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Deltarune: Huge Upgrades

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Therefir

Therefir

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It turns out that the absolute weakest attack in the game is actually Building level, so a general upgrade is in the line.

Since Kris or Ralsei can only take a single point of damage from this blast point-blank, I propose that their durability should be "At least Building level", as they practically no-sold a 0.50 tons explosion.

This is how the verse page will look like after the changes, and this is how Kris's profile will look. The rest of the characters will have similar justifications and will scale from Kris instead of Berdly.
 
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StrymULTRA said:
And so... No more Undertale vs Deltarune.

I agree though.
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Sans:
artworks-8rwzIYc7sQY1mq84-M9GRYg-t500x500.jpg
 
Now that I think though, I think that the Chapter 1 Lightners justification for 8-C+ can be worded better.

Wouldn't they simply just downscale from the Chapter 2 selves? Given that Jevil is much stronger than base Spamton who is around Kris' level, similarly to how he's far superior to each of the Fun Gang members.
 
Therefir said:
It turns out that the absolute weakest attack in the game is actually Building level, so a general upgrade is in the line.

Since Kris or Ralsei can only take a single point of damage from this blast point-blank, I propose that their durability should be Building level+, as a 0.50 tons attack only inflicts minuscule damage to their health.

All the Lightners' HPs exceed the hundreds, and most attacks in the game inflict a few dozen points of damage, that's why I think Building level+ would be an appropriate rating for these characters.

This is how the verse page will look like after the changes, and this is how Kris's profile will look. The rest of the characters will have a similar justification and will scale from Kris instead of Berdly.
Click to expand...
I think the upscaling only works for combat purposes, just like how we treat one-shotting. The durability would be flat Building level. Someone should really add that note in the durability article.
 
Oh yeah, I disagree, I thought that the calc was 8-C+ already.

The gap is still too large, and we do not take multipliers about stats, we already do not for Undertale where those are canon, so for Deltarune we shouldn't either.
 
What do you mean by too large? There's no multiplier difference anymore, it's case-by-case basis, it doesn't really matter if the feat is 2x time weaker than baseline 8-C+ or 1.5x now, only the context of how much they are upscaling.

Has there been any change in how upscaling works that I haven't noticed? This is the first time I've heard that upscaling only works for combat purposes.
 
Don't think we can get people to 8-C+ due to being able to tank an 8-C attack multiple times
At most, we could use Spamton NEO's firepower statement to get him to 8-C+, but that's about it
 
Therefir said:
What do you mean by too large? There's no multiplier difference anymore, it's case-by-case basis, it doesn't really matter if the feat is 2x time weaker than baseline 8-C+ or 1.5x.

Has there been any change in how upscaling works that I haven't noticed? This is the first time I've heard that upscaling only works for combat purposes.
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Wasn't 8-B Jojo rejected a fuckton of times because of this kind of upscaling being rejected?
 
Therefir said:
Has there been any change in how upscaling works that I haven't noticed? This is the first time I've heard that upscaling only works for combat purposes.
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Eh, no changes here. Just pointing out the flaw in upscaling a calculated value based on things like one-shotting and no-selling. Wiki pointed out already that one-shot upscaling should only be used for Vs Debates, not in profiles or articles: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/One-Shot

And yes, the multiplier for one-shotting is still hanging out in there.
 
StrymULTRA said:
Wasn't 8-B Jojo rejected a fuckton of times because of this kind of upscaling being rejected?
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What's the context behind this? Do Jojo characters can obliterate other High 8-C+ characters but they still don't get upscaled to 8-B?
Adem_Warlock69 said:
Don't think we can get people to 8-C+ due to being able to tank an 8-C attack multiple times
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It's not just multiple attacks though, it's a character taking the absolute minimum damage the game can register.
 
"The "+" symbol can also be used if there exists a calculation extremely close to the arithmetic mean, and characters scale above the calculated feat by a wide margin, for example being able to defeat enemies on such levels with a single casual attack." - Attack Potency Page

Damn, I guess 0.50 tons is not nearly enough, I will just argue for "At least Building level" then.
 
Therefir said:
"The "+" symbol can also be used if there exists a calculation extremely close to the arithmetic mean, and characters scale above the calculated feat by a wide margin, for example being able to defeat enemies on such levels with a single casual attack." - Attack Potency Page

Damn, I guess 0.50 tons is not nearly enough, I will just argue for "At least Building level" then.
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Dude there's a >x2 gap between your calc and 8-C+.

Besides, I wouldn't put that "at least", they upscale from that on an unquantifiable margin, and it looks annoying.
StrymULTRA said:
Now that I think though, I think that the Chapter 1 Lightners justification for 8-C+ can be worded better.

Wouldn't they simply just downscale from the Chapter 2 selves? Given that Jevil is much stronger than base Spamton who is around Kris' level, similarly to how he's far superior to each of the Fun Gang members.
Click to expand...
What about this though?
 
StrymULTRA said:
Yeah, but spamming "at least" for every character sounds weird.
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That's why I wanted them to be 8-C+ you little [Worm]! Now suffer for disagreeing.

Despite how you feel about them all being "At least", it's still what makes the most sense here.
 
I'm fine with Deltarune characters (at least the ones that matter) getting "At least Building level" from this. They still basically no-sold a 0.5-ton blast; just keep in mind there's no set multiplier for no-selling and the one-shot multiplier is only usable for Vs Debates.
 
I suppose that everyone will be "At least 8-C", with King, Jevil, Queen and Spamton NEO being "At least 8-C, likely higher" due to them upscaling a lot from the rest.

Besides, again, I think that saying that the Kris/Susie/Ralsei justification for the Chapter 1 key can simply be "Not too weaker than their Chapter 2 selves, as they could defeat Jevil who has stomped Spamton" or something.
 
It doesn't really mean much since they are already technically downscaling from their chapter 2 selves via Jevil, and we don't know how exactly the battle played out between the Spamton and Jevil.

Besides, this thread's only intention is to apply the calc itself, not to change the scaling, and making the bosses "likely higher" would create some problems, as Kris can fight Spamton NEO on their own.
 
First off... I agree with this CRT. Sad to see UT vs DR match go, tho.


Also... Ignoring Flash's rightful concerns about its being reliable or not.... this calc seems interesting since it is a 9-A feat that is near baseline 8-C , ngl.

character-stats-and-profiles.fandom.com

Undertale calcs

character-stats-and-profiles.fandom.com character-stats-and-profiles.fandom.com

... Offtopic, I know, but Wyatt bought it up first.
 
Flashlight237 said:
Is that even a reliable wiki?
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Ik I’m kinda breaking into the convo but I saw this and I can probably give an answer.
TLDR: yes and no, it’s whole shtick is that anyone can make their own profiles for anyone, so that means multiple people will make profiles for the same character, thus giving them stats across the board. Really up to you to pick what’s considered reliable
 
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