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Deku vs Genos

Kachon123 said:
Not at all.
Click to expand...
Genos barely has an AP advantage, his ranged attacks don’t do nearly enough damage, and he’s up against someone that could withstand comparable blows for over ten of minutes straight in a far weaker key.

Genos’ only win condition here is literally beating Deku through fighting skill up close. Which requires him to be moving and have free control of his body.

If Genos has lower LS he will absolutely lose if he gets grabbed. And this fight is going to go on for a very long time, so there are many many opportunities for him to be grabbed.

So why does he not need LS to win in your perspective
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
Genos barely has an AP advantage
Click to expand...
Make a CRT you can't use this as an argument and it will be ignored if you keep using it. This is getting ridiculous.
Kingofwolves999 said:
his ranged attacks don’t do nearly enough damage
Click to expand...
Heat isn't all his blasts have. They also have 10.05 kt AP. It's doing more damage to Deku that his attacks would do to Genos.
Kingofwolves999 said:
and he’s up against someone that could withstand comparable blows for over ten of minutes straight in a far weaker key.
Click to expand...
Deku is up against someone who could stand against Garou for an extended period of time. Genos is much more skilled and experienced than Deku.
Kingofwolves999 said:
If Genos has lower LS he will absolutely lose if he gets grabbed.
Click to expand...
That's not true. Genos can still blow up his surroundings which would do a lot of damage to Izuku, but absolutely none to himself.
 
Kachon123 said:
Make a CRT you can't use this as an argument and it will be ignored if you keep using it. This is getting ridiculous.

Heat isn't all his blasts have. They also have 10.05 kt AP. It's doing more damage to Deku that his attacks would do to Genos.

Deku is up against someone who could stand against Garou for an extended period of time. Genos is much more skilled and experienced than Deku.

That's not true. Genos can still blow up his surroundings which would do a lot of damage to Izuku, but absolutely none to himself.
Click to expand...
Buddy even by your own “generous” estimate of “less than 1.7x” Genos is not that much stronger than him, chill it out.

Everything else I already knew and aren’t relevant to the main point that if Genos gets grabbed he loses, destroying his surroundings is pointless if Deku flies up and ragdolls him while his hands are bound behind his back by 20 Blackwhip strands.

But go off king
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
Buddy even by your own “generous” estimate of “less than 1.7x” Genos is not that much stronger than him, chill it out.
Click to expand...
You're acting as if it's doing no damage when that's not true. The truth is that there is a gap, and the gap is big enough for Genos to do considerable damage to Deku.
Kingofwolves999 said:
Everything else I already knew and aren’t relevant to the main point that if Genos gets grabbed he loses, destroying his surroundings is pointless if Deku flies up and ragdolls him while his hands are bound behind his back by 20 Blackwhip strands.
Click to expand...
Speed is equalized. Is there proof that Deku can move >500 meters while thinking he can capitalize on having Genos trapped?
Kingofwolves999 said:
But go off king
Click to expand...
🍆
 
Kachon123 said:
You're acting as if it's doing no damage when that's not true. The truth is that there is a gap, and the gap is big enough for Genos to do considerable damage to Deku.

Speed is equalized. Is there proof that Deku can move >500 meters while thinking he can capitalize on having Genos trapped?

🍆
Click to expand...
Barely a gap, even 2x wouldn’t be heavy damage for someone as invested in stamina as Deku. “Considerable damage” is meaningless if he just ignores the damage dealt and has suffered through worse. You’re acting like he’s getting his bones broken in one shot or something, you know, things that ACTUALLY hurt him, not someone slightly stronger punching him.

Fa Jin speed amp + Blackwhip Slingshot
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
Barely a gap, even 2x wouldn’t be heavy damage for someone as invested in stamina as Deku. “Considerable damage” is meaningless if he just ignores the damage dealt and has suffered through worse. You’re acting like he’s getting his bones broken in one shot or something, you know, things that ACTUALLY hurt him, not someone slightly stronger punching him.
Click to expand...
The wank is insane lmao. Not changing the 9-2 disparity in votes.
 
Kachon123 said:
The wank is insane lmao. Not changing the 9-2 disparity in votes.
Click to expand...
And I don’t want to. Your downplay of Deku’s stamina is obscene, and clearly not changing. The fact you resorted to claiming I’m wanking is hilarious when I’m just stating what’s on Deku’s profile and applying it, as I have for the 30+ matches he’s been in.

