Deletion of MGQ

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Proof has been provided for it being a **** game, where’s the goddamn proof of the contrary. If it’s that hard to actually prove that MGQ is more than rape **** on a clearly younger-looking man by extremely oddly proportioned hentai monsters, then chances are it’s not okay.

Here's an 80 minute video of continuous gameplay from the end of the latest Paradox game and it has no sex nor rape. Its mostly just lore dumping.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

That isn't really proof of it being a non-**** game given the evidence compiled against it. And of course the website your video is on has similar rules to ours. So like it would be impossible (barring finding something against YouTube's policies) to actually find your pornography game on there. Videos can be edited and as said before, shit can be avoided, that doesn't change the purpose.

 

[Jaften]

I'd like to bring up the earlier "we look at this franchise as a whole" argument and turn it on its head.

Let's grant the claim that Paradox doesn't have any mandatory sex in it. I'm not sure this is true but I also can't disprove it.

...It's still indispensably linked to a game where sexual assault and rape are literal attacks in the game and are unavoidable.

We look at the franchise as a whole, and at least one-third of it is a literal **** game about enduring overt rape attacks from monster girls.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

That isn't really proof of it being a non-**** game given the evidence compiled against it. And of course the website your video is on has similar rules to ours. So like it would be impossible (barring finding something against YouTube's policies) to actually find your pornography game on there. Videos can be edited and as said before, shit can be avoided, that doesn't change the purpose.

The video is literally unedited. Like I said all the sex in Paradox is optional and the stuff about sexual attacks doesn't apply to it either.

Also what does "purpose" mean? You keep talking as if this is an Arcade-style game with an objective like earning points. There is no inherent "purpose" for the story's existing. Sure it has sex and its undeniable that much of it is meant for the arousal of the player, but how is that bad in itself either? There are plenty of other verses here with explicit sex scenes meant for the same "purpose", I fail to see how its an issue.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

See my other points.

I'm acting like every bit of advertising and implicit intent to the game is about losing to get raped. This of course assumes we ignore the titles where such things aren't avoidable. I don't care about your "but what about ____" statements when I'm just as happy to send them off the way of Old Yeller. The game's intent, as stated by all evidence from the community and advertisements, is to lose. Whether it has a particularly interesting plot tied to this isn't relevant and is a continuous and dishonest attempt to portray the verse as something it is not- pornography.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

See my other points.

Your point is going "But Google". Throughout this thread it is readily apparent that you never read the series nor have any passing familiarity with it as a story, and so you just dismiss it all out of a personal disbelief on its supposed content.

I'm acting like every bit of advertising and implicit intent to the game is about losing to get raped.

Ever heard of a concept called "sucker punch", or intentionall misleading advertising? That would be looking to an add for Doki Doki Literature Club and assuming its a happy-go-lucky dating sim. Hell, one of the most popular Visual Novels of all time: Muv-Luv, was not only advertisied and sold as Highschool Harem Eroge, but it actually includes 15 hours of that content before pulling the curtain and revealing that its actually a Post-Apocalyptic Mecha Series. The advertising of "Play this game, it has monster girls and rape!" only to hit the player with a story about religious indocrination and racial intolerance and heroism persevering against cosmic threats honestly feels very deliberate to me.

I don't care about your "but what about ____" statements when I'm just as happy to send them off the way of Old Yeller

That just proves you're a puritan and that your personal standards shouldn't lead anyone.

Whether it has a particularly interesting plot tied to this isn't relevant and is a continuous and dishonest attempt to portray the verse as something it is not- pornography.

How is the inclusion of pornography content bad. How does it diminish its value as an art form?

 

[Jaften]

The advertising of "Play this game, it has monster girls and rape!" only to hit the player with a story about religious indocrination and racial intolerance and heroism persevering against cosmic threats honestly feels very deliberate to me.

I mean, it is about monster girls and rape. The characters literally have "attacks" that are just overtly sexual assault. It's not just "lose = rape", the rape is happening regardless of if you lose or not.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I mean, it is about monster girls and rape. The characters literally have "attacks" that are just overtly sexual assault.

