different minds to humans.
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That would i guess be different if it was a thing on the brain, which it is not. So yeah it would work.
 
How would she make him believe it? Mind manip? (resisted by the way.) is it just a really graphic image (still doesn’t matter since POM.)

Also how is the vision not based in the brain/mind? The brain and eyes are what effect how you see things and how you respond, what about her desperado ability isn’t based in that?
 
The mind is still based in the brain, so visions must be manipulating the brain/mind to cause the effect. So it’s resisted anyway. They understand it but that just means it is better then their resistances (which ain’t shit compared to higher D resistances.) also pain wouldn’t be much of an issue, if you know you can win you would power through pain (assuming her mind based ability would even work on a digital being: again completely different physiology her pain might not work.)
 
I am on break, but regardless, there are Eaters who have Type 4 and they can't really imagine a death as they don't actually have a mind to really think of fear or anything. So they wouldn't be able to imagine a death for themselves.

Also, Devimon or Grimmon don't really stand much of a chance against Miracle users. Also there will be Siesamon X Next Year who'll have OS Generics.
 
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There is also Peacockmon who as a robot, can't really feel pain. And it also has the Power of Miracles.

Regardless, I won't be back on site until next year so this'll likely be my last post. If you need to ask me anything, just DM me on Discord.
 
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Dragonmasterxyz said:
I am on break, but regardless, there are Eaters who have Type 4 and they can't really imagine a death as they don't actually have a mind to really think of fear or anything. So they wouldn't be able to imagine a death for themselves.
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They'd still get fate haxed so no big deal. Also if they lack a mind how can they move?

Dragonmasterxyz said:
There is also Peacockmon who as a robot, can't really feel pain. And it also has the Power of Miracles.
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I guess that's just inconc then. Edel will inconc with the Digimon boyos.

Dragonmasterxyz said:
Regardless, I won't be back on site until next year so this'll likely be my last post. If you need to ask me anything, just DM me on Discord.
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Damn that's quite the holidays yer taking. I have to work even in the 31st. Yer making me jealous out here.
 
Regardless of Eaters, who shouldn't be affected by the Desperado aura, OS Generics users have Tier 1 passives, so those would take the 1st spot once Dragon is back.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
The whole "passive = infinite" and "passive < immesurable" is dumb to begin with, it's just commonly believed by people, not really something that logically makes sense.
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A bit of derailment, but anyway, what is your reason to think both are dumb things? Mainly "passive<immeasurable" cause i really agree with this making no sense, but most users seem to disagree with me.

Firephoenixearl said:
Well there are 2 ways this fight can go:

A) Rhinomon decides to say "f this shit im out" and not fight due to the passives
B) Inconclusive, both keep rewriting fate

Im gonna vote Edelweiss simply because she has more chances to win than lose in this one.
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A isn't how generic Digimon act against certain death, and due to the PoM (which is smurf Fate hax iirc) it is possible his fate wouldn't be distorted to show his death.

B isn't really possible, PoM can affect people more acausal than Edel, so it would eventually create a miracle to allow Rhinomon to win, and even if for some reason PoM can't help to defeat Edel, it will still protect him from the Desperado hax, meaning the next thing they would use is what would decide the winner.
 
XDragnoir said:
A bit of derailment, but anyway, what is your reason to think both are dumb things? Mainly "passive<immeasurable" cause i really agree with this making no sense, but most users seem to disagree with me.
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Well there are several ways you can argue how passives would affect immeasurables logically speaking.

