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Delsin Rowe vs James Heller

Right because Greene specializes on using things such as psychic energy and that wasn't just a conventional attack. It could've been just acid for all we know. This is gonna turn like Delsin vs Corvo since you keep ignoring the questions I'm asking such as on speed and other factors. I already poked holes in your arguments and you claim otherwise like the black knight from Monty Python claiming "tis just a flesh wound."

And is it really a democracy if everyone just single handedly votes once upon seeing one argument, and then never voting again once that argument has been refuted? I'm not questioning the legitimacy of the voting system here but frankly it can be pretty annoying when in truth only one person is representing one character and everyone else just goes "Oh what he said" and doesn't ever come back to the thread again that could've had a different character winning.
 
Aka ignore me about a simple question such as when I asked why does the grenade launcher count as hypersonic.

But no seriously, just answer that at least. If you don't want to try and debate against me just because you're losing it's fine but at least answer that question that is not being acknowledged
 
I'm pretty sure it's comes from scaling to Alex, who perceived Greene's shockwave in slow motion

And I'm not giving up because I'm losing, I just don't care anymore because it's obvious neither of us are gonna concede. We've talked about all of these things before, and we got nowhere.

Them being made of energy 24/7? Already talked about. I said there was little to no evidence (Them being restrained by concrete, drugs effecting them, them showing signs of having internal organs, etc). Then you're gonna go on to make WIDE assumptions and say "It's SPECIAL concrete" or "They're similar to Logia's but they can turn it off and on whenever they're in battle."

Speed, already talked about. Delsin is faster in travel speed and can turn intangible. He can out speed Heller easily. But Heller does have faster reaction speed and better range.

You're making it seem like Heller can't do anything to Delsin, which is blatantly false. Heller isn't some punk. He's an adaptating virus with the experience of hundreds of soldiers, scientists and government leaders. Speed isn't the sole factor

Heller can take a ton of more damage and can still keep fight. A lost limb won't even slow him down. I'm pretty sure Del would be slightly caught off guard when a guy whose just been delimbed keeps barreling toward him.

And don't downplay Heller's healing factor. If Deleon gets cocky, and leaves even a small piece of Heller behind, he can be consumed.

And Heller did technically did tank an explosion. Remember the opening cutscene with Alex, who shrugged of an RPG? There's also the thermobaric tanks?

It states on several wikis, including this one, that prototypes lack a solid bone structure, making them nigh immune to blunt force damage. Them being hurt by physical blows in game can be game mechanics. Also, notice how I said NIGH-immune.

I stand by my vote.
 
I already countered this months ago. Nothing implies Greene's shockwave to be even close to Mach values. It's irrelevant.

Talked a lot, we only started talking about this recently between these two.

My argument was that if James tries to him is that he'll logically turn into energy particles and get away to dodge because he can react to James who's questionable on being hypersonic in the first place.

And I informed you how nothing really backs up James' speed feat. And the fact that James doesn't even specialize that much in range, and his tendrils are predictable at most. It leaves him vulnerable as he shoots them forward.

Right, scary, wanna play that game, conduits get stronger over time and can always give trouble to the military. Delsin easily adapts to enemy tactics and is always beating up the DUP which had seven years of practice taking down various conduits like him. Experience also doesn't really mean anything if you can't even grab a hold of the enemy.

Yeah like what happened to Alex? You know, keep cutting his limbs off and he suddenly cannot regenerate anymore? Of course he's not useless but if you keep getting ripped apart into pieces you're not gonna stand a chance.

And don't wank his healing factor. When has a single one of them regenerated from a pile of goop and started fighting instantly? And don't use speculative information such as "He got stronger over time" because we don't know the true rate of growth of his stats. No one does and that's very very very unclear. Which is why I avoid the conduits get stronger over time rule anyway. Sometimes I even question why they get stronger over time, considering there's a limit to their biomass in game and that in theory they would become slower and heavier as time passes and they would use more and more biomass to keep themselves up. But ignore this part, I'm speculating on that.

Right, and where did I say he did not? If anything I clarified it when I asked back then and then I never clarified again.

Aaand you realize Delsin is anything but blunt force?....

Coincidence, so am I.

Unless there's something more solid for hypersonic Prototype, because even the supersonic feats I shut down, he's going to be running in circles.
 
@COB Uhhhh no as energy Manipulation especially neon doesn't mean the attack speed for Delsin is Speed of Light as game mechanics are involved plus we don't even know if it will be truly be speed of light for that matter.
 
It's photons. Literally described as lasers too and no one has theoretically dodged the attacks unless they were using neon dash.

And even barring that, it would only mean that the speed advantage is more consistent on Delsin's side. Not to mention the fact that hi tier conduits are MHS+. And Delsin is one of the very few labelled as such. And even with that, Delsin still has the advantage of being able to quickly get around and would be either equal in speed if not better. And he would still get the advantage in maneuverability.
 
@COB Again we know that Photons can not become tangible. In fact the fact that Delsin turn into Neon and becoming tangible make it petty obvious it wouldn't be speed of light reactions plus we see Delsin getting damaged when he is running as a Neon-enpowered conduit.
 
