Demi-Fiend (SMT) vs Undertale universe

[Overlord-Murasama]

This is Hito as a half demon. Does he still solo?

 

[SuperGokuMan]

Yes.

 

[ClassicGameGuys]

I don't have much of a clue how strong Undertale verse is, but even without the Amala Labyrinth feats, from what I know Undertale universe gets slammed on by the likes of Mada or Philemon, let alone, say, the Cardinal Angels. Also how resistant are they to space piercing attacks?

 

[The_Everlasting]

You can look at their pages, you know. Undertale God-Tiers are High 2-A btw.

 

[ClassicGameGuys]

I have seen their pages, but I'm not sure if I should take destroying 216 universes as multiversal if it was over time which I heard it was, also I heard conflicting arguments of their speed (somebody arguing Frisk outran the universal absorption making him MFTL+ and others arguing he "only" tanked it) so *shrugs*

 

[The_Everlasting]

It was all at once, and Asriel is literally infinitely more powerful than the character that did that. Plus the God-Tiers have Immeasurable speed anyway, so it doesn't really matter if Frisk outran the universe's destruction or only tanked it (Though he can do either depending on your action during the battle).

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I have seen their pages, but I'm not sure if I should take destroying 216 universes as multiversal if it was over time which I heard it was, also I heard conflicting arguments of their speed (somebody arguing Frisk outran the universal absorption making him MFTL+ and others arguing he "only" tanked it) so *shrugs*

There was no multiversal destruction over time. It happened instantly (assuming you're referring to Chara). The universe absorption feat is severely misinterpreted, as it was the timeline being absorbed, not the universe.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Anyway, Demi-Fiend curbs almost everybody. Don't know if he actually has any way of hurting the absolute top tiers (specifically Chara).

 

[ClassicGameGuys]

I see. From what I gather they should stop at Kagutsuchi or Betatron then (Demi-Fiend can tag beings of immeasurable speed as well. Even Philemon for example has omnilock as one of his powers allowing him to exist beyond space and time itself and Nocturne is hilariously above Persona 2)

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I see. From what I gather they should stop at Kagutsuchi or Betatron then (Demi-Fiend can tag beings of immeasurable speed as well)

I've been thinking Hitoshura should be upgraded, for a while. Anyway, not sure anybody in the verse can kill him, but like I said, I have my doubts at him being able to kill certain characters, either. Specifically Chara, who's not really even a solid entity but more a conceptual being who exists as long as what they embody does.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Anyway, it also might be important to note that I'm certainly not counting Annoying Dog, as it is made to be an absurd character which we have no way to accurately gauge.

 

[ClassicGameGuys]

Hitoshura can also kill conceptual beings and pierce through space, as well as kill enemies with omnilock who exist beyond space and time so I don't see how that would save Chara. Any avatar of YHVH comes to mind (Lucifer included who is stated to be a significant fraction of his power in SMT2, Hitoshura defeated Lucifer while he was giving him a serious test and obviously not holding back since he was looking for the ultimate weapon against the Great Will itself)

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

YHVH's avatars aren't really the same on the conceptual scale, as they're more just metaphysical entities and not beings that embody certain concepts and constants. Though I could be forgetting a specific entity, as it's been a few years since I played Nocturne.

 

[ClassicGameGuys]

Several of the entities are actually embodiments of certain concepts/constants: http://dijeh.tumblr.com/post/113286556493/a-splitting-headache-for-me-just-an-excuse-for

Heck the Persona 1 cast defeated the actual Nyx, a conceptual being of death and Demi is obviously >>>>> them, no reason somebody Lucifer specifically sought out would lack the power to do so as well

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Aren't most of the entities who are embodiments more representations than actual links to said ideas? Because IIRC, defeating said entities didn't get rid of said concepts.

Also, wasn't Nyx not the embodiment of death until Persona 3, in which only an avatar is fought? I recall her simply being "Goddess of Night" in Persona 1 and being more your basic deity than conceptual entity.

 

[Undylan]

Demi most likey stomps here

 

[ClassicGameGuys]

"Aren't most of the entities who are embodiments more representations than actual links to said ideas? Because IIRC, defeating said entities didn't get rid of said concepts."

Not 100% sure what this means. Like if they were an actual embodiment of, say, death, nobody would die again? Because that's cancelled out by many embodiments of the same concept existing I believe

I don't see why Nyx can't be both the Night Queen and god of death, also her bio says this for what it's worth in Nocturne

"The goddess of the night in Greek mythology. She was born out of Chaos and gave birth to many offspring, including light (Aether), day (Hemera), death (Thanatos) and the Moirae Sisters among others."

 

[Oblivion00]

Even with the God Tiers at High 2-A I still think Demi-Fiend wins against the verse.

 

[ClassicGameGuys]

Basically what Oblivion said

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

In that case, it seems more like entities linked to said concept than full on conceptual entities, then, which is a significant difference in this case. Doesn't mean Chara can actually hurt Hitoshura. Just that Hitoshura can't get rid of them.

True, but I'm just saying I didn't recall that addition until 3, whereas in 1 she was more of a run of the mill deity (the fact that phrase can be used actually amuses me).

 

[Tivanenk]

I personally think that Demi-fiend really needs an upgrade on his profile. He's stronger than Aleph and was specifically handpicked to fight the Great Will who >> YHWH

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I personally think that Demi-fiend really needs an upgrade on his profile. He's stronger than Aleph and was specifically handpicked to fight the Great Will who >> YHWH

Where was it revealed he was stronger than Aleph? Also, don't we not know anything about the Great Will? Some people have doubts it even actually exists and isn't just YHVH.

