DEATH BATTLE! Accuracy Scale [Part 10, The more things change, the more they stay the same]

[ShionAH]

Superman can't really access 6th Dimensional Suns normally and pretty sure Heroes Goku still haxstomps that version.

Doesnt Supes speed blitz?

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I'm talking about World Forger feat

Oh ic

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Doesnt Supes speed blitz?

Heroes Goku Immeasurable

 

[ShionAH]

Heroes Goku Immeasurable

Yeah but isnt DC Immesurable speed layers above baseline or smth? I am not too much knowledged on DC but I heard that stuff

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Yeah but isnt DC Immesurable speed layers above baseline or smth? I am not too much knowledged on DC but I heard that stuff

Rebirth Supes is only listed as MFTL+

 

[ShionAH]

Rebirth Supes is only listed as MFTL+

I mean, wiki is pretty controversial on their DC takes lol

Fair though

 

[Deagonx]

I am surprised they characterized the World Forger punch as Superman "destroying the entire multiverse" when it explicitly was not.

 

[TMaakkonen]

I guess they are afraid to talk about higher dimensions without info boxes so 6D Forger becomes Multiversal.

 

[Deagonx]

I guess they are afraid to talk about higher dimensions without info boxes so 6D Forger becomes Multiversal.

Well, the Sixth Dimension isn't "6-D" in a spatiotemporal sense, and neither is the Fifth. It's fairly vague, so its hard to incorporate.

 

[TMaakkonen]

I didnt read their extended Superman blog, but I heard 1-C Supes was mentioned, unless it was via another feat.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

I am surprised they characterized the World Forger punch as Superman "destroying the entire multiverse" when it explicitly was not.

They were talking about World Forger's masterpiece he destroyed

 

[Deagonx]

They were talking about World Forger's masterpiece he destroyed

I'm aware. Superman didn't destroy it in the sense that his attack was so powerful that it blew it up or something. His attack only hit World Forger, which prevented him from striking his hammer. As a result the replacement Multiverse fell apart, indirectly a result of Superman's actions. It wasn't a feat for Superman (aside from him punching WF)

 

[Da3ggman]

Well, the Sixth Dimension isn't "6-D" in a spatiotemporal sense, and neither is the Fifth. It's fairly vague, so its hard to incorporate.

Even just the 5th should be High 1-B, but let's not go down that rabbit hole.

 

[Imaginym]

Actually, the episode has somewhat ignore many of the Doctor's stuff to make the battle look fairer.

What stuff, if I may ask?

 

[Imaginym]

Yeaah, in theory it shouldnt affect Godhead? And that seems Iffy then, but doesnt Thanos have subliminal mental problem that causes him to lose, so he would be cocky enough to try to enter Godhead DS's domain?

1-A being limited in range is silly tho lol

From https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Attack_Potency

"An alternative term for Destructive Capacity which has more direct meaning: The Destructive Capacity that an attack is equivalent to. A character with a certain degree of attack potency does not necessarily need to cause destructive feats on that level, but can cause damage to characters that can withstand such forces. As such it isn't proof of a low attack potency, if a character's attacks only cause a small amount of destruction.

We are aware that this technically violates the principle of conservation of energy, as it should logically disperse upon impact, but fiction generally tends to ignore this fact, so we overlook it as well.

Also, kindly remember that Attack Potency is the measure of Destructive Capacity of an attack, and as such, is measured via its energy damage equivalent. Hence, characters that destroy mountains or islands are not automatically mountain or island level, especially if they are small. The attack potency depends on the energy output of a single attack, not the area of effect of the attack.

Keep in mind that certain tiers do not necessarily correspond to the destruction of their namesakes in any meaningful fashion. This is because the minimum requirements for these tiers are arbitrary values."


TL;DR - Being a tier, even 1-A doesn't mean having a given range. It primarily means being able to damage characters -Or other things, since feats don't always involve characters- that are that tier.
Bigger tier does not mean bigger destruction.

