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Hi there!
So, I saw the downgrade you made for the whole Vocaloid Universe, and as much as I liked Immortal Star-Level Miku, the arguments presented did make sense.
Sadly, though, now the VOCALOIDs are left without actual feats, positioned in a generic 10-B/Unknown Tier. So, I wanted to see if there is a way to actually understand the strenght of these virtual pop stars, and give them proper tiering.
The first issue: The songs' text cannot be usen as reference for providing FEATs!
First off, has anyone played Hatsune Miku Project Diva X?
That game is probably one of the strangest in the entire series, due to the fact that, opposed to other titles, THERE IS a plot. You know, with Miku talking, having her own personality (sort of) telling what you do, interacting with other VOCALOIDs and stuff.
The plot of the game is the following: Miku and the other live in a sort-of virtual reality, where the power of crystals has faded away. VOCALOIDs' singing abilities depends on these crystals.
You, the player (4th Wall Breaking), interact with Miku and "help her singing the songs" in order to collect "Voltage" and filling the "Crystals" once more so that her world can shine again, and they can all return to do what they like: Singing the songs.
And that's the issue here: SONGS. That's how she calls them. All the stuff Miku sings is nothing more than just fiction (even for her). If we take it by Project Diva X point of view, this isn't stuff that Miku "does", it's just stuff that Miku "sings", she is not actually doing what she claims during the song.
You can tell that by Kagamine Len's song "Holy Lance Explosion Boy". In this song, Len is essentialy a manwhore, who keeps changing IDs and impregnating womens, but the guy is just 14!
Same thing in Brain Revolution Girl, this time with Miku instead, where she is essentialy a prostitute. None of these attitudes are never referenced again, and don't actually fit with how the characters act outside of the songs.
What i'm trying to say here is:
Miku is a fictional idol that likes to sing songs, and the songs themselves... are just songs. These do not rapresent what Miku did in her life or what she can do. Thus, the LYRICS of said tracks cannot be taken literaly for providing FEATs.
Abilities shown in PVs
PVs are, let's say, the Videos for the songs.
We established that the songs' lyrics should be not taken into relevance, but what about we actually see on-screen?
In the PVs, we do see Miku herself and the others doing stuff that can be taken as feats. I mean, it IS Miku doing this stuff, isn't it? The song may be fictional, but if Miku jumps 10 meters high in the air during the Video, then she DOES have some powerful leg strenght, isn't it?
You see, the problem is - these could be all fake. Just as much as the songs.
To understand what I'm saying, take into real world perspective. Michael Jackson sung "Thriller" and even made a video for it. That doesn't mean that Michael was an undead popstar and certainly he didn't have the power to resurrect the deads.
Considering that Miku is pretty much in the same situation, with her singing fictional songs, what does make us sure that what we actually see on-screen isn't just a product of certain Visual Special Effects? I mean, she IS a Vocalid, she IS a pop-star. The chance of all of it being fake are the same if not greater than all of it being real. Miku jumped 10 meters high. Maybe she was pulled by some string of some sorts, or maybe it was done in CG!
The main problem here is that Project Diva X neither any of all of the other Project Diva games addresses the PV's "nature", we do not know what's their origin and how exactly are made. Are these meant to be taken as real-world music videos? So there are, like, people and music companies that make this stuff for her? This doesn't make sense!
I needed a REFERENCE, and I needed it in order to make some conclusions out of this mess. So, I returned to Diva X and took another look at the opening
Project Diva X Opening
In the other thread it has been said that Videogame openings were not taken into consideration, but in THIS case, the opening is "canon" (canon to the plot of the game, at least)
Remember what I said about the VOCALOIDs' singing abilities being tied to the power of the crystals? This OP shows exactly that. The power of Crystals is fading. The whole stage goes dark, Miku and the others' are literally unable to sing. Ultimate Miku arrives, helps her counterpart and gives her the crystal, and that's when the game begins, with Miku's and the Players' quest to re-fill with Voltage those things, and slowly but surely helping the other VOCALOIDs to regain their singing voices.
So, how does it relate to PVs being real or not? It's simple. The stage where Miku is singing goes off in the very moment the power of the Crystals fades away. When this happens, Miku is literally powerless and needs to be helped by her "other self" (whoever she is).
