I meant for the Titan specifically, with the Fountain only creating the Titan and giving it its power in its case. I'm not arguing against Dark Fountains creating or stabilizing Dark Worlds in general, or trying to say the Dark Fountain the Titan was made from isn't that strong.
Oh yeah, they get inside the Titan and the world inside seems to have no theme, and thus, no reason to be city sized.
Then I do not agree with the idea with Titans =/= Fountains, as the method of creating them is the same (Berdly was about to create one in Chapter 2 in the same way Knight did in Chapter 4 with him believing he'd make a Fountain) and then both being sealed the same after that Ralsei was right about them behaving the same for this exact reason.
I was literally arguing for the Titans being 7-B. I'm not arguing "Titans =/= Fountains" exactly. You can focus on Charmander instead of me
I genuinely don't understand why you feel the need to try and diminish valid reasons for downgrades.
Is the argument here that, because the fountain is "stronger" than the one in the Cyber World, it should scale to it's size?
The argument is that it's stronger, so it should be stronger. The size isn't relevant to its energy output
"The size isn't relevant to energy output, so we will scale it to this other fountain that uses size to scale it's energy output"
You know that's not what I meant so much I'm not even going to entertain this.
Apologies I saw the conversation reduce to the AP scaling and thought we were concluding the discussion.
I'll chip in to mention the Titan is only capable of using the laser attack once, then it uses the same attack (this one, but with 3 orbs instead of 2) and can't bring its shield up until it gets the chance to heal for 2 turns.
Wdym? We use 556 m/s for speed of electricity, just like for every electric attack that doesn't qualify for lightning standards
That's not true, they happen even after the alleged FTL feat, the cast keep consistently being relative to sound, and the highest non-relativistic feat is High Hypersonic in the same chapter they "move" at FTL
Light does not change color by bouncing off walls, but by refraction of certain spectrums.
This is not about them bouncing, but how they're both short and the end lf the beam narrows down in what amounts to be an unrealistic tail.
Thar doesn't make it's beams SoL. Considering they're visible in the first place means they're not operating like a standard TV remote.
The first link is six hours and the second says it blushes in infrared. Neither support that it's using a speed of ligh energy ray.
This calc is saying the electric bolts are moving at 556 m/s, as the OP alluded to. Which was what I was talking about.
I mean it's not super good in my view, but at least it implies some superiority.
It's not crazy. I just don't believe in the entire OP. Some things make sense and some don't. The Titans and Dark Worlds are just examples of that in my view.
So you are against assuming that electric attacks ingame move at speed of 556 m/s? Ok then(thought we don't require for electric attacks to have lightning properties for using this speed value)
I must clarify that my CRT is not trying to establish the Dark World as a fake, 11-C/R>F realm. It's just using its fantasy nature as a reason to disregard assumptions that the magic is realistic by default.
I'll try to search better the actual one later.
Ok so I'll try to reply to the best of my abilities on phone given that the site crashes every 3 minutes if not on my PC so I apologize if this doesn't look pretty.
Yea, because for it to be considered a viable source for SoL speed, it must meet our criteria for it. It behaving under goofy cartoon physics goes against our criteria.
Are they 1:1 or magical corrupted versions of those real life objects? Because they're not a Jack-O-Lantern given form. They're a corrupted Jaco-O-Lantern that shares physical traits with one and just happens to have overlapping characteristics.
They're not non-issues, they show the beams behave in non-normal ways. Pushing against the idea that they're comparable to a IRL infrared ray.
I mean, yeah then. If most franchises don't qualify they don't qualify. Most franchises don't qualify for two temporal dimensions, that doesn't mean we should start be relaxed with our standards.
It literally does not what? The only thing that could be considered as too far off is it bouncing on the battle box, but it has no properties due to it being a pure gameplay element, so you cannot use it as evidence against or for it being SoL.
It's really funny that you said that because it's literally the case. Dark Worlds are literally rooms and the Darkners are objects, as not only explained by Ralsei in Chapter 3 but also visually shown in Chapter 2, and multiple characters say explicitly that Dark Fountains are what gives a form to both the Dark Worlds and all of their contents.
Why are they contradictory to it being SoL? You never bothered to mention why, just that they do not, which is what irks me here.
This is not the same and you know that. What you said is a whole cosmological setting that requires attentive evaluation to be precise, this instead is just the interpretation of a rather simple attack with not much context needed to understand it.
At the moment:
I can, because that element is what's being used for the calc. If it's not usable then the calc isn't usable either. The properties do not meet enough criteria for it to be considered actual light in my view.
I mentioned them in my opening post. But to restate again:
Its comparing two set standards and how we have to be strict with them. One being easier to achieve doesn't negate the comparison. Zapper doesn't meet the qualifications for SoL in my view. Jackenstein does because it acts as a legitimate omnidirectional light source.
Gameplay element and not a real contradiction, why are you keeping to ignore this.
I LITERALLY said gave evidence of them being a literal TV remote given form like you asked.
...because of it being a pun involving the meaning of volume, not that it has sound manipulation literally involved.
And why is that a disqualifier??? A dude has only to fire light beams for these to be SOL, what?
On this, is it really an outlier anyways? I mean we do not see them struggling with less. Anti-Feats are just feats that are against higher stuff (ie a character struggling to lift a car is an anti feat against them lifting continents), but I do not see a case of that in DR.
Because the calc uses those gameplay elements. You both ignore gameplay and then use gameplay like that.
I asked if they were 1:1 or magically corrupted. All you showed was that they were magically corrupted. Zapper can turn into a cannon.
It shows that Zapper can fire attacks from itself that don't have any characteristics resembling actual SoL properties, meaning the beam that also shows no SoL properties probably isn't SoL either.
Yes. Without Zapper it is 17,730x to 62,000x their next best showing. The OP also shows them getting tagged or matching demonstrably slower projectiles. Jackenstein would be an outlier for those reasons.
7-B stays, then. Okay. I believe the evidence that showed that, at the very least, that Dark Worlds vary greatly based on arbitrary means, would at least put the stabilization into question as whether or not the dark world inside the Titan is necessarily 7-B, or it required that much energy to sustain that much darkness (as darkness, quite literally, scale to any size based on themes)
Counted.
Now you're just strawmanning my point. I said that given that it's a gameplay element, you cannot say that they're things like "walls" because they have no estabilished properties like a "real" wall would have.
You said that "they're not X things given form" and I refuted that given that it's textually the case in-verse, but if you don't wanna make it over semantics that's fine.
I mean, what do you want more for it being SoL than its user having statements of infrared and also a TV remote? Ok that (for some reason) going straight is not a qualifier, but there's no real contradiction either.
You literally disregard the contradictions pointed by both me and Qawsed several times in this debate, the fact they curve and change colors.
Why are y'all so obsessed with distorting evidence?
It is evidence of unrealistic behavior. Stop pretending we're standing in a place where the assumption that it is realistic is already a reality.
Curvature in the trajectory I mean... It having a tail means nothing, is artstyle a disqualifier now lmao.
Is it really? Do we have to downgrade all the beams that dare being multi color for a simple design choice from being SoL?
Since the argument is that these are Infrared Rays of a controller, this is not a disqualifier as those can indeed bounce off walls
Having a tail is a disqualifier, and you can't chalk up contradictions to artstyle when it's convenient to you. The laser curves, end of discussion.