So to me, it makes sense that even if some version of Thanos is 1-A with some version of The Infinity Gauntlet, that doesn't mean he's shooting Outerverse-destroying laser beams or whatever, for example. Just that his beams can damage Outerverse level stuff.
& if Thanos's Infinity Gauntlet doesn't work outside of Earth-616, then I don't think it's gonna work in Godhead Darkseid's domain.

 

[Imaginym]

Well, the Sixth Dimension isn't "6-D" in a spatiotemporal sense, and neither is the Fifth. It's fairly vague, so its hard to incorporate.

What is known about it?

(Sorry if anyone minds me doing so many posts in a row.)

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

Yeah people just misinterpret this feat a lot by taking WF's statement literally. Punching out WF should be as good anyway

I'm aware. Superman didn't destroy it in the sense that his attack was so powerful that it blew it up or something. His attack only hit World Forger, which prevented him from striking his hammer. As a result the replacement Multiverse fell apart, indirectly a result of Superman's actions. It wasn't a feat for Superman (aside from him punching WF)

 

[Abysswalker2126]

Uh question does galactus have any way of defeating unicron and vice versa? While at their peaks galactus has higher scaling but is that enough to bypass Unicron’s High-Godly regen, Immortality, and higher dimensionality?

 

[Abysswalker2126]

And what if they don’t give galactus his higher non standard forms on his profile ?

 

[Mariogoods]

What stuff, if I may ask?

Many of the Doctor's comic stuffs.

 

[Imaginym]

Many of the Doctor's comic stuffs.

Ahhh. I doubt you'd be willing to share the details of which stuff specifically, please?

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Uh question does galactus have any way of defeating unicron and vice versa? While at their peaks galactus has higher scaling but is that enough to bypass Unicron’s High-Godly regen, Immortality, and higher dimensionality?

Ultimate Nullifier

 

[Mariogoods]

Ahhh. I doubt you'd be willing to share the details of which stuff specifically, please?

You could easily figure out if you check the Doctor's profile in VS Battles Wiki. For example, The Glory.

 

[Abysswalker2126]

Ultimate Nullifier

Does unicorn have any counters or advantages that might allow him to win?

 

[Da3ggman]

Does unicorn have any counters or advantages that might allow him to win?

No lmao

 

[Abysswalker2126]

No lmao

He might considering he has a lot of hax that isn’t resisted?

 

[Da3ggman]

He might considering he has a lot of hax that isn’t resisted?

Bro, he is literally the reason Heralds are called Heralds. Chances are he resists everything in existence (Tbh, I wouldn't doubt our page for him lacks a lot of shit given the recent Superman situation-)

 

[Deagonx]

Bro, he is literally the reason Heralds are called Heralds

I thought Silver Surfer was the main source of that term? As the quintessential herald of galactus

 

[Da3ggman]

I thought Silver Surfer was the main source of that term? As the quintessential herald of galactus

Who do you think gave Silver Surfer his title?

 

[Deagonx]

Who do you think gave Silver Surfer his title?

Oh I misunderstood what you meant.

 

[Abysswalker2126]

So even if Unicron stole the nulifier and used it against galactus it wouldn’t erase galactus?

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

So even if Unicron stole the nulifier and used it against galactus it wouldn’t erase galactus?

Isn't Galactus afraid of the ultimate nullifier.

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

A thought just came to me, but can't hakai negate Superman's supposed narrative-based immortality, as hakai already has feats of erasing characters who've no-sold narrative erasure and have such an immortality?

That aside, I wanted to ask about/discuss this "Story of Superman" I keep hearing about. I've seen a lot of discourse lately on places like Tiktok, Youtube, and Reddit about how base Superman is one of the top ten strongest in all of DC Comics, and casually has feats comparable to his Milkman self, far outclassing anything the Thought Robot has done. I've even seen a growing subset of people suggest that base Superman would solo the Presence and One Above All??? The basis for it is this concept called the Story of Superman from a WebCamParrot video, and the idea behind it is that Superman is a fundamental linchpin to the DC cosmos and the abstract concept of hope (something like the Endless, but on a far greater scale), so his narrative gives him passive plot armor hax, and resistance to history/conceptual/narrative erasure to the point where inhabitants of Final Heaven couldn't erase his story.

