Death of Endless vs The Living Tribunal

[Delta3000]

DC Presence and Vertigo Presence are the same being as Vertigo is part of DC.

 

[TheSandman31]

At least
Should be used to denote the lower cap of a character, if the exact value is indeterminate

Likely
Should be used to list a hypothetical statistic for a character, but inconclusive due to lack of feats or viable power-scaling. Probability of said hypothetical statistic should be favourable.

Having likely doesn't mean that a character is weaker than a solid High 1-B or High 1-C

you cant say someone loses just because he is a Likely 2-C

but you can use At least in an argument because it means that that character is above baseline

 

[LuckyCharmingStar]

(Shouldn't dream be high 1-B tho.)

Well In the void where The Living tribunal exist is beyond anything,real,imagination etc

And Protege with all the abstract power was to go beyond Lt power.

But LT stated that even the protege with Lt power has no meaning in the realm where he exist the since those power doesn't exist there.(also he sits on all things)

 

[LuckyCharmingStar]

He even sealed the protege to his own being.

 

[TheSandman31]

Dream is high 1-B though and a powerful one at that (he's like a combination of Eternity,infinity and The Never Queen) and Death killed him with a touch

I know Protege

Dude wrecked abstracts then got beaten by a Celestial asspull plot device that only appeared once by putting a fishbowl on his head.Lol

Then never appeared again.

 

[LuckyCharmingStar]

When the Living tribunal no longer exist no being is stronger or weaker which mean no one can will on other beings. Even Ego could have the power above celestials& Galactus.

 

[TheSandman31]

We cant use that.That's under the Unknow LT key.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Firstly... Do a revision before saying all of this There are a few people that scale to LT even a little bit ( IG ) that would benefit from such a thing. So if you have 1-A or even High 1-A arguments, say something on a revision thread... Otherwise DON'T say it as an legitimate argument.

Unfortunately we have a rule against using the scan from Cosmic Cubes . We have a rule also about debating whether or not LT is 1-A . I normally wouldn't mind, but if Matt or Ant is aware of what is taking place... There are quite a few discussion rules being broken here .

Death affecting Destiny who can affect a 1-A being is infinitely above anything Tribunal has ever offically done that's on his profile . Secondly if this realm of the LT is as transcendent as you say, IG scales because LT stated it had the ability to destroy said realm that is beyond everything.

Without all of that, let me debate here. Death of the Endless , witht he feats she has, is far stronger than. LT or even Pre-Retcon Beyonder. We agreed on this, yet we believe THIS is a legitimate match. It's about as fair as puting Bowser against Featherine .

 

[LuckyCharmingStar]

@Sand also Dream shouldn't be above the neverqueen.

But the funny thing is that Protege only fought against the M-body of Living tribunal.

 

[LuckyCharmingStar]

Ig doesn't scale to LT...

 

[LuckyCharmingStar]

The only person I can think of that actaully scale above the might of LT is the beyonders(true body),Oblivion,Protege(Mbody),Beyonder pre recton(m-body) , pre recton MM( Mbody) and Current Moleculeman(truebody)

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I meant scaling to the realm you were referring to. It would scale to anyone comparable to the IG, which would include Child FR . You are correct with the people who scale to True LT however .

 

[LuckyCharmingStar]

And also Neverqueen and Eternity creating 1-A place called the place to be.

 

[TheSandman31]

The Dark Multiverse is a realm that is possibly' under Dreams domain was so big that it was described that its' like an ocean where the Multiverse floats.The multiverse where an infinite number of universes are created every moment is small compared to the Dark Multiverse

Dream was also the reason why the Presence exist (but still The Presence>>>>Dream just to be clear). But this still show how powerful Dream is

Here

There's even an aspect of him that exist in a "space beyond space"

basically the aspect of Dream seen by those beings who sleep in unreality waiting for the end of the multiverse or something like that

 

[TheSandman31]

And also Neverqueen and Eternity creating 1-A place called the place to be.

