Deltarune: Chapter 1 Top Tiers Revision

[ZillertheBucko]

Game stats are irrelevant. It's relative difficulty.
First, they are not linear.
Second, most are hidden from the player, and thus, are Game Mechanic.

"relative difficulty" is fake as hell when there's nothing to back it up in the lore pal. Game stats indeed don't matter, which means there's no longer anything that even supports this "power increase" you're claiming exists. Let alone a 12 times increase in power.

I gave you the reasoning. Also, are you new to basic powerscaling? The numerical gap is irrelevant, a person downscaling from a guy who is 0.09 Tons would still be dowscaled to 0.005, a outstanding 40x difference, because this gap is not the metric used when comparing relative scaling. It's how far apart in the hierarchy they are. A lower 9-A and a higher 9-A can still be relative in fiction no matter the gap, it's hierarchically negligible.

By downscaling I meant scaling below, not whatever the wiki does with downscaling to the lower tier. Indeed we don't know the gap between them, but we know we can survive attacks of the same power from the same characters, so they get their scaling from the same value, it's really that simple. One character scales above a feat, one scales below the stronger character, it really just is that simple.

They will keep scaling to the lower feat for being unfathomably below the ones who scale to the higher feat. Either that, or we downscale, which makes them 0.005 Tons instead of 0.006 Tons. Big difference.

Can I just point out that tasque enemies from the earliest area in the chapter still appear in queen's mansion and are still able to harm the player party? Yeah no, this is a joke. There is no "early game vs late game" when it's contained within the same damn chapter. The only power gaps we're probably gonna give are the ones between current level 2 kris and later chapters with level 3-7 party members, since that's an ACTUAL canon and supported increase in strength, vs you just deciding that because you had a (game mechanic based) skill issue when playing the 2nd half of the chapter that you can say the enemies got 12 times stronger.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Let alone a 12 times increase in power.

You're a brick wall, and ignored all I said about relative scaling. "Hurr durr X times increase".

By downscaling I meant scaling below, not whatever the wiki does with downscaling to the lower tier.

You're on the wiki, do it by it's rules or just go cry about it somewhere else. They'd downscale to 0.005 Tons, or no deal.

Now go argue about it somewhere else and piss off. This thread's purpose has been fulfilled.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

You're a brick wall, and ignored all I said about relative scaling. "Hurr durr X times increase".

You're on the wiki, do it by it's rules or just go cry about somewhere else. They'd downscale to 0.005 Tons, or no deal.

Now go make a thread about it somewhere else and piss off.

The downscaling thing is completely semantics, I simply chose the wrong word and now you’re getting pissy about it. They would scale to the same thing, they would just be below the top tiers on the scaling chain which starts at that feat. And wow, you ******* cherry picked the part about 12 times.
here are the facts:

1. Enemies from the very beginning of the chapter appear at the very end, and are still capable of harming the player party regardless of what point in the game they’re in.
2. There is absolutely no required canon increase in power for either the player party or the reoccurring basic enemies of the chapter.

As long as both of these are true, which they are, you’re just spouting your headcanon at the poor people witnessing this thread. Gimme a break with this arbitrary line of reasoning.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

If you admit you’re wrong I’ll give you a cookie.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

1. Enemies from the very beginning of the chapter appear at the very end, and are still capable of harming the player party regardless of what point in the game they’re in.

I'll admit this is a very good point, and will concede on the matter.
But let's not discuss this here.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

If you admit you’re wrong I’ll give you a cookie.

Now give me focken' cookie before I throw you down a flight

 

[ShockingPsychic]

While I'm not entirely against the upgrade, I do have some concerns.

I don't think we should assume that Spamton lost a battle against Jevil just because he mentions losing in a game. Jevil uses the term "game" in more than just in his battle, here's something Seam says;

• "Soon, he began to see the world as a game, and everyone as its participants."

and;

• "Reflecting on these old memories, I think, perhaps - I miss playing games with him."

To Jevil, everything is a game, even life itself. The only game of his we know to be a battle is his "numbers game", which he has given a specific title to.