I don’t care if he wins or not but blatant disrespect is far too fun to pass up dismantling.

Also, nice rebuttal to Fa Jin + Blackwhip being enough for Deku to Ragdoll.
 
Kachon123 said:
You literally claimed

that if Genos isn't doing this level of damage, he can't hurt him ☠️ If that's not wank then idk what is.
Click to expand...
Ah, you’re just not understanding, it’s even worse.

“Hurt” as in tax his stamina, limit his movements, draw him close to unconsciousness, knock him out, weaken him, HURT him.

Genos can hit him and damage him but it will not hurt him. Nothing Genos has is even remotely close to the level of pain he is used to taking. He can eat punches from Genos all day because that’s how high his pain tolerance and stamina are, or did you miss the Supernatural Willpower on his profile.

Deku is used to fighting people that break his bones in one shot, tear his tendons apart with his own reflected attacks, pierce through him with lasers, crush him, stab him and force him to use 100% which sets off explosions inside of his limbs, and even through all of THAT, he can fight and keep moving at peak efficiency if not even better.

So no. Genos cannot hurt Deku in any way that matters in a short amount of time. He can damage him, but he is not even scratching the surface of his stamina with such a small AP difference of “less than 1.7x.”

But please, continue to say I’m wanking, I’m getting a good laugh out of this entire conversation
 
Then keep laughing once this thread is closed. Clearly the arguments you and others have made were not deemed enough to grant Deku the win. If you're not here to debate then just don't type at all.
 
Oh I will because this thread and the result of it is just going to wind up deleted along with darn near every Deku match by the end of the current arc anyway. I am commenting simply because inaccurate statements were being made. Nothing further than that. This match and basically every MHA match with a somewhat popular character are practically meaningless.

But let’s stop derailing. Grace reached, will be done soon, and we can all move on to the next one.
 
Can Izuku restrain Genos even with the LS advantage? Since Genos is stronger and has heat attacks he fires from his palm, can't he destroy Blackwhip? Izuku can't stop his palms from firing, and he can do this AOE attack. Blackwhip doesn't really have any durability feats.

I hesitate to say Genos is a better fighter, since his own feats from this key aren't all that impressive. Off screen experience he might have doesn't really mean anything.

Genos hasn't really done anything Izuku can't deal with. In terms of fighting I mean. Izuku is incredibly smart and has experience with predicting the movements of things/people that are faster than him. And his Iron Soles allow his kicks to give a double impact as well. Which help with Genos' AP/Dura advantage.

Also Izuku has the Mid-Gauntlets as well, which are basically 7-A+ shields on his arm and legs. They reinforce his whole body somehow, but it's never explained by how much. Izuku can also use Fa Jin + Blackwhip to blitz people equal to him, and was able to break the arm of someone who is equal to him.

Genos advantage here is his big AOE attacks, and AP advantage. But Fa Jin handles the AP advantage. AOE attacks become weaker further away from the source. Genos' big blast while flashy, if Izuku is even 1 meter away the energy that hits him will be far less. His beams would be more dangerous, since they're condensed power.

Izuku's range at 20% is in hundreds of meters, 30% would have an unknown amount higher range than that. So Genos doesn't have a massive range advantage either.

Also how does Genos have better maneuverability? Genos Beginning of Series key covers a small part of Genos. Chapter 5 to Chapter 6. Next time we see him he has his High 7-C upgrades. So whatever Genos does there doesn't really affect his previous key. Not including his mentality or fighting skills, since that wouldn't change until more time passes.

But his movement isn't really all that great. I don't see any limited flight, information analysis, or even enhanced senses either. Maybe him confirming no living things were within 500 meters could be enhanced senses. But I'm not all that sold. Him having those things later shouldn't apply to a previous version of himself.

I feel like there is a lot of issues with Genos' profile for his first key.
 
TheRustyOne said:
Can Izuku restrain Genos even with the LS advantage? Since Genos is stronger and has heat attacks he fires from his palm, can't he destroy Blackwhip? Izuku can't stop his palms from firing, and he can do this AOE attack. Blackwhip doesn't really have any durability feats.