Go create a CTR, this is a VS thread.

I think that has also been discussed and were not allowed

 

[LuckyCharmingStar]

The Dark Multiverse is a realm that is possibly' under Dreams domain was so big that it was described that its' like an ocean where the Multiverse floats.The multiverse where an infinite number of universes are created every moment is small compared to the Dark Multiverse
Dream was also the reason why the Presence exist (but still The Presence>>>>Dream just to be clear). But this still show how powerful Dream is

Here

There's even an aspect of him that exist in a "space beyond space"

basically the aspect of Dream seen by those beings who sleep in unreality waiting for the end of the multiverse or something like that

It wasn't stated that dream shapes Presence appearance but it counts for every beings that shapes presence.

 

[LuckyCharmingStar]

And also Neverqueen and Eternity creating 1-A place called the place to be.

Go create a CTR, this is a VS thread.
I think that has also been discussed and were not allowed

Ik but Ant keep saying just because they are multiverses they can't be above high 1-B etc etc.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I have already said that for a while... Unless you can argue that Eternity can at times be and not be the embodiments of the Multiverse ( There are actualy 3 examples of him being 1-A, 2 of them debunked here already. If you can prove that Lucky... They can be upgraded. Otheriwse you are kinda on thin ice... I'm not going to argue for that anymore thouguh. I refused to be banned over stuff like this . )

 

[LuckyCharmingStar]

I have already said that for a while... Unless you can argue that Eternity can at times be and not be the embodiments of the Multiverse ( There are actualy 3 examples of him being 1-A, 2 of them debunked here already. If you can prove that Lucky... They can be upgraded. Otheriwse you are kinda on thin ice... I'm not going to argue for that anymore thouguh. I refused to be banned over stuff like this . )

They weren't debunked its just ant saying they aren't high 1-B Yiu can search most topics and seeing other admins agree with that.

 

[TheSandman31]

Here

http://i.imgur.com/M2APYav.jpg http://i.imgur.com/qS2iccW.jpg http://i.imgur.com/Q2KKA1W.jpg http://i.imgur.com/O7GHcMa.jpg http://i.imgur.com/1madhTs.jpg

Also creating a 1-A space doesnt make you 1-A.Thats like High 1-A stuff

The Dreaming was also said to be beyond time and space and even beyond real and the unreal

same stuff like that.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Most is the keyword. The other admins i knew agree with the arguments for 'Higher' , but ... You're going to have to to make Ant and Matt agree with you if you want these upgrades.

Death of the Endless , based on current feats on the profile, seems stronger. Until the profiles changes for higher tiers for LT [ Which i severely doubt will occur ] , my stance stays.

 

[LuckyCharmingStar]

Matt did tho but Ant didn't I can give you a couple threads which matt agree with it.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

... I mean Ant more than likely. The reason he doesn't want to is because it will cause a messup in scaling. One word " Inconsistency " is the reason he won't accept this.

 

[LuckyCharmingStar]

Yeah its actually only ant not agreeing with. you can truly see that the other admins agrees with it.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

But the main problem i have with that reasoning... Is that Marvel Comics is the most inconsistent comicbook of all time. In fact, Ant literally said in my previous thread that the ratings we have now can be seen as "Inconsistent" . That's the ony problem. We should have the profiles in terms of accepting this inconsistencies , and all of it's varying tiers. If he is reading this : I know it will take a lot of work, I am not saying it isn't. But in my honest opinion, it's the only way to truly accept how varying the tiers are in Marvel. Obvious outliers should be ignored ( Black Panther , IG & God Doom [ Even though there are three statements comparing themselves to each other , i am not saying i agree with it, but yeah... ] , Dormammu and Multi-Eternity , etcetera. ) .

 

[LuckyCharmingStar]

Here
http://i.imgur.com/M2APYav.jpg http://i.imgur.com/qS2iccW.jpg http://i.imgur.com/Q2KKA1W.jpg http://i.imgur.com/O7GHcMa.jpg http://i.imgur.com/1madhTs.jpg

Also creating a 1-A space doesnt make you 1-A.Thats like High 1-A stuff

The Dreaming was also said to be beyond time and space and even beyond real and the unreal

same stuff like that.

