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I've been doing a lot of research on Sonic scaling (and yes, playing through the god awful Sonic era that includes '06 and other games), and I think that a lot of scalers who work on the Sonic pages seem to really misinterpret the powers of the higher tier characters (Such as Super forms, Solaris and others).
For starters, I'll start off with Super Sonic:
This misconception seems to come from the fact that three Super forms were able to defeat Solaris, a being that "eats" time and timelines. Now no, this doesn't necessarily mean Solaris' tier needs be changed since it's been stated by the supergenius Dr. Eggman that he would eat all existing timelines and dimensions (Depending on how you see the cosmology Solaris would still be a 2-C or 2-B character), but the specific way the Super forms defeated Solaris does not guarantee that they are outright Multiversal in power.
We can see that in Sonic Generations, both Classic and Modern Super Sonic fight against a being similar but weaker than Solaris known as the Time Eater. Both of them are visibly affected by it's time slowdown.
Even then in the Solaris fight, they technically aren't in a Timeless Void. If they truly were, Eggman and the others would not be able to communicate with the hedgehogs and yet they still can. It's a situation more akin to something like the Null Realm in Dragon Ball Super where they state it's a place without time yet it's contradicted as people are able to freely move around and talk in the void.
It should also be noted that Super Sonic is most likely going to be nerfed in future Sonic games, as he clearly needed help against The End, whose only been shown to destroy planets.
"But Maginaryworld has multiple universe sized dream worlds for every person in existence!"
Not really, that's not how it works.
Maginaryworld is a place where dreams from multiple people co-exist. Based on the manual down below, the description implies that Maginaryworld is just a universe-sized realm made up of different dreams of people across the multiverse. (Credit to Paleomario66 for this screenshot)
Assuming the Sonicverse runs on a basic modern multiverse theory (Infinite universes/dimensions/timelines, same thing), Solaris could technically be highballed to Multiverse level+ if we were to go by Eggman Nega's definition of dimensions in Sonic Rush Adventure ("Haa ha ha ha! Oh, you poor thing. Allow me to explain. This world and Dr. Eggman's world exist in separate dimensions. Each of us can think of the other as what is known as a "parallel universe." What makes this possible is this so-called "Power of the Stars.") but it hasn't been proven that there's an infinite amount of parallel dimensions within the Game Sonic continuity from what I've researched.
The biggest thing that really needs to be acknowledged is that Sonic characters love to banter a lot. The End stating all Sonic's previous adversaries were finite while it was infinite doesn't automatically mean they solo stomp the Time Eater and Solaris. That's like taking Sonic's "growing by the second" banter as proof that he has some Saitama-style power growth by doing nothing despite it never being backed up by any guidebooks.
But that seems to be about it. Sonic is a hard series to interpret in power scaling due to the plot holes and inconsistencies of the 2000s so I did my best to better interpret some things.
For starters, I'll start off with Super Sonic:
Super Sonic
Debunking Multiversal Super forms
Most of the Super forms for characters are depicted as Multiverse level and have Immeasurable Speed at their strongest, which I think is blatantly wrong.This misconception seems to come from the fact that three Super forms were able to defeat Solaris, a being that "eats" time and timelines. Now no, this doesn't necessarily mean Solaris' tier needs be changed since it's been stated by the supergenius Dr. Eggman that he would eat all existing timelines and dimensions (Depending on how you see the cosmology Solaris would still be a 2-C or 2-B character), but the specific way the Super forms defeated Solaris does not guarantee that they are outright Multiversal in power.
- They weren't able to defeat Solaris by matching his raw strength, they specifically targeted his core because it's the only thing that's even tangible on Solaris. He's stated to be "super-dimensional" (specifically fourth dimensional) and on another plane of existence. There's even more proof as they cannot penetrate Solaris' shield and have to wait for him to actually lower it.
- The way the Super Hedgehogs defeated Solaris was by specifically targeting his core in the past, present and future. Depending on how you interpret Sonic's concept of time, this could also mean they were everywhere in time all at once but that would make absolutely zero sense at all from both a story and scaling perspective. There were three primary time periods that were time traveled to throughout the game, and it's implied that traveling to these three periods of time in whatever was left of the timeline was how they were able to defeat Solaris' consciousness as he exists simultaneously throughout these time periods, hence they defeated him in the past (10 years prior to the Soleanna festival), present (Present day where the game takes place), and the future (Silver's future).