What I think is: What does happen in PVs IS real, but not as something done by Miku herself, but most likely as a fabrication / spectacularization made by the Crystals' power.
Conclusion:
VOCALOIDS' power is heavely tied to Crystals. When the power of Crystals fades away, they are literally powerless, they can't even sing. If they somehow manage to sing, however, they can cumulate VOLTAGE and increase the Crystal's Power. The Crystal's Power is used as a fuel to make the songs themselves more enjoyable, and can grant the users with some abilities (I.E. Flying).
Also, the Crystals are shared between VOCALOIDs, so it's not like they have different powers or something.
Flying Abilities
1:30
Teleportation (She does that in Concert Mode as well when switching between songs)
1:33
Duplication (Two Mikus)
Pretty much the whole video
Reality Warped an entire planet into becoming full of life and grew much bigger than said planet.
This has been discussed in the other thread, but I think this has to be counted as a feat.
As I've been saying, the abilities shown in PVs are fruit of the Crystal's Power - I HIGHLY doubt that such a goddess does indeed exist in Miku's word as a separate character (she would be, like, totally out of place in a music-centered virtual world like the one from Diva X) so I think this goddess was just made by Miku's / Crystal's power for the sake of the song.
All the other stuff that has already been written in the current Miku's page
Multiple Personalities Disorder
Oh, and by the way, since we're talking about Project Diva X here.
Multiple Personalities
In Project Diva X, VOCALOIDs change their attitute dramatically depending on what they're wearing - And they do this even OUTSIDE of the songs and when they talk to you.
Essentially, there are 5 types of modules (dresses) in the game (Classic, Cool, Cute, Elegant, Eccentric). The characters act very differently and change their personality depending on what they're wearing.
Project Diva X Vocaloid personalities distinct yet malleable
This is based solely on Project Diva X. VOCALOIDs are not only that.
I get it, but, seriously, do you have any better ideas?
Project Diva X, as far as I know, it's the only game that gives a minimum depth and explaination on how this Universe works. And it certainly fits with the theme of our favourite girl, since it's music centered and everything.
Also looking how Miku works IRL, it also fits. She is a Yamaha voice synthtetizing program, so it makes sense that her own power is based entirely on songs and popularity (VOLTAGE and Crystals are literally a rappresentation of that).
The more she sings, the more she gets popoular. The more she gets popoular, the more stuff she does. It's a circle.
The characters that wee see in Videogames and Videos are literally a rappresentation of that!
How far can the power of Crystals can go? Reality Manipulation?
That's a very... very good question. Determining the extent of the power of Crystals is not easy, given that PVs are probably their fabrication.
I mean, we have virtual realities, people that come back from the dead, people that go into space, people that grows gigantic, people that randomly transform into Chibis.
I think that the Crystal MAY have the power to literally bend the reality Miku is in, but at the same time, I'm sure that it cannot be usen in a random stance like, a fight against someone.
Crystals needs to be filled with VOLTAGE, and VOLTAGE is obtained by Miku singing. So, like, what is she supposed to do? Singing against the enemy she's facing or something? Can she even do that? Would that count as a proper song?
I wouldn't count that. In Project Diva X, each Crystal has shown to have 5 songs each with a definied theme (Classic, Elegant, Cute, Cool, Eccentric). You can't fill a Elegant Crystal by singing a Cool song for example. So, I think that Miku has to sing what the "Crystal" wants, not what "she" needs.
Finally definiying what Miku can do
So, that's what I think how the character should be definied.
While the power of Crystals is potentially enormous (and can probably bend reality), VOCALOIDs are limited by the fact that they have to sing the songs that the Crystal itself requires (the various songs from the Project Diva games). So using this ability properly in a battle would be very unlikely. (I don't know, maybe they can launch someone into space by singing Hello Planet or something similar, and kill the enemy by asphyxiation?)
VOCALOIDs powers are tied to Crystals. The "powers" they receive go from the simple singing to all the miscellanous abilities we see in PV.
Crystals power is running thanks to VOLTAGE. VOLTAGE is obtained thanks to the songs that Miku & Friends sings.