Yes, and? The inherent hostile nature of most monster girls is literally an important plot point in the series and its explained that this is the result of Ilias' religious indocrination and the millennia of isolation and distrust it propagated. By the end of the game and after her defeat Luka and Alice are able to reintegrate them back into society and create a more peaceful world.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Yes, and? The inherent hostile nature of most monster girls is literally an important plot point in the series and its explained that this is the result of Ilias' religious indocrination and the millennia of isolation and distrust it propagated. By the end of the game and after her defeat Luka and Alice are able to reintegrate them back into society and create a more peaceful world.

Plot point does not make it okay Matt.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

"Your point is going "But Google". Throughout this thread it is readily apparent that you never read the series nor have any passing familiarity with it as a story, and so you just dismiss it all out of a personal disbelief on its supposed content."

Ignoring points, then. You are correct, I have not played the hentai game. I have researched enough to point out that it is a hentai game to a sufficient capacity to this thread, points of evidence that you have not yet actually disproved outside of saying "yeah but there's a story!" which I don't find to be a compelling argument at all. Every single piece of evidence from the community outside of this wiki says its a **** game. Admittedly a **** game with more story on in later installments, but a **** game nonetheless- now, is it more likely they're lying, or you?

"Ever heard of a concept called "sucker punch", or intentionall misleading advertising? That would be looking to an add for Doki Doki Literature Club and assuming its a happy-go-lucky dating sim. Hell, one of the most popular Visual Novels of all time: Muv-Luv, was not only advertisied and sold as Highschool Harem Eroge, but it actually includes 15 hours of that content before pulling the curtain and revealing that its actually a Post-Apocalyptic Mecha Series. The advertising of "Play this game, it has monster girls and rape!" only to hit the player with a story about religious indocrination and racial intolerance and heroism persevering against cosmic threats honestly feels very deliberate to me."

I don't see why this would be the case here. It is presented as a **** game where you can be raped by your enemies, in the game you can be raped by your enemies. Where's the lie, Matt? Christsake.

"That just proves you're a puritan and that your personal standards shouldn't lead anyone."

I don't really care what you think of me, man. I'm upholding the rules of the site, you're in the way because you want your hentai on display.

"How is the inclusion of pornography content bad. How does it diminish its value as an art form?"

I'm not tackling this one, someone else can let him in on the 21st century if they like. Perhaps someone for whom it is not currently 1:20 AM.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Plot point does not make it okay Matt.

Making or not making it okay is entirely subjective and based on your personal morals, it is not a valid argument.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Shields, you're free to contribute to the discussion if you can do it without being childish. Stop trying to make jabs at people. Consider this your warning.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Ignoring points, then. You are correct, I have not played the hentai game. I have researched enough to point out that it is a hentai game to a sufficient capacity to this thread, points of evidence that you have not yet actually disproved outside of saying "yeah but there's a story!" which I don't find to be a compelling argument at all. Every single piece of evidence from the community outside of this wiki says its a **** game. Admittedly a **** game with more story on in later installments, but a **** game nonetheless- now, is it more likely they're lying, or you?

So you are talking about something which you admittedly have no knowledge of beyond looking at some wikis and are using your personal incredulity to dismiss it all.

I am not lying, I am merely not letting its nature as a game with pornographic content distract me from the fact that my interest towards the game - and indeed, that of literally all of the fanbase that I can tell and have interacted with - stems from the storyline and characters. I am not being prudish unlike those who are personally appaled at some of the content.

I don't see why this would be the case here. It is presented as a **** game where you can be raped by your enemies, in the game you can be raped by your enemies. Where's the lie, Matt? Christsake.

It's not about a lie, its about advertising it based on sex and then presenting the player with a story that changes their perspective. The fact that the first installment (Part 1 of the first game) literally has a "Lose and be r*ped!" subtitle tagline but Part 2 and 3 don't is telling. The fact that in Part 3 almost all of the enemy monsters are grotesque lovecraftian abominations with tentacles and maws and eyes who are absolutely not presented as attractive but horrific is also more telling to me.

I don't really care what you think of me, man. I'm upholding the rules of the site, you're in the way because you want your hentai on display.

The other examples presented by me are not hentai! That your first instinct on hearing about "explicit sex scene" is to assume its hentai and that it should be deleted is telling to me as well. It shows an aversion to sex if nothing else.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Making or not making it okay is entirely subjective and based on your personal morals, it is not a valid argument.

It violates the rules of VS Battles wiki. Agressive and explicit rape is a plot point of Monster Girl Quest, in attacks, do I need to make this more clear Matthew? My patience has run out. I'm going to watch Bob Ross now, probably for 30 minutes. Then I'll be back to tear the counter to pieces.