If we're applying real life laws to a lot of fictional franchises a lot of things won't make sense.

I'm not denying he can't be damaged. I'm denying that James can even reach him. And that doesn't still disregard the issue that Delsin can split apart into various particles of light and reform easily.
 
I never once claimed Prototypes get stronger over time. I don't even know where that came from. I don't even agree with that statement. The only thing that supports that statement is their adaptability and advanced evolution, but that comes from mutations that come from things they consume.

I wasn't there for your Greene feat shut down, so if you debunked it and it was accepted by the community at large, fine.

I know Delsin doesn't really on just blunt force, I'm just saying that it makes his Concrete power basically useless.

With their speed now on more equal terms, it's a whole new ball game.

Don't downplay Heller's experience. That means something. Sure, Delsin can keep up with DUP agents in battle and can discover Augustine's plan, but Heller has been trained. If he realizes he can't keep up (which is now even more debatable than before, except for Delsim in Neon form) it's not like he's gonna stand there and panic. He's gonna try to get away and form a plan, gather biomass, heal, disguise himself to disappear.

And like I said, he can still exist as cells. That counts for something.
 
Alright, I must've misread then.

Alright.

It doesn't make it useless if it allows Delsin to constantly regenerate and keep on hovering away. And it's still gonna knock away James and daze him. Otherwise he can't be beaten by Alex with hammerfists on the first place.

Well, he certainly has been using his experience with extensive detail with how he acts and fights screaming in rage. The closest thing to using his experience was the rock-paper-scissors esque part of the final match. Do you think he'll have time to get away from Delsin who always quickly recovers? Just because he got a bit of training doesn't mean he's gonna win all the time. What exactly will he do? Delsin could do the same and if you argue James is gonna amass a force, Delsin could persuade the military to help him or just keep sniping at James from a block away. And I still see no explanation to how Delsin can't disintegrate James with his attacks that turn people into light particles.

It's more equal if we use low ends for Delsin sure.

Is he going to regenerate from that and immediately get back to fighting however? Like I said he's no Beast. Alex was already tired just being goopified after consuming the Supreme Hunter but being turned to cells? That's just too absurd. That's a KO.
 
I said nigh-immune to blunt force. And I already said it's good for healing.

Still, his training can still help him out of a bind. He's not all rage. Also, don't forget that Heller can disguise himself as a civilian he's consumed. Delsin doesn't have Cole's radar pulse capable of exposing enemies, so if Heller can utilize stealth, he may gain an advantage.

It states on several wikis, including this one, that he can regenerate on a cellular level as long as he has biomass. The fact that he is still as cell means there's still biomass left, he'd just have to absorb a bunch of people to regain form as strength.

The neon beam doesn't turn people into light particles it vaporizes people. That means it requires a certain amount of energy.
 
@PTSO Wait what? No just no. I understand that Neon is being utilized as Delsin's Conduit Power, but I don't buy it being a legit vaporization feat because we don't see soldiers to dying those said beams by being vaporized. Vaporization is being turn from a liquid to a gas.
 
I don't deny that it's good for healing but he hasn't healed through energy beams before that specialize in vaporizing people.

Yes, but when would he find the time for that when he's being watched by Delsin? And it's not like Delsin won't be suspicious of a single person walking towards him when he either A) stayed good and told them to run, or B) killed everyone cause he's evil? It's a possibility but overall it's only good for recovering health, and it's not as if he'll instal heal himself either.

Then why was Alex beaten without having to regenerate from a cellular level? Feats shown in cutscenes kinda take precedence over details in the wiki that could've come from a statement in a Web of Intrigue. At least that's where I assume it came from and they probably were overblowing their Regenerationn level.

Vaporizing. There you go. Bad wording on my part but still not gonna be something James can shrug off.

@Starkiller215 How about the time when Abigail can vaporize people back then?
 
Its not that they "specializ" in vaporizing people. There's obviously a level of durability that plays into whether or not the beam will vaporize you, or else Fetch would've destroyed Delsin in their first fight.

Like I said, Heller can strategize. He could take advantage of Delsin covering an area with smoke to sneak away and disguise himself as an injured civilian needing help. Delsin goes to heal them, then boom, sneak attack. And like you said, in an intense battle like this, there's eventually going to be a buildup of smoke and dust, which Heller can use to sneak away.

I think you're forgetting that Alex was shredded and delimbed several times during that fight. Heller was STEALING his biomass. His total biomass was probably less than what it was when he fought the supreme hunter, and he was basically ready to die anyway. And like I said, it's stated on several wikis.
 
I mean the vaporizing is just effective in disintegrating people. Either way, what would be the amount necessary to disintegrate something made and composed entirely of enhanced concrete that can take numerous explosions? Pretty high. Of course it still doesn't mean James is immune to it because he has a higher durability. Otherwise things like tasers and energy lasers won't pierce/be effective against them.

That's a fairer tactic, much more believable. If given the chance that'll be an effective tactic

I'm not forgetting. Rather I know that Alex wasn't shredded to pieces nor did James consume a single piece of him in that fight. He just tossed everything out.

@Starkiller

My bad on wording
 
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