So, I saw the downgrade you made for the whole Vocaloid Universe, and as much as I liked Immortal Star-Level Miku, the arguments presented did make sense.
Sadly, though, now the VOCALOIDs are left without actual feats, positioned in a generic 10-B/Unknown Tier. So, I wanted to see if there is a way to actually understand the strenght of these virtual pop stars, and give them proper tiering.
The first issue: The songs' text cannot be usen as reference for providing FEATs!
First off, has anyone played Hatsune Miku Project Diva X?
That game is probably one of the strangest in the entire series, due to the fact that, opposed to other titles, THERE IS a plot. You know, with Miku talking, having her own personality (sort of) telling what you do, interacting with other VOCALOIDs and stuff.
The plot of the game is the following: Miku and the other live in a sort-of virtual reality, where the power of crystals has faded away. VOCALOIDs' singing abilities depends on these crystals.
You, the player (4th Wall Breaking), interact with Miku and "help her singing the songs" in order to collect "Voltage" and filling the "Crystals" once more so that her world can shine again, and they can all return to do what they like: Singing the songs.
And that's the issue here: SONGS. That's how she calls them. All the stuff Miku sings is nothing more than just fiction (even for her). If we take it by Project Diva X point of view, this isn't stuff that Miku "does", it's just stuff that Miku "sings", she is not actually doing what she claims during the song.
You can tell that by Kagamine Len's song "Holy Lance Explosion Boy". In this song, Len is essentialy a manwhore, who keeps changing IDs and impregnating womens, but the guy is just 14!
Same thing in Brain Revolution Girl, this time with Miku instead, where she is essentialy a prostitute. None of these attitudes are never referenced again, and don't actually fit with how the characters act outside of the songs.
What i'm trying to say here is:
Miku is a fictional idol that likes to sing songs, and the songs themselves... are just songs. These do not rapresent what Miku did in her life or what she can do. Thus, the LYRICS of said tracks cannot be taken literaly for providing FEATs.
Abilities shown in PVs
PVs are, let's say, the Videos for the songs.
We established that the songs' lyrics should be not taken into relevance, but what about we actually see on-screen?
In the PVs, we do see Miku herself and the others doing stuff that can be taken as feats. I mean, it IS Miku doing this stuff, isn't it? The song may be fictional, but if Miku jumps 10 meters high in the air during the Video, then she DOES have some powerful leg strenght, isn't it?
You see, the problem is - these could be all fake. Just as much as the songs.
To understand what I'm saying, take into real world perspective. Michael Jackson sung "Thriller" and even made a video for it. That doesn't mean that Michael was an undead popstar and certainly he didn't have the power to resurrect the deads.
Considering that Miku is pretty much in the same situation, with her singing fictional songs, what does make us sure that what we actually see on-screen isn't just a product of certain Visual Special Effects? I mean, she IS a Vocalid, she IS a pop-star. The chance of all of it being fake are the same if not greater than all of it being real. Miku jumped 10 meters high. Maybe she was pulled by some string of some sorts, or maybe it was done in CG!
The main problem here is that Project Diva X neither any of all of the other Project Diva games addresses the PV's "nature", we do not know what's their origin and how exactly are made. Are these meant to be taken as real-world music videos? So there are, like, people and music companies that make this stuff for her? This doesn't make sense!
I needed a REFERENCE, and I needed it in order to make some conclusions out of this mess. So, I returned to Diva X and took another look at the opening
Project Diva X Opening
In the other thread it has been said that Videogame openings were not taken into consideration, but in THIS case, the opening is "canon" (canon to the plot of the game, at least)
Remember what I said about the VOCALOIDs' singing abilities being tied to the power of the crystals? This OP shows exactly that. The power of Crystals is fading. The whole stage goes dark, Miku and the others' are literally unable to sing. Ultimate Miku arrives, helps her counterpart and gives her the crystal, and that's when the game begins, with Miku's and the Players' quest to re-fill with Voltage those things, and slowly but surely helping the other VOCALOIDs to regain their singing voices.
So, how does it relate to PVs being real or not? It's simple. The stage where Miku is singing goes off in the very moment the power of the Crystals fades away. When this happens, Miku is literally powerless and needs to be helped by her "other self" (whoever she is).