Debunking Immeasurable
Next I want to talk about the Immeasurable Speed scaling, and I want to say this outright: Super forms are NOT Immeasurable in speed.We can see that in Sonic Generations, both Classic and Modern Super Sonic fight against a being similar but weaker than Solaris known as the Time Eater. Both of them are visibly affected by it's time slowdown.
Even then in the Solaris fight, they technically aren't in a Timeless Void. If they truly were, Eggman and the others would not be able to communicate with the hedgehogs and yet they still can. It's a situation more akin to something like the Null Realm in Dragon Ball Super where they state it's a place without time yet it's contradicted as people are able to freely move around and talk in the void.
Scaling Estimation
The best source to estimate the Super form's tier would probably be Sonic Rush, where Super Sonic and Burning Blaze fight against the Egg Salamander, which is going to merge both Sonic and Blaze's dimensions together. The Chaos and Sol Emeralds are roughly equal to each other since they're dimensional counterparts, and ES drained all the energy from the Sol Emeralds. ES is able to damage both Sonic and Blaze transformed, which would put Super Sonic and Burning Blaze around a Low Multiverse level as a fair middle ground. I won't use any Power of the Stars scaling because we never see it actually being used at it's full capacity (It's strongest attack is only a planet buster) and even then they win with the help of Marine.It should also be noted that Super Sonic is most likely going to be nerfed in future Sonic games, as he clearly needed help against The End, whose only been shown to destroy planets.
Solaris
Maginaryworld Debunk
Solaris, the super dimensional sun god of Soleanna, is probably the strongest being in the entire Game Sonic universe as he's the only antagonist outside of maybe the Time Eater who have power beyond that of a universal level. But even still, his scaling is quite odd because technically there's no proof that there's over 1001 space-time continuums within the Sonicverse (unless you really want to wank the Arabian Nights' 1001 worlds being universes despite it clearly not being the case)."But Maginaryworld has multiple universe sized dream worlds for every person in existence!"
Not really, that's not how it works.
Maginaryworld is a place where dreams from multiple people co-exist. Based on the manual down below, the description implies that Maginaryworld is just a universe-sized realm made up of different dreams of people across the multiverse. (Credit to Paleomario66 for this screenshot)
Scaling
It's probably safe to downgrade Solaris to something along the lines of "Low Multiverse level, likely far higher" as we do not know the full capacity of his power, nor do we know how large the Sonic multiverse is. Not a necessary change really, but it would be much more accurate and safe from a scaling perspective.Assuming the Sonicverse runs on a basic modern multiverse theory (Infinite universes/dimensions/timelines, same thing), Solaris could technically be highballed to Multiverse level+ if we were to go by Eggman Nega's definition of dimensions in Sonic Rush Adventure ("Haa ha ha ha! Oh, you poor thing. Allow me to explain. This world and Dr. Eggman's world exist in separate dimensions. Each of us can think of the other as what is known as a "parallel universe." What makes this possible is this so-called "Power of the Stars.") but it hasn't been proven that there's an infinite amount of parallel dimensions within the Game Sonic continuity from what I've researched.
Frontiers Changes
I think the Titans and The End should be downgraded from a 2-B tier, because we never see them display feats of that caliber. The End has really only been shown destroying planets while the Titans are powered by one Chaos Emerald, which at it's best has only been shown to move continents.The biggest thing that really needs to be acknowledged is that Sonic characters love to banter a lot. The End stating all Sonic's previous adversaries were finite while it was infinite doesn't automatically mean they solo stomp the Time Eater and Solaris. That's like taking Sonic's "growing by the second" banter as proof that he has some Saitama-style power growth by doing nothing despite it never being backed up by any guidebooks.
But that seems to be about it. Sonic is a hard series to interpret in power scaling due to the plot holes and inconsistencies of the 2000s so I did my best to better interpret some things.