I hesitate to say Genos is a better fighter, since his own feats from this key aren't all that impressive. Off screen experience he might have doesn't really mean anything.

Genos hasn't really done anything Izuku can't deal with. In terms of fighting I mean. Izuku is incredibly smart and has experience with predicting the movements of things/people that are faster than him. And his Iron Soles allow his kicks to give a double impact as well. Which help with Genos' AP/Dura advantage.

Also Izuku has the Mid-Gauntlets as well, which are basically 7-A+ shields on his arm and legs. They reinforce his whole body somehow, but it's never explained by how much. Izuku can also use Fa Jin + Blackwhip to blitz people equal to him, and was able to break the arm of someone who is equal to him.

Genos advantage here is his big AOE attacks, and AP advantage. But Fa Jin handles the AP advantage. AOE attacks become weaker further away from the source. Genos' big blast while flashy, if Izuku is even 1 meter away the energy that hits him will be far less. His beams would be more dangerous, since they're condensed power.

Izuku's range at 20% is in hundreds of meters, 30% would have an unknown amount higher range than that. So Genos doesn't have a massive range advantage either.

Also how does Genos have better maneuverability? Genos Beginning of Series key covers a small part of Genos. Chapter 5 to Chapter 6. Next time we see him he has his High 7-C upgrades. So whatever Genos does there doesn't really affect his previous key. Not including his mentality or fighting skills, since that wouldn't change until more time passes.

But his movement isn't really all that great. I don't see any limited flight, information analysis, or even enhanced senses either. Maybe him confirming no living things were within 500 meters could be enhanced senses. But I'm not all that sold. Him having those things later shouldn't apply to a previous version of himself.

I feel like there is a lot of issues with Genos' profile for his first key.
Click to expand...
Oh look, the knight in shining armor, the person that actually cares and knows what’s going on
 
I'm going to vote for Izuku here.

Genos' AP advantage is not massive and can be caught up with Iron Soles producing a double impact and Fa Jin + Blackwhip combo giving him a even higher boost. Also he can use Fa Jin for a quick speed boost at any point, and Genos can't really do anything if Izuku starts flying.

He can fire his cannons, but they move in a straight line and are easily avoided. Though up close I'm certain Izuku would have the advantage. As Genos' skills at this point aren't the most impressive, and isn't anything Izuku himself hasn't dealt with before.

His big AOE attacks while up close are dangerous, but Izuku has a high tolerance for pain and the AP advantage wouldn't leave fatal damage instantly. Izuku can also use Fa Jin for a quick escape if he needs to, since he'll move away faster than the blast with his speed boost.

A big advantage here is Izuku's Mid-Gauntlets, which are basically 7-A+ shields on his arms and legs. He can easily catch/block any of Genos' strikes or even beam attacks without any danger to himself. As long as he blocks with his arm or legs. So Genos can't beat Izuku unless he gets close.

But up close Izuku is use to dealing with people far more maneuverable than Genos, such as Bakugo and Gentle. Who have far more confusing movement than Genos, and he is still able to figure out how to land hits on them. Quick decision making skills as well, being able to adjust his plan against Gentle while in mid fall.

Genos only real advantage is his AOE attacks in all honestly, but Izuku has ways of either avoiding it and defending against it. The first AOE blast wouldn't take Izuku out or anything, and he'll be ready to deal with it if Genos tries again. And his Mid-Gauntlet would protect his limbs from any of the damage. And he can guard with them.

Blackwhip can also be a annoying up close. Such as tripping Genos up, or letting Izuku slingshot himself. If Izuku does have the higher lifting strength by the end of this. He can also just move Genos' arm cannons away from him, and ragdoll him. Genos might be able to break free with his AOE, but Izuku can just use Blackwhip again. He'll be getting some good hits in.

And if Izuku felt like he had no choice. He could just charge up his Fa Jin and combined with Blackwhip for his blitzing attack. Which is strong enough to break the bones of people who are comparable to himself. So they should leave good mark on Genos. He can do this multiple times if need be.
 
