Deltarune: Chapter 5 (SPOILER!!) Discussion Thread

[Randomuser3412]

I don't think calling them evil is really the right wording but they're obviously parking with the Knight yeah

Tryna bring about the end of the world doesss seem pretty evil. I'm not gonna say killing literally every person alive isn't evil because of "looking for Dess" or whatever. Kris's gonna need one hell of a reason for me NOT to call them evil

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Tryna bring about the end of the world doesss seem pretty evil. I'm not gonna say killing literally every person alive isn't evil because of "looking for Dess" or whatever. Kris's gonna need one hell of a reason for me NOT to call them evil

The world is going to end anyway due to the Prophecy so why not at least to try to get something out of it, ya know?

 

[Edutyn]

List Of Calcs 1.2.6

Minor update

 

[Alexander]

The world is going to end anyway due to the Prophecy so why not at least to try to get something out of it, ya know?

But they are trying to prevent the Prophecy (?)

 

[Moon_Crasher]

Where?

Sorry, did I say a few pages back? I apparently meant all the way back in page 12.

 

[Qurbonboev]

Tryna bring about the end of the worl

If they wanted to end the world, they would already have done it.
Roaring itself is inescapable anyways.

Also, did anyone notice how Kris and Susie, while standing in the LW, could clearly see Asgore armor, which exists exclusively in DW. So, from outside perspective DW does look like same as it does inside.
We could have avoided very heated (and pathetically failed) CRT if someone waited a bit for chapter 5. Alas

 

[The_Ghost_Knight]

Also, did anyone notice how Kris and Susie, while standing in the LW, could clearly see Asgore armor, which exists exclusively in DW.

I wonder how that works scaling wise, since Asgore is at least mcb in the dark world while like wall level in the light world.

 

[Edutyn]

I tried to calc to sun luminosity and i got H7-C. I tried to calc to mass of the sun with the luminosity but it got a bit heavier than Jupiter

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Tryna bring about the end of the world doesss seem pretty evil. I'm not gonna say killing literally every person alive isn't evil because of "looking for Dess" or whatever. Kris's gonna need one hell of a reason for me NOT to call them evil

Kris is terrified of the Knight and is seemingly only working for them because of some kind of “promise”, so it’s hard to say how much they’re actually on board with the Knight’s plan.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

the menu stats are a lie

 

[Lou_change]

the menu stats are a lie

Perhaps Aqua can't detect it because it remains functionless being that it is unusable.

 

[Qurbonboev]

the menu stats are a lie

"The Menu stats are a lie"
Posts very strong evidence of them being true.

Ok, Toby is serious on this topic. I am contemplating Yellowing myself.
Either I will find a way to fully separate scaling of fodders and Titan, or I am gonna nuke City scaling (scaling fodders to Titans isn't an option)

 

[Axorandom0]

"The Menu stats are a lie"
Posts very strong evidence of them being true.

Ok, Toby is serious on this topic. I am contemplating Yellowing myself.
Either I will find a way to fully separate scaling of fodders and Titan, or I am gonna nuke City scaling (scaling fodders to Titans isn't an option)

It’s not like they’re directly scaling to the Titans!

(Just… 3x under them according to our SNEO logic…)

 

[Arceus0x]

Option for not scaling fodder to the titan: just don't lmao

 

[LittleGuy99]

Well, since Flowery's profile was cut in half get it? here is the sandbox for you all to discuss and edit!

LittleGuy99/Sandbox0

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[DaReaperMan]

I'd still say that TRK is a glass cannon, so harming it is only '''higher''', not '''far higher'''

 

[Axorandom0]

Well, since Flowery's profile was cut in half get it? here is the sandbox for you all to discuss and edit!

LittleGuy99/Sandbox0

vsbattles.fandom.com

Mysterious wind got to him

 

[Edutyn]

Well, since Flowery's profile was cut in half get it? here is the sandbox for you all to discuss and edit!

LittleGuy99/Sandbox0

vsbattles.fandom.com

Personally, I'd say he should have the resistances of a Lightner and a Darkner.

But i will add. (Some things were taken from FSL, credits to them)

Telepathy: Can read the dialogue in parentheses, which is typically used to represent the characters' thoughts.
NPI: Can interact with dialog boxes, sound effects, and the player's screen itself.