 

[Sera_EX]

Lina / Shields, whatever you want to be called, stop talking to me. I don’t want anything to do with you given our history. Back off.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

"So you are talking about something which you admittedly have no knowledge of beyond looking at some wikis and are using your personal incredulity to dismiss it all.

I am not lying, I am merely not letting its nature as a game with pornographic content distract me from the fact that my interest towards the game - and indeed, that of literally all of the fanbase that I can tell and have interacted with - stems from the storyline and characters. I am not being prudish unlike those who are personally appaled at some of the content."

Matt I don't need to know the mechanics of an MP40 to understand it is a gun, nor must I read a book on the biology of an elephant to identify it as such. The communities of the game, the advertisements, etc etc etc, all proclaim it as **** and display copious discussion of it as a **** game with the intent to be raped. Your sole defense here is that "well you didn't play it or watch it"- sure, fair, I guess. But that doesn't change any of the facts presented.

You admit its ****, then. Good. We have a consensus.

"It's not about a lie, its about advertising it based on sex and then presenting the player with a story that changes their perspective. The fact that the first installment (Part 1 of the first game) literally has a "Lose and be r*ped!" subtitle tagline but Part 2 and 3 don't is telling. The fact that in Part 3 almost all of the enemy monsters are grotesque lovecraftian abominations with tentacles and maws and eyes who are absolutely not presented as attractive but horrific is also more telling to me."

Your claim was that the advertising was purposefully misleading. It was not. It said exactly what was in the game. It even, if it makes you any happier, mentions that Paradox does indeed have more story- convoluted stuff, too, from what I'm told. This just isn't relevant to the discussion. It is pornography, into the trash chute it goes. I won't get into how tentacles play into it being ****, you're free to make whatever mental connections you like.

"The other examples presented by me are not hentai! That your first instinct on hearing about "explicit sex scene" is to assume its hentai and that it should be deleted is telling to me as well. It shows an aversion to sex if nothing else."

The verse is ****, Matt. What are you even doing.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Matt I don't need to know the mechanics of an MP40 to understand it is a gun, nor must I read a book on the biology of an elephant to identify it as such. The communities of the game, the advertisements, etc etc etc, all proclaim it as **** and display copious discussion of it as a **** game with the intent to be raped. Your sole defense here is that "well you didn't play it or watch it"- sure, fair, I guess. But that doesn't change any of the facts presented.

You admit its ****, then. Good. We have a consensus.

You didn't play it. You are still using advertising as your main source of evidence. You don't have authority to talk on the subject, its simple as is.

And how is that bad? You still haven't answered how it having "pornographic content" discredits it as an art form.

Your claim was that the advertising was purposefully misleading. It was not. It said exactly what was in the game. It even, if it makes you any happier, mentions that Paradox does indeed have more story- convoluted stuff, too, from what I'm told. This just isn't relevant to the discussion. It is pornography, into the trash chute it goes. I won't get into how tentacles play into it being ****, you're free to make whatever mental connections you like.

No, it's not. Again you are completely dismissive of whatever merit the story might have because the content subjectively bothers you, it seems. The existence of a content in the game does not mean an advertising focusing on it is wrong. Again, the Visual Novel Muv-Luv Extra/Unlimited contains around 15 hours of Highschool Harem romantic comedy anticts complete with multiple sex scenes before the game reveals that it's actually a gritty and violent post-apocalyptic Mecha Story. All the marketing when the game was first released sold it as a Highschool Harem Eroge. The marketing was misleading, even if the content was there.

The verse is ****, Matt. What are you even doing.

I am obviously replying to the other examples and I and other users provided which you, also in this thread, expressed the desire to delete as well as a gut-reaction.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

"You didn't play it. You are still using advertising as your main source of evidence. You don't have authority to talk on the subject, its simple as is.

And how is that bad? You still haven't answered how it having "pornographic content" discredits it as an art form."

My last points could literally be copy-pasted to counter this in an acceptable way. I don't have to play your hentai to realize it is in fact hentai. And thus in violation of our rules. It really is that simple.