And also Dream just cut off Lucifer wings? Lucifer also stated taht he didn't wanted to harm dream.

 

[TheSandman31]

Lucifer told Dream to cut his wings because he's leaving hell. He also said that he won't harm Dream because Dream was so scared of Lucifer that he thinks that battling him is a suicide mission

 

[LuckyCharmingStar]

Lucifer told Dream to cut his wings because he's leaving hell. He also said that he won't harm Dream because Dream was so scared of Lucifer that he thinks that battling him is a suicide missio

and this feat is above every High 1-B level?

 

[TheSandman31]

Lucifer told Dream to cut his wings because he's leaving hell. He also said that he won't harm Dream because Dream was so scared of Lucifer that he thinks that battling him is a suicide missio

and this feat is above every High 1-B level?

That isn't even a feat...

also Lucifer is a 1-A who once 1 shot a 1-A and Mazikeen with his powers turned Gabriel to a 1-A.So Dream being scared of Lucifer is only natural

Lucifer would stomp everyone in Marvel except TOAA

 

[LuckyCharmingStar]

Lucifer told Dream to cut his wings because he's leaving hell. He also said that he won't harm Dream because Dream was so scared of Lucifer that he thinks that battling him is a suicide missio

and this feat is above every High 1-B level?

That isn't even a feat...
also Lucifer is a 1-A who once 1 shot a 1-A and Mazikeen with his powers turned Gabriel to a 1-A.So Dream being scared of Lucifer is only natural

Lucifer would stomp everyone on Marvel except TOAA

not wasn't my question lol.

 

[TheSandman31]

I answered your question

that's not a feat for Dream but for Lucifer.

I interpreted your question as sarcasm so I just added that piece information, just in case.

It's hard to detect sarcasm on the internet unless it's obvious

 

[LuckyCharmingStar]

I answered your question
that's not a feat for Dream but for Lucifer.

I interpreted your question as sarcasm so I just added that piece information, just in case.

It's hard to detect sarcasm on the internet unless it's obvious

I was asking for dream not lucifer.lol

 

[TheSandman31]

Lucifer told Dream to cut his wings because he's leaving hell. He also said that he won't harm Dream because Dream was so scared of Lucifer that he thinks that battling him is a suicide missio

Are you asking if this feat is above High 1-B or are you asking for feats of Dream that are above High 1-B?

 

[LuckyCharmingStar]

Lucifer told Dream to cut his wings because he's leaving hell. He also said that he won't harm Dream because Dream was so scared of Lucifer that he thinks that battling him is a suicide missio

Are you asking if this feat is above High 1-B or are you asking for feats of Dream that are above High 1-B?

This one

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I don't think it's above High 1-B. Didn't he allow Dream to do it ?

 

[TheSandman31]

Yeah, that's what I am saying from the start.Its not a feat for Dream because Lucifer ALLOWED it.

 

[LuckyCharmingStar]

where is feat of dream affecting lucifer?

 

[TheSandman31]

What, no...

Dream only manage to cut lucifers wings because he allowed and told him to

That's what I'm saying Dream didn't affect Lucifer.Only Destiny can affect Lucifer in a so little way it doesn't even matter

It's not a feat for Dream

 

[TheSandman31]

Heres Death claiming one aspect of Dream.

Aspects of Dream gathering ,one aspect of Dream is the Dream of those that sleep in space beyond space and space beneath space

You cant kill Dream as long things that Dreams exist you can kill an aspect but Dream won't die

Here's another feat of Dream where he retconned Creation so that Mother Night and Father Time 'srelationship won't turn sour causing the end of existence (he killed a mad star preventing cancer to creation or something like that)

it seems like he retconned creation again

 

[LuckyCharmingStar]

Ohhh I thought you said that lol.