Maybe Law Manipulation & Negation: Can make a Ralsei's option on the CONFIG menu, wich preventes Ralsei from speaking & makes it impossible for him to perform certain actions, while normally he would resolve the puzzle. With Healing Pollen he can restore Ralsei's voice. (?) I don't know, if someone can phrase this better please help.

Resistence to:

Social Influencing: His MERCY bar fills significantly slower than any other enemy's

Law Manipulation: Can ignore being silenced by the game's own settings, noting that the rules are only a suggestion.

Fire Manipulation: Doesn't seems affects by Green's fire

For Omega Flowery:

I will add: In the final clash, he started to overpower Kris

Good Profile!

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Well, since Flowery's profile was cut in half get it? here is the sandbox for you all to discuss and edit!

LittleGuy99/Sandbox0

vsbattles.fandom.com

Probably best for the Subjective Reality section to focus more on why the fake stats aren't just for show. Stuff like Flowery being surprised that the Knight could "ignore [his] fake statistics" implying they have an actual tangible effect, and him attributing how easily he beat the Floradinns to his max stats.
Honestly it and how Flowery was holding back against the Fun Gang both deserve explanation notes, ala ERAM.

Also any reason why Omega Flowery isn't like, x7 his base AP?

 

[Axorandom0]

Personally, I'd say he should have the resistances of a Lightner and a Darkner.

But i will add. (Some things were taken from FSL, credits to them)

Telepathy: Can read the dialogue in parentheses, which is typically used to represent the characters' thoughts.
NPI: Can interact with dialog boxes, sound effects, and the player's screen itself.

Maybe Law Manipulation & Negation: Can make a Ralsei's option on the CONFIG menu, wich preventes Ralsei from speaking & makes it impossible for him to perform certain actions, while normally he would resolve the puzzle. With Healing Pollen he can restore Ralsei's voice. (?) I don't know, if someone can phrase this better please help.

Resistence to:

Social Influencing: His MERCY bar fills significantly slower than any other enemy's

Law Manipulation: Can ignore being silenced by the game's own settings, noting that the rules are only a suggestion.

Fire Manipulation: Doesn't seems affects by Green's fire

For Omega Flowery:

I will add: In the final clash, he started to overpower Kris

Good Profile!

I think the Green’s fire thing can be chalked up to game mechanics (and not the sort we’re using for some of his other abilities). Like, imagine how weird it’d be if the final boss was being hurt by / had to dodge his own bullets?

Maybe we can have it as a possibly rating but I just don’t see it.

 

[LittleGuy99]

Probably best for the Subjective Reality section to focus more on why the fake stats aren't just for show. Stuff like Flowery being surprised that the Knight could "ignore [his] fake statistics" implying they have an actual tangible effect, and him attributing how easily he beat the Floradinns to his max stats.
Honestly it and how Flowery was holding back against the Fun Gang both deserve explanation notes, ala ERAM.

Can you add that? I'm busy with other stuff

Also any reason why Omega Flowery isn't like, x7 his base AP?

As far as I know, there isn't one

 

[Axorandom0]

Also any reason why Omega Flowery isn't like, x7 his base AP?

Kris’ hits can knock him back, Kris can endure taking damage from him, and the whole cinematic clash that Kris can win (yes, I know there he says he hesitated, but I don’t think that’d explains the other showings)

 

[LittleGuy99]

Kris’ hits can knock him back, Kris can endure taking damage from him, and the whole cinematic clash that Kris can win (yes, I know there he says he hesitated, but I don’t think that’d explains the other showings)

Kris upscale

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Kris upscale

Yeah they outdamage Rude Buster when they're not holding back (Against Tenna)

 

[Axorandom0]

Kris upscale

Kris (and prolly Ralsei considering the whole Fireshock and SoJ situation) holding back their power 7x just so Susie can feel like she’s actually doing something worthwhile:

 

[Ti58]

Yeah they outdamage Rude Buster when they're not holding back (Against Tenna)

I think we count this as Rage Power, no?

Kris (and prolly Ralsei considering the whole Fireshock and SoJ situation) holding back their power 7x just so Susie can feel like she’s actually doing something worthwhile:

FireShock does make sense, he says he could burn down Flowery in an instant, which should be also justification for Durability Negation due to him saying he can one shot 99DF Flowery plus the spell being similar to Noelle's.