Also, Genos Class M rating is getting removed so Genos won't be able to grapple/get out of grapples or psychically clash
 
Oh if it class M is getting removed the. Change my vote back to deku
also we should get started on that crt shouldn’t we
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
Simply vote then

Friend I’m tired of Deku matches, they’re spammed hard as **** and are all going to get dynamically changed since they’re not even taking the 2nd’s quirk into account anyway. Like 80% of the matches on his profile don’t even matter, it’s pointless.

Now, COULD I argue against every single point brought up for Genos? Yes, the oppositions arguments aren’t infallible. Do I WANT to? No, cause idc enough about this match to start typing paragraphs back and forth against Genos of all people.

I vote Genos not cause I think he wins but cause I don’t care enough to argue for Deku
Click to expand...
sorry I made you annoyed
wasn't my intention
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
One thing I will say is that Deku is not 5.8 kT and I’m getting tired of saying it.

His 10% is 4.22kT, and he gets stronger up to his 15% to the point he can push back Flect Turn who was unmoved by his 10%.

Finger Flicks from his 20% can blast his 10% away when Flect Turn reflects them, and with 20% he actually breaks through Flect Turn and hurts him consistently. That is where baseline 7-C comes from, and that’s just cause there’s no number to put down how much stronger he is than 4.22.

And then 30% is even stronger than 20% on top of him training for months such that his body is adapted to using 45% when it could just manage 20% earlier.

The AP disadvantage does not exist if not sways in Deku’s favor, and definitely is in his favor when he uses Fa Jin. Genos punches will be doing as much to Deku as Deku’s own punches would
Click to expand...
I made all of my arguments under the impression that their APs were equal, to be fair

Also, doesn't Fa Jin make him 7A
his speed with Fa Jin made him comparable to All Might while only using 45%. That kind of multiplier should still be proportional in his 30%, which would make him easily 1 shot Genos, which isn't fair since it would make Deku skip tiers.

If Fa Jin isn't restricted then I'm changing my vote to Deku since he would just 1 shot. Ther';s really nothing Genos can do against that
 
Last edited:
Kingofwolves999 said:
So Genos isn’t “beating Deku down” as easily as people are saying, it would take many minutes of consecutive blows with Deku doing nothing but standing still before Genos actually knocks him unconscious and that’s just WHM Deku, Final Act Deku has pain tolerance beyond his previous limits on top of better stamina feats and way higher defensive abilities in precog and analytical prediction.

Idk where this argument that Genos just runs up to him and punches him a couple times and he loses comes from
Click to expand...
1. Never said he would. I said Genos would outskill and overall deal more significant damage over time

2. Considering their nigh equal stats, the reverse is also true. Deku needs a lot to bring Genos down. Except since Genos just flat out doesn't feel pain while Deku does, and Genos is entirely unaffected from serious injuries like broken bones and losing limbs while Deku is. Sure, his pain tolerance is ridiculous, but you can't outlast someone who literally feels no pain just with high pain tolerance.

3. Genos's sensors can tell him the status of the entire battlefield at all times so long as he isn't blitzed. Deku can't blitz him here. Sure, he doesn't have precog, but his sensors are still extremely OP. They counter smokescreen as well.

4. The argument is that Genos outskills in terms of close quarters, and both of them are pretty much equal in terms of long-range combat and mobility. The battle wouldn't end anytime soon due to both of their insane stamina levels, but Genos should win due to the aforementioned skill and pain tolerance advantages.
 
Mickey1940 said:
sorry I made you annoyed
wasn't my intention
Click to expand...
Mickey1940 said:
I made all of my arguments under the impression that their APs were equal, to be fair

Also, doesn't Fa Jin make him 7A
his speed with Fa Jin made him comparable to All Might while only using 45%. That kind of multiplier should still be proportional in his 30%, which would make him easily 1 shot Genos, which isn't fair since it would make Deku skip tiers.

If Fa Jin isn't restricted then I'm changing my vote to Deku since he would just 1 shot. Ther';s really nothing Genos can do against that
Click to expand...
Mickey1940 said:
1. Never said he would. I said Genos would outskill and overall deal more significant damage over time

2. Considering their nigh equal stats, the reverse is also true. Deku needs a lot to bring Genos down. Except since Genos just flat out doesn't feel pain while Deku does, and Genos is entirely unaffected from serious injuries like broken bones and losing limbs while Deku is. Sure, his pain tolerance is ridiculous, but you can't outlast someone who literally feels no pain just with high pain tolerance.