 

[Tivanenk]

I personally think that Demi-fiend really needs an upgrade on his profile. He's stronger than Aleph and was specifically handpicked to fight the Great Will who >> YHWH

Where was it revealed he was stronger than Aleph? Also, don't we not know anything about the Great Will? Some people have doubts it even actually exists and isn't just YHVH.

Demifiend is stronger than Aleph because he beat a Lucifer who should be above YHVH at that time (he was planning to go against the Great Will, and Lucifer isn't a dumb schmuck, plus YHVH is only a fragment of the Great Will as stated in Aleph's battle against him). Plus, there was even a reference to the Great Will right after the scene with Kagutsuchi.



Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne Second Kalpa Part One

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Why would Lucifer be stronger than YHVH at the time? Didn't Lucifer get one-shot in SMT1?

There have been several mentions to the Great Will, but that doesn't change the fact that it his done nothing, made no appearances, and we are still unsure exactly what it is or how it relates to YHVH.

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

Probably solos but i doubt that'll last since undertale has never ending jumps in power

 

[Tivanenk]

Why would Lucifer be stronger than YHVH at the time? Didn't Lucifer get one-shot in SMT1?
There have been several mentions to the Great Will, but that doesn't change the fact that it his done nothing, made no appearances, and we are still unsure exactly what it is or how it relates to YHVH.

Lucifer gets stronger throughout the series. He doesn't have a definite power level, it continually increases. And in Nocturne, only DF, Lucifer and his army, and the Great Will are left alive, meaning that YHVH is dead, so Lucifer has to be stronger than him. And while the Great Will never appeared directly on screen, it's been referenced many times in MTII, SMT Nocturne and even in other games (I think Strange Journey is one of them). YHVH himself states that the Greal Will of the Universe will resurrect him if he dies. It's invincible while any single human is alive, which is why DF had to kill Kagutsuchi which is a fragment of TGW and collapse the Amala multiverse. That way, the TGW became vulnerable.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Why would Lucifer have to be stronger than someone who was already dead? Also, unless Lucifer was literally getting infinitely more powerful several times, the difference would be completely negligible.

Again, the Great Will has been referenced many times, but we still have no idea what it is or if it even exists.

 

[Squid_peanut]

the notable things that Undertale has is defence ignoring attacks that rellie on the kills a person has to their name, movement restricting abilities that at least work on multiversal beings, high tiered time manipulation and time manipulation prevention and an entity that exists as a concept that can insert themselves into individuals, influence their actions and siphon their power. also the art of deplomacy. I think it's good to start from there on what demi-fiend has to counter (also gaster who may be a super brick wall or something)

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

(also gaster who may be a super brick wall or something)

Hitoshura has 0 way to kill Gaster, but we also don't even know if Gaster does anything, hence why I leave him and AD out of Undertale verse debates.

 

[WarriorWare]

Dang, Undertale's getting upgraded all the time. I was about to call this a spite thread.

I mean, you might as well just say "Asriel" or "Chara," 'cause if you can beat them, you solo the verse.

I dunno if I'd consider Gaster a factor at all. Dude's kinda featless. All he's got going is his stats.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I dunno if I'd consider Gaster a factor at all. Dude's kinda featless. All he's got going is his stats.

Hence why I said I usually leave him out, as we don't know if he does like...anything.

 

[Squid_peanut]

gaster is sort of like a puzzle where all of the pieces are lost in a ball pit, and the ball pit is all of time and space. In other words it would be hell to find it all but there's not much they can do to you either

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well Gaster do apparently deletes Chara from existence, if you name them Gaster, but that's pretty much it.

 

[Squid_peanut]

Well Gaster do apparently deletes Chara from existence, if you name them Gaster, but that's pretty much it.

stepping on the puzzle peice while in the ball pit

 

[fandom_420Swagnemite]

Now since Demi Fiend is High 2-A instead of Low 1-C, Undertaleverse could beat him.

 

[Squid_peanut]

Now since Demi Fiend is High 2-A instead of Low 1-C, Undertaleverse could beat him.

possibly definantly given the sheer BS time manipulation some of the god tiers have

 

[Undylan]

Tiers doesn't make the outcome all the time you know.

 

[Squid_peanut]

Tiers doesn't make the outcome all the time you know.

when you get to where every tier is a degree of infinity above the previous, it becomes sort of hard to ignore

and if demi-fiend is the same tier as Asriel, any diference between the two can be thrown out the window by Asriel 100% controlling the flow of the fight via time manipulation

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Asriel and Hitoshura should be on pretty even playing fields, as even Asriel at a fraction of his power should be comparable to Kagutsuchi. If this was just Demon Hitoshura vs Full Power Asriel, I wouldn't know who to go for, but I feel the Undertaleverse has a much better chance all together, as it's essentially just adding even more power. I mean, of course most characters aren't gonna make a difference, but adding Omega Flowey, Undyne the Undying, Chara, and Frisk to Asriel is gonna add up.

 

[Squid_peanut]

Asriel and Hitoshura should be on pretty even playing fields, as even Asriel at a fraction of his power should be comparable to Kagutsuchi. If this was just Demon Hitoshura vs Full Power Asriel, I wouldn't know who to go for, but I feel the Undertaleverse has a much better chance all together, as it's essentially just adding even more power. I mean, of course most characters aren't gonna make a difference, but adding Omega Flowey, Undyne the Undying, Chara, and Frisk to Asriel is gonna add up.

and oh boy the save scumming