"No, it's not. Again you are completely dismissive of whatever merit the story might have because the content subjectively bothers you, it seems. The existence of a content in the game does not mean an advertising focusing on it is wrong. Again, the Visual Novel Muv-Luv Extra/Unlimited contains around 15 hours of Highschool Harem romantic comedy anticts complete with multiple sex scenes before the game reveals that it's actually a gritty and violent post-apocalyptic Mecha Story. All the marketing when the game was first released sold it as a Highschool Harem Eroge. The marketing was misleading, even if the content was there."

I am dismissive of it because it doesn't really matter for the purposes of our wiki and the rules we have, Matthew. I can't give less of a shit for those other verses, as I've said at multiple times. What-about-isms aren't a defense, they are a distraction. The sooner you learn this the better.

"I am obviously replying to the other examples and I and other users provided which you, also in this thread, expressed the desire to delete as well as a gut-reaction."

If you really can't read, I can't help you. I stated that if they were truly the exact same level as MGQ, then yes, they should be deleted. I then went on to say that I strongly doubted that they were, and can even plainly say that several examples clearly aren't, and to ignore this is dishonest. You've now ignored that statement, which I believe is scientifically known as Dishonesty Squared.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

My last points could literally be copy-pasted to counter this in an acceptable way. I don't have to play your hentai to realize it is in fact hentai. And thus in violation of our rules. It really is that simple.

Eroge are not in violation of wiki rules. How do you determine when one is acceptable and one isn't. Do you get the total amount of words in the game's script and compare the amount of words in sex scenes and non-sex scenes to see? In Japan a game that has 3 sex scenes in 100 hours of text total and a game titled "******* My Little Sisters!" which is nothing but sex get the exact same age rating and are sold as the exact type of game.

I am dismissive of it because it doesn't really matter for the purposes of our wiki and the rules we have, Matthew. I can't give less of a shit for those other verses, as I've said at multiple times. What-about-isms aren't a defense, they are a distraction. The sooner you learn this the better.

It's not a whataboutism, its a far comparison that serves to illustrate my point. Argument by analogy is one of the simplest to make and understand.

If you really can't read, I can't help you. I stated that if they were truly the exact same level as MGQ, then yes, they should be deleted. I then went on to say that I strongly doubted that they were, and can even plainly say that several examples clearly aren't, and to ignore this is dishonest. You've now ignored that statement, which I believe is scientifically known as Dishonesty Squared.

You should stop insulting my reading comprehension. If I missed something then it is my fault, but I do think its very dishonest to immediately attack someone over it. I would rather this discussion be polite so I apologize if I offended you by implying anything.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

"Eroge are not in violation of wiki rules. How do you determine when one is acceptable and one isn't. Do you get the total amount of words in the game's script and compare the amount of words in sex scenes and non-sex scenes to see? In Japan a game that has 3 sex scenes in 100 hours of text total and a game titled "******* My Little Sisters!" which is nothing but sex get the exact same age rating and are sold as the exact type of game."

Pornography is. See the discussion across the rest of the thread. I don't care what they do in Japan.

"It's not a whataboutism, its a far comparison that serves to illustrate my point. Argument by analogy is one of the simplest to make and understand."

It literally is, given you tried to use my response (and misquote it) to point to how I'm just a puritan bible-thumper.

"You should stop insulting my reading comprehension. If I missed something then it is my fault, but I do think its very dishonest to immediately attack someone over it. I would rather this discussion be polite so I apologize if I offended you by implying anything."

You should learn to read, then. You've insulted me at several points so I really don't appreciate you now trying to make it seem like I'm bearing down on you, given you've now also lied at nigh-every turn to defend this verse. My statements have been clear, simple, and easy to understand- virtues you yourself defend your own to be. And yet you misconstrued them whereas I have countered each of yours. It's disheartening, Matt, it really is.

 

[DaReaperMan]

It violates the rules of VS Battles wiki. Agressive and explicit rape is a plot point of Monster Girl Quest, in attacks, do I need to make this more clear Matthew?

I'm back. And I see no counter to this. This shows that you're grasping at straws matt.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

This isn't about chiding the opposition, to be clear. I suspect Matt is aware of the point being left unanswered and hasn't posited that he has countered it, to my knowledge.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Pornography is. See the discussion across the rest of the thread. I don't care what they do in Japan.

So you won't address the gist of the argument in any way. That is very troubling for the sake of open discussion. Can you even attempt to acknowledge how you determine that and how you address the double standard?

It literally is, given you tried to use my response (and misquote it) to point to how I'm just a puritan bible-thumper.