SoJ is not 7-B here anyway so idk if this specifically can be used as justification for upscale

 

[Axorandom0]

SoJ is not 7-B here anyway so idk if this specifically can be used as justification for upscale

7-B Battat before SoJ (Fire for fireshock)

i cannot wait for the chapter 5 stats crt, that’s gonna be hilarious

 

[Jepilstiltskin]

Well, since Flowery's profile was cut in half get it? here is the sandbox for you all to discuss and edit!

LittleGuy99/Sandbox0

vsbattles.fandom.com

Law Manipulation and Resistance seems to be the general consensus as far as I'm aware. So, should definitely add that.

 

[FinePoint]

I'm re-watching, and it looks like Kris does indeed shove their hand fully into their chest.

The SOUL immediately appears when they do so, and it makes the damage noise and they seem to be in a lot of pain.

So, I don't think it's a metaphor or fully metaphysical, it seems like their hand just sort of temporarily phases through their own body.

 

[DuckyMcLucky]

i think everyone just assumed it was some weird determination toby fox shenanigans and never thought about it LMAO

 

[Ethnikistis]

I don't think calling them evil is really the right wording but they're obviously parking with the Knight yeah

The rest I pretty much I agree with and everyone does as well.

Its kind of weird,since they open up dark fountains and are very much implied to be in leagues with the knight and generally the "evil" side, while still always tries to protect their friends when we are not in control.

 

[Ethnikistis]

Corrected (?) the Flowery recalc, now give from Mach 8 to Mach 22

Why are we assuming superhuman/SoS speed for the Knight,when they should scale according to this site to FTL.

Also I dont think that the blitz counts, since Flowery could barely keep up with the Knight in the first place(and also teleports in some way,or might be just an incalculable gag),but after the 999->000 point,they seem to be equal in speed as they clash.

 

[Randomuser3412]

Why are we assuming superhuman/SoS speed for the Knight,when they should scale according to this site to FTL.

Calc Stacking

Calc stacking refers to the practice of using results from one calculation in order to calculate other feats. Usually calc stacking is believed to be flawed, so that calculations that use it should be disregarded almost always. Usually people try to use it for calculating characters speed, but...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Lilybitdun]

Kris Dreemurr (Deltarune) vs Subaru Natsuki (Re:Zero) [0-0-0]

What happens when two 9-B's with Type 4 & 8 immortality fight? Kris is their Lightworld key while Subaru is his Arc 1-4 key Was worried Beatrice might be too much Kris Dreemurr (Light World): AP: 1.4422817mJ, 6.3 megatons with Creation Speed: Mach 0.96 movement, combat, & reaction speed, Mach...

vsbattles.com

 

[Ethnikistis]

Calc Stacking

Calc stacking refers to the practice of using results from one calculation in order to calculate other feats. Usually calc stacking is believed to be flawed, so that calculations that use it should be disregarded almost always. Usually people try to use it for calculating characters speed, but...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Then whats the point of the calc?
Just slap a FTL(Blitzed the Knight who has this scale blah blah blah) on his profile.

 

[Axorandom0]

Then whats the point of the calc?

Supporting calcs are fun

 

[Ti58]

Due to Chapter 5 revealing that Flowers are beings different than darkners, I decided to make a sandbox showing how I think the Darkner Physiology page should look like. This is very much WIP so far and I think a lot of things need to be added or changed.

As you can see, I don't think that Plants deserve their own physiology page due to sharing most of their abilities with darkners. But then the page can't really be called "Darkner Physiology" anymore, so the name should be changed as well.

 

[Axorandom0]

Due to Chapter 5 revealing that Flowers are beings different than darkners, I decided to make a sandbox showing how I think the Darkner Physiology page should look like. This is very much WIP so far and I think a lot of things need to be added or changed.

As you can see, I don't think that Plants deserve their own physiology page due to sharing most of their abilities with darkners. But then the page can't really be called "Darkner Physiology" anymore, so the name should be changed as well.

Two plant physiologies under the plant section

 

[Ti58]

Two plant physiologies under the plant section

My bad, fixed now lol

 

[Edutyn]

I think the Green’s fire thing can be chalked up to game mechanics (and not the sort we’re using for some of his other abilities). Like, imagine how weird it’d be if the final boss was being hurt by / had to dodge his own bullets?

Maybe we can have it as a possibly rating but I just don’t see it.

Sorry for the late reply.

I mean the Fun Gang can stil be damaged from Green fire in the Flowery fight and vs Green & Orange fight, while neither Flowery, Orange or Green seems affected by the fire even thought the fire is touching them