1. Immeasurable speed is glorified time travel. So in a sense even if you run to the past, the passive would still be there, so if i passively kill people in my area, if you go back 1 day ago, you'd still die because the past version of me also has that. (doesn't apply to all types of passives)
2. Immeasurable speed characters would still be affected by a passive even before they decide to go back in time, because the passive would still be there before he even decides to move in the first place. (doesn't apply to all types of passives)

Most of these issues stem from the fact that people seem to think of passive as speed, which is not. Passive is a method of activation, in other words "it's always there" saying you outrun a passive, is like saying you outrun a spatially omnipresent being (omnipresent through space, not time). You can say "ok but an omnipresent cannot go back in time", but that doesn't mean you can outrun it because it is not speed, it is a state of being. THOUGH disclaimer this would depend on the type of passive, if you have passives like radiation, heat, light idk all that kind of stuff, then Immeasurable does beat it because all of those would seem stopped in front of it, those are all just waves, really fast waves but waves. So if it is something like that Immeasurable will beat it clean, however if your passive is sth like the Desperado thing (where you look at it and your fate says "don't do it fam") then immeasurable will not beat it.

To decide what can or cannot be beaten by Immeasurable just see whether the passive ability's effect includes any form of movement. In the case of radiation or heat, it does include movement because the waves need to travel, in the 2nd case there is no movement required.

I tried to explain it in simple terms, i hope it's clear.

XDragnoir said:
isn't really possible, PoM can affect people more acausal than Edel, so it would eventually create a miracle to allow Rhinomon to win, and even if for some reason PoM can't help to defeat Edel, it will still protect him from the Desperado hax, meaning the next thing they would use is what would decide the winner.
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Yeah, the fate can affect edel, but edel can do the same. So the fate keeps on rewriting itself.
 
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Passives either take some time to affect the opponent or are actually instant and take zero time. Infinite is zero time, as they take no time to perform their actions and can do an infinite amount of things in less than an instant.

Immeasurable speed is speed so fast that it breaks the very rules of time, being able to take action in negative time and act before instantaneous events or even act before events that have already happened, such as dodging a strike that has already hit you. Yes, it doesn't make sense logically. Welcome to fiction, Immeasurable is quite literally entirely devoted to speeds so fast they break logic.

Thus Passives are <<< Immeasurable because they still work on speeds that obey the logic of time while Immeasurable laughs all over that notion.
 
Everything12 said:
even act before events that have already happened, such as dodging a strike that has already hit you.
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This is not purely immeasurable speed. This is immeasurable speed in addition to acausality. You're not just breaking the concept of speed here, you are breaking the laws of causality themselves.
 
No, thats entirely Immeasurable speed. The idea that Immeasurable is just Time Travelling is the mistaken belief, as feats of Time Travelling through speed alone is really only supporting feats for Immeasurable. Feats for Immeasurable are things such as seeing Infinite Speed characters frozen like they see Finite Speed characters, said dodging a strike that already reached you, and hitting some with an attack before you have even launched the attack.
 
Say what you will about its not bring speed or logical conclusions, Immeasurable Speed is treated by the Wiki as what I stated and is thus faster then Passives. You have any problems with this take it up in the recent Immeasurable speed thread.
 
Everything12 said:
You have any problems with this take it up in the recent Immeasurable speed thread.
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Oh i have never seen that note on the explanation of immeasurable on the speed page. It being treated by random user a certain way does not make that certain way true. I heard AKM had a thread about immeasurable, i'll see what he has to say on the topic.
 
Rhino for Dragon's reasons, if i need to be more clear, PoM is smurf going by what Dragon said here:
Dragonmasterxyz said:
Hell, Magnamon during the end of D-Cyber was able to share his Power of Miracles with the likes of Alphamon and the main protags, and despite them literally losing, a series of events immediately started occuring that led to them being victorious over Dexmon who had become one with the entire Digital World itself.
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Combo with the fact it is unlikely to Rhino to not act against certain death (assuming PoM wouldn't block Desperado hax since the start) and PoM's ability to revive (assuming it does not stop the fated death of taking place) and you have someone who will eventually defeat Edel due to being a much stronger fate controller she can't really defeat with Desperado, and afaik she does not have anything else, much less anything PoM wouldn't be able to counter or stop.
 
Oh.

I still do not think Edel would fail to rewrite his fate though. Since he lacks resistance to fate and getting fate haxed doesn't give resistance to other fate hax.
 
resistance isn't a factor
Rhinomon doesn't have it
and edel's resistance isn't enough
 
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