I cannot know for sure but I feel you give the vibes with how immediately dismissive you are of something for hving explicit sexual content meant to arouse, and how you haven't addressed how something being **** or not affects its value as art.

matt

This point is irrelevant. Sexual Combat isn't exclusive to **** and I've seen it in several non-pornographic anime and manga

 

[DaReaperMan]

This isn't about chiding the opposition, to be clear. I suspect Matt is aware of the point being left unanswered and hasn't posited that he has countered it, to my knowledge.

Probably, I've regained my patience but not completely my mood, but I don't want to miss the end of this thread

 

[DaReaperMan]

Matthew, Japan is far more lenient on **** and hentai, what is Eroge there is a **** game in the US(and other countries), that is the point.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Probably, I've regained my patience but not completely my mood, but I don't want to miss the end of this thread

I think your point is entirely based on your personal subjective perception of the content, and how it appears abhorrent based on your own personal morons. Explicit Rape being a plot point does not make something about wiki rules, neither does sexual-based combat. We literally have profiles for verses whose mechanics involve orgasming and lactation and we get around it by simply not including it in the profiles. That has always been the way it was done.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Matthew, Japan is far more lenient on **** and hentai, what is Eroge there is a **** game in the US(and other countries), that is the point.

Japan is less lenient actually, there is no differentiation between "NC-17 Rating" and "X-Rating" in Japan.

 

[Sera_EX]

Matthew, Japan is far more lenient on **** and hentai

No it’s not, and I live here.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I think your point is entirely based on your personal subjective perception of the content, and how it appears abhorrent based on your own personal morons. Explicit Rape being a plot point does not make something about wiki rules, neither does sexual-based combat. We literally have profiles for verses whose mechanics involve orgasming and lactation and we get around it by simply not including it in the profiles. That has always been the way it was done.

Then why are two Bureaucrats, and about half of the other Admins and mods, agreeing to delete MGQ? They more then anyone, should know the rules of the wiki better then me. I don't give a rats ass about moral discussions, if this wiki allowed things like that, I'd suck it up and deal with it, but the verse is very fetishistic and has many instances of rape, and overall is against the rules of the wiki

They don't like rape, or naked mods, they are 100% fine with everything else to my knowledge, but my knowledge on how Japan handles such things isn't the best.

 

[AKM sama]

I'd appreciate if the back and forth stopped. Like, I can see the arguments have been laid out here. Matt and Sera disagree with MGQ being treated as a "****" game, while many others disagree. Let's call more staff to see what they think.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I'd appreciate if the back and forth stopped. Like, I can see the arguments have been laid out here. Matt and Sera disagree with MGQ being treated as a "****" game, while many others disagree. Let's call more staff to see what they think.

All of this, I'm done trying to nip at people. And we need more opinions.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I have still asked why something being or containing **** devalues it.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

"So you won't address the gist of the argument in any way. That is very troubling for the sake of open discussion. Can you even attempt to acknowledge how you determine that and how you address the double standard?"

There isn't a double standard. The intent and severity are obviously relative. You are comparing something like Monster Girl Quest, which again, I cannot state enough, is advertised as a game in which you are purposefully and repeatedly raped, sometimes to death, often with the attacks of enemies in these combat encounters emulating this, all for the pleasure of the player, to something like Berserk, which uses rape as a traumatic and horrific plot device. Sex alone does not pornography make.

"I cannot know for sure but I feel you give the vibes with how immediately dismissive you are of something for hving explicit sexual content meant to arouse, and how you haven't addressed how something being **** or not affects its value as art."

I'm very dismissive of your points given they've failed to account for mine many times by now and have taken to being passive-aggressive rather than productive. I don't give a shit if a verse has a sex scene. I give a shit when a verse is about being raped for the pleasure of the player. There is an obvious distinction there.

"Matthew, Japan is far more lenient on **** and hentai, what is Eroge there is a **** game in the US(and other countries), that is the point."

Let's literally not do that, Reaper. Thanks.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I don't give a rats ass about moral discussions, if this wiki allowed things like that, I'd suck it up and deal with it, but the verse is very fetishistic and has many instances of rape, and overall is against the rules of the wiki

... You said you don't care about moral discussions but used an argument entirely based on morality where you call something "fetishistic" as a detriment in the same sentence?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I'd appreciate if the back and forth stopped. Like, I can see the arguments have been laid out here. Matt and Sera disagree with MGQ being treated as a "****" game, while many others disagree. Let's call more staff to see what they think.