Spamton's full quote is, upon being shown a picture of Jevil:

• "DON'T SHOW ME THIS [fool] IN [clown's clothing]!!! ALL HE THINKS ABOUT IS [Games, Games, Games] WHILE I'M OUT HERE [Busting my @$$] INTO A [Sc3nt3d Candell]!!! EVEN IF I [Cheated] [(theoretically)] I NEVER [You're Winner] EVEN ONCE!!! ($#&*] HIM AND [$#&* the ketchup kids]!!!"

This, to me, still doesn't imply that this game was a battle, it's still as vague as it ever was. Spamton could have "cheated" to get more fame, more freedom, or just a better life, but failed. Or maybe it's literal, Spamton played an actual game, and despite cheating, he couldn't win.

The line "just watch out for the [@#$%] that use Death/Scythe", I still don't think this implies a battle ever took place. This line seems to be the Darkner verison of "watch out for people who use Axe body spray". Spamton is warning the reader about individuals who use Death/Scythe attacks, which is a reference to Deltarune's element system.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

"Reflecting on these old memories, I think, perhaps - I miss playing games with him."

Actually maybe Seam could use this as supporting evidence for scaling above jevil, since we know he's strong enough to lock him up. Maybe they threw hands in the past too.

Also Jevil's the only scythe user we know of so, there's that.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

this is completely relevant but my spamton plush just arrived at my doorstep

 

[ShockingPsychic]

Actually maybe Seam could use this as supporting evidence for scaling above jevil, since we know he's strong enough to lock him up. Maybe they threw hands in the past too.

Also Jevil's the only scythe user we know of so, there's that.

Again, this is going with the assumption that every "game" Jevil plays involves battling, when it seems to be a variety of things. We only really know that his Numbers Game is a battle

 

[ShockingPsychic]

this is completely relevant but my spamton plush just arrived at my doorstep

cover him in milk and throw him at the wall

 

[GodlyCharmander]

• "Soon, he began to see the world as a game, and everyone as its participants."

This just means Jevil was going into a killing spree, and he said after he was free he was going to "play" with everyone, implying the same number game.

• "Reflecting on these old memories, I think, perhaps - I miss playing games with him."

To Jevil, everything is a game, even life itself. The only game of his we know to be a battle is his "numbers game", which he has given a specific title to.

This is headcanon, I'm sorry. We've seen a total of one game from him, the burden of proof is on you to provide any other possible scenario.

Spamton's full quote is, upon being shown a picture of Jevil:

• "DON'T SHOW ME THIS [fool] IN [clown's clothing]!!! ALL HE THINKS ABOUT IS [Games, Games, Games] WHILE I'M OUT HERE [Busting my @$$] INTO A [Sc3nt3d Candell]!!! EVEN IF I [Cheated] [(theoretically)] I NEVER [You're Winner] EVEN ONCE!!! ($#&*] HIM AND [$#&* the ketchup kids]!!!"

This, to me, still doesn't imply that this game was a battle--

Brother, that's why it's only a piece of the evidence. Why are you trying to debunk a part of the evidence instead of the entire context?

"Well, it doesn't prove it was a battle"
Obviously, that was not the intention of the evidence, it was just to prove Spamton played a game with Jevil, and the only one we see Jevil playing is the number game, which is a fight. Proving it was a fight was what the next piece of evidence was trying to do.

The line "just watch out for the [@#$%] that use Death/Scythe", I still don't think this implies a battle ever took place. This line seems to be the Darkner verison of "watch out for people who use Axe body spray". Spamton is warning the reader about individuals who use Death/Scythe attacks, which is a reference to Deltarune's element system.

Again, headcanon of the highest degree. He literally references Jevil's "type" and weapon while saying "Never again", implying he has experienced it before. This on top of all the evidence of them interacting and Spamton's wish to surpass him should leave no reasonable doubt.

This is unreasonable, you're playing Devil's advocate for literal no reason.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

This was already applied, please just close it already. You may make another thread if you wish to downgrade them again, idc