3. Genos's sensors can tell him the status of the entire battlefield at all times so long as he isn't blitzed. Deku can't blitz him here. Sure, he doesn't have precog, but his sensors are still extremely OP. They counter smokescreen as well.

4. The argument is that Genos outskills in terms of close quarters, and both of them are pretty much equal in terms of long-range combat and mobility. The battle wouldn't end anytime soon due to both of their insane stamina levels, but Genos should win due to the aforementioned skill and pain tolerance advantages.
Click to expand...
My brother in Christ why are you replying to me and not Rusty who just debunked Genos’ entire profile
 
M_Animefan said:
dude you need to chill. no need to be rude,
Click to expand...
Out of everything I’ve said in this entire thread, THAT is the one you want to tell me to chill on? It’s true, my arguments are irrelevant, Rusty just debunked most of Genos’ abilities and his lifting strength on top of giving far more reasons Deku just flat out wins.

I really don’t understand what you mean by I need to chill.
 
TheRustyOne said:
Can Izuku restrain Genos even with the LS advantage? Since Genos is stronger and has heat attacks he fires from his palm, can't he destroy Blackwhip? Izuku can't stop his palms from firing, and he can do this AOE attack. Blackwhip doesn't really have any durability feats.

I hesitate to say Genos is a better fighter, since his own feats from this key aren't all that impressive. Off screen experience he might have doesn't really mean anything.

Genos hasn't really done anything Izuku can't deal with. In terms of fighting I mean. Izuku is incredibly smart and has experience with predicting the movements of things/people that are faster than him. And his Iron Soles allow his kicks to give a double impact as well. Which help with Genos' AP/Dura advantage.

Also Izuku has the Mid-Gauntlets as well, which are basically 7-A+ shields on his arm and legs. They reinforce his whole body somehow, but it's never explained by how much. Izuku can also use Fa Jin + Blackwhip to blitz people equal to him, and was able to break the arm of someone who is equal to him.

Genos advantage here is his big AOE attacks, and AP advantage. But Fa Jin handles the AP advantage. AOE attacks become weaker further away from the source. Genos' big blast while flashy, if Izuku is even 1 meter away the energy that hits him will be far less. His beams would be more dangerous, since they're condensed power.

Izuku's range at 20% is in hundreds of meters, 30% would have an unknown amount higher range than that. So Genos doesn't have a massive range advantage either.

Also how does Genos have better maneuverability? Genos Beginning of Series key covers a small part of Genos. Chapter 5 to Chapter 6. Next time we see him he has his High 7-C upgrades. So whatever Genos does there doesn't really affect his previous key. Not including his mentality or fighting skills, since that wouldn't change until more time passes.

But his movement isn't really all that great. I don't see any limited flight, information analysis, or even enhanced senses either. Maybe him confirming no living things were within 500 meters could be enhanced senses. But I'm not all that sold. Him having those things later shouldn't apply to a previous version of himself.

I feel like there is a lot of issues with Genos' profile for his first key.
Click to expand...
1. No idea. I have no idea what Blackwhip's made of. Also, in terms of lifting strength, I'm only going off of Genos's profile. I have no idea why he has Class M
However, I find it highly unlikely that Deku would just tie him up and infinite camp him since he's literally never done that. The only thing he's ever done that's similar was paddleball Shiggy towards himself over and over for big nerd boi punches. I donn't think he's ever used it to actually restrain someone mid battle unless I'm an idiot who missed something.

2. I've been arguing about just general combat proficiency and martial prowess this entire time.
Experience wise, Deku's definitely a lot more clever than the average student, but he hasn't exactly fought anyone at the pinnacle of fighting prowess like Garou. Genos, while he hasn't fought Garou yet at this point, hasn't fought anyone noteworthy or even trained before his fight with Garou, therefore it's reasonable to say that his fighting style remains the same, minus the extra weapons and upgrades he has.
Not to mention, he's older and has had more time using his powers up until this point than Deku has, basically soloing multiple organizations. That's a pretty good testament to his skill

3. Deku's been hurt by far weaker beings despite having the Mid Gauntlets. It wouldn't make sense for Deku to be so drastically injured from fighting fodder 8C enemies otherwise. You could argue that that's just natural wear and tear from using them constantly, but if they're truly as durable as you describe, the gauntlets would be fine since none of the villains he fought would warrant the necessary OFA level to break the gauntlets down.