What I think is: What does happen in PVs IS real, but not as something done by Miku herself, but most likely as a fabrication / spectacularization made by the Crystals' power.
Conclusion:
VOCALOIDS' power is heavely tied to Crystals. When the power of Crystals fades away, they are literally powerless, they can't even sing. If they somehow manage to sing, however, they can cumulate VOLTAGE and increase the Crystal's Power. The Crystal's Power is used as a fuel to make the songs themselves more enjoyable, and can grant the users with some abilities (I.E. Flying).
Also, the Crystals are shared between VOCALOIDs, so it's not like they have different powers or something.
Flying Abilities
1:30
Teleportation (She does that in Concert Mode as well when switching between songs)
1:33
Duplication (Two Mikus)
Pretty much the whole video
Reality Warped an entire planet into becoming full of life and grew much bigger than said planet.
This has been discussed in the other thread, but I think this has to be counted as a feat.
As I've been saying, the abilities shown in PVs are fruit of the Crystal's Power - I HIGHLY doubt that such a goddess does indeed exist in Miku's word as a separate character (she would be, like, totally out of place in a music-centered virtual world like the one from Diva X) so I think this goddess was just made by Miku's / Crystal's power for the sake of the song.
All the other stuff that has already been written in the current Miku's page
Multiple Personalities Disorder
Oh, and by the way, since we're talking about Project Diva X here.
Multiple Personalities
In Project Diva X, VOCALOIDs change their attitute dramatically depending on what they're wearing - And they do this even OUTSIDE of the songs and when they talk to you.
Essentially, there are 5 types of modules (dresses) in the game (Classic, Cool, Cute, Elegant, Eccentric). The characters act very differently and change their personality depending on what they're wearing.
Project Diva X Vocaloid personalities distinct yet malleable
This is based solely on Project Diva X. VOCALOIDs are not only that.
I get it, but, seriously, do you have any better ideas?
Project Diva X, as far as I know, it's the only game that gives a minimum depth and explaination on how this Universe works. And it certainly fits with the theme of our favourite girl, since it's music centered and everything.
Also looking how Miku works IRL, it also fits. She is a Yamaha voice synthtetizing program, so it makes sense that her own power is based entirely on songs and popularity (VOLTAGE and Crystals are literally a rappresentation of that).
The more she sings, the more she gets popoular. The more she gets popoular, the more stuff she does. It's a circle.
The characters that wee see in Videogames and Videos are literally a rappresentation of that!
How far can the power of Crystals can go? Reality Manipulation?
That's a very... very good question. Determining the extent of the power of Crystals is not easy, given that PVs are probably their fabrication.
I mean, we have virtual realities, people that come back from the dead, people that go into space, people that grows gigantic, people that randomly transform into Chibis.
I think that the Crystal MAY have the power to literally bend the reality Miku is in, but at the same time, I'm sure that it cannot be usen in a random stance like, a fight against someone.
Crystals needs to be filled with VOLTAGE, and VOLTAGE is obtained by Miku singing. So, like, what is she supposed to do? Singing against the enemy she's facing or something? Can she even do that? Would that count as a proper song?
I wouldn't count that. In Project Diva X, each Crystal has shown to have 5 songs each with a definied theme (Classic, Elegant, Cute, Cool, Eccentric). You can't fill a Elegant Crystal by singing a Cool song for example. So, I think that Miku has to sing what the "Crystal" wants, not what "she" needs.
Finally definiying what Miku can do
So, that's what I think how the character should be definied.
While the power of Crystals is potentially enormous (and can probably bend reality), VOCALOIDs are limited by the fact that they have to sing the songs that the Crystal itself requires (the various songs from the Project Diva games). So using this ability properly in a battle would be very unlikely. (I don't know, maybe they can launch someone into space by singing Hello Planet or something similar, and kill the enemy by asphyxiation?)
VOCALOIDs powers are tied to Crystals. The "powers" they receive go from the simple singing to all the miscellanous abilities we see in PV.
Crystals power is running thanks to VOLTAGE. VOLTAGE is obtained thanks to the songs that Miku & Friends sings.