I think that's fair, though some staff members have voiced disinterest in speaking up given the toxicity of the thread, or just generally not wishing to be affiliated with the discussion. I can ask 'em again, though, of course, though they've implicitly agreed with the OP.

 

[Sera_EX]

Don’t count me in that, I don’t care if it’s **** or not. If nothing is shown it shouldn’t be an issue, if it ultimately is, get rid of all eroge that haven’t been rereleased in a non-h version.

 

[DaReaperMan]

... You said you don't care about moral discussions but used an argument entirely based on morality where you call something "fetishistic" as a detriment in the same sentence?

Do I need to quote Ant's point to you? That is where I'm getting fetisistic.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I would also much prefer if this verse is deleted. For one thing, I have been told that the game largely concerns extreme sexual content, including rape perpetrated against and by a 14 year old, mixed with various strange fetisches, such as a "reverse mermaid" (a woman whose upper body is a fish, but the lower looks human), if I do not misremember, which breaks our rules; and for the second, it gives our wiki a considerably worse reputation to keep it.

The 14 year old thing was a falsehood, but holy hell does the main character look that young if not younger. So @Matthew_Schroeder here you go.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

There isn't a double standard. The intent and severity are obviously relative. You comparing something like Monster Girl Quest, which again, I cannot state enough, is advertised as a game in which you are purposefully and repeatedly raped, sometimes to death, often with the attacks of enemies in these combat encounters emulating this, all for the pleasure of the player, is different than something like Berserk, which uses rape as a traumatic and horrific plot device. Sex alone does not pornography make.

I am not comparing it to Berserk! I am comparing it to Hybrid x Hearts, to Testament of Sister New Devil, to Valkyrie Drive, to Mato Seihei no Slave, to Isekai Meikyuu de Slave Harem, to Ishuzoku Reviewers, to Seikon no Qwaser, all of which have similarly fetishistic and sometimes sexually explicit plot points and elements and none of which are considered **** either here on the wiki (Where several of these have profiles) or anywhere else on the internet.

Hell, Hybrid x Heart is literally a series about girls fighting aliens with mech-suits powered by ******* where the main character literally has Sex Manipulation abilities, and it has actual incest and inbreeding in the novels. But its not considered pornography nor sold as it even though the novels have explicitly described sex in detail and illustrations. It even got an anime adaptation.

I'm sure some people hearing all that will go "This is disgusting its **** it shouldn't be included!" but it's objectively not **** under any of the parameters being used to argue MQG is (Classification in wikis, reliable websites, advertising). So what makes one more pornographic than the other?

I'm very dismissive of your points given they've failed to account for mine many times by now and have taken to being passive-aggressive rather than productive. I don't give a shit if a verse has a sex scene. I give a shit when a verse is about being raped for the pleasure of the player. There is an obvious distinction there.

There are non-pornographic verses with rape scenes which are intended to be satisfying. Again it just leads to a discussion of personal morals.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

"I am not comparing it to Berserk! I am comparing it to Hybrid x Hearts, to Testament of Sister New Devil, to Valkyrie Drive, to Mato Seihei no Slave, to Isekai Meikyuu de Slave Harem, to Ishuzoku Reviewers, to Seikon no Qwaser, all of which have similarly fetishistic and sometimes sexually explicit plot points and elements and none of which are considered **** either here on the wiki (Where several of these have profiles) or anywhere else on the internet.

Hell, Hybrid x Heart is literally a series about girls fighting aliens with mech-suits powered by ******* where the main character literally has Sex Manipulation abilities, and it has actual incest and inbreeding in the novels. But its not considered pornography nor sold as it even though the novels have explicitly described sex in detail and illustrations. It even got an anime adaptation.

I'm sure some people hearing all that will go "This is disgusting its **** it shouldn't be included!" but it's objectively not **** under any of the parameters being used to argue MQG is (Classification in wikis, reliable websites, advertising). So what makes one more pornographic than the other?"

"It's not a whataboutism, its a far comparison that serves to illustrate my point. Argument by analogy is one of the simplest to make and understand."

Hm. I'm not going to continue, per AKM's wishes which are, in my opinion, valid enough, given we've been going in circles for quite some time. But still dude.