4. Like I said before, I think Fa Jin needs to be restricted due to making him freaking 7A and/or a blitz. That's kinda unfair for Genos

5. I never said Genos had a range advantage. I explicitly stated that their range options were nearly identical and were comparable to each other

6. Apparently the dude has Bakugo level maneuverability from his profile.
Plus according to this, he can easily change direction in midair, run up walls and ricochet off them. He was able to keep up with Mosquito Girl, who has objectively better flight and maneuverability than Deku does.

7. Genos's BoS key literally has both limited flight and info analysis in the first 2 lines. It apparently works as heat seekers and gives Genos a complete 360% awareness of his surroundings, making it impossible for him to be caught off guard without any tricks. He's only been caught off guard from being outsped/blitzed, or believing the fight is already over. If he's constantly using his sensors during the entire fight. I find it unlikely that Deku will ever actually get the jump on him since he'll know exactly where he is. It's more of an argument of "one guy who knows exactly where you are at all times" (Genos) vs "one guy who is warned of everything you do at all times" (Deku)

If the CRT for Genos's lifting strength gets approved, and Fa Jin isn't restricted, then Deku wins from just being more jacked and 1 shotting Genos while GEnos can't do anything about it. But then it'll be a ridiculous mismatch. Without higher lifting strength or Fa Jin, Genos wins via just basically outlasting Deku. Deku can't rip his limbs off as easily as most other characters in OPM due to the equal AP, and every since one of Genos's attacks will leave a mark, unlike Deku's on Genos.
 
Mickey1940 said:
3. Deku's been hurt by far weaker beings despite having the Mid Gauntlets. It wouldn't make sense for Deku to be so drastically injured from fighting fodder 8C enemies otherwise. You could argue that that's just natural wear and tear from using them constantly, but if they're truly as durable as you describe, the gauntlets would be fine since none of the villains he fought would warrant the necessary OFA level to break the gauntlets down.
Click to expand...
Mid gauntlets arent meant to tale his 100%, they also got shot by nagant, and he's putting the stress of 45% of them. it is natural wear and tear
Mickey1940 said:
4. Like I said before, I think Fa Jin needs to be restricted due to making him freaking 7A and/or a blitz. That's kinda unfair for Genos
Click to expand...
Fa-jin doesnt make him 7-A, it stores energy from previous repeated actions, so it can be released later. if he stores enough KILOTONS to make 100 MEGATONS, i say he deserves to fire it
 
you know what

I'm changing my vote to Deku due to Fa Jin 1 shot or blitz

I still don't think the mid gauntlets give him 7A durability since they were worn down by repeated villain attacks despite the fact that every single villain was 8C and shouldn't have warrant4ed 45% at all times. But that doesn't really matter if Fa Jin can just make Deku skip tiers that easily
 
Magmag said:
Fa Jin one shot or blitz(Idek where this idea comes from) is wild, voting Genos.
Click to expand...
it doesnt let him one shot, it's stored energy, so if he stored the energy from one 30% attack, a 30%+Fa-Jin would be 11.6 KT because it has the energy of two 30% attacks.
speed though yeah, he can amp himself to ridiculous degrees
 
Acer__ said:
it doesnt let him one shot, it's stored energy, so if he stored the energy from one 30% attack, a 30%+Fa-Jin would be 11.6 KT because it has the energy of two 30% attacks.
speed though yeah, he can amp himself to ridiculous degrees
Click to expand...
What’s his speed amp looking like, can u put a number on it?
 
Magmag said:
What’s his speed amp looking like, can u put a number on it?
Click to expand...
uuuuuh, not really?
because Fa-Jin isnt set it's stored amounts, so I like to think of it as
"if he stores an attack at his current percentage and uses it for speed, he would be moving at 2x speed."
and he can store multiple
 
Acer__ said:
uuuuuh, not really?
because Fa-Jin isnt set it's stored amounts, so I like to think of it as
"if he stores an attack at his current percentage and uses it for speed, he would be moving at 2x speed."
and he can store multiple
Click to expand...
Eh I mean it’s not that insane.
 
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