Am I the only one who sees this stuff, and can't help but find it very suspect? For one thing, I may be too unfamiliar with Doom Patrol storylines to know the whole context behind "Retconn Corps couldn't erase Superman's story," but didn't Milkman Superman get narratively erased following his brief appearance? Based on that, I don't think I'd call Superman's story necessarily infallible.

There's also the ordeal of a certain interpretation of Final Crisis. I'm talking about this scan. The main takeaway most people get from this scan is that the Overvoid was defenseless against the Story of Superman, which means Superman's narrative is Presence-level. But I don't believe that was what happened? The popular notion is that the Thought Robot exists as half of an extension of the Overvoid that was sent to inspect creation and narratives. What should've went down is that upon detecting the flaw (that being the stories of reality that contrast the Overvoid's blank canvas), the Overvoid sent the Monitor Dax Novu to investigate. The Overvoid didn't send an "extension of itself," but essentially an agent. That Monitor was immediately contaminated by the flaw (which appeared thematically as Superman) since it had no precedent for the notion of stories, and split in two. It wasn't necessarily that the Story of Superman exerted overwhelming power or something like that, it was more akin to a modern human going back in time, and killing everyone as a walking plague since ancient immune systems lack cross-immunity to modern pathogens. Basically, any other story would've caused Dax Novu to split, but Superman's story happened to appear for thematic reasons. Unless I'm the one heavily misconstruing it, I don't know how the popular interpretation became "the Story of Superman made the Overvoid itself collapse in its presence."

Here's what I roughly think. So recently, there's been scans spreading from a 2-issue storyline called Superman: The Kansas Sighting. Within those stories, Superman was sporadically mentally abducted by aliens from the collective unconscious plane, and on top of those creatures being depicted as transcendent super-dimensional beings, those aliens (one of whom manifested as Jor-El and acted as Clark's guide through the story) showed Superman "his true form" as a Kryptonian and whatnot, and with how metaphysically the Story was written, you get the WTF impression after fully digesting it that Clark is some kind of eldritch god figure. But honestly, a collective unconscious is just the summation of shared human concepts and ideals. Of course the concepts pertaining to Superman will be illustrated as something godly and impressive, just as every other human concept would appear since we're talking about an indescribable higher plane. However, I don't think these "eldritch true form powers" are something Clark can just tap into as opposed to something that exists. Likewise, obviously the Story of Superman is a tangible entity in the sense that if a reality warper like Featherine went to the DC multiverse, they'd see a concept, narrative, information, and history for Superman across the fabric of reality. Every character is assumed to have those fundamental parts of existence on an abstract level. There's no doubt Superman has plot armor in his stories from time to time, but I really don't think that base Superman at any given time across his nigh-century of publication could just tap into his abstract narrative and gain Presence-level luck manipulation/blessing.

Anyway, that's just my rambling. I want to hear other people's thoughts, as the Story of Superman seems to be something even death battle buys into now. Have i just not been reading enough Superman comics, lmao?

 

[Deagonx]

There was a Punisher comic where it turned out the Nullifier was fake.

 

[Deagonx]

but can't hakai negate Superman's supposed narrative-based immortality, as hakai already has feats of erasing characters who've no-sold narrative erasure and have such an immortality?

Tbh anyone who treats Superman as having "narrative based immortality" in a match up is goofy.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I feel like most of the narrative based immortality things for Superman aren't something to be taken too literally, like I feel for the most part, they aren't applicable for an actual VS debate.

Basically, I think the story of Superman is legit to some extent, but it's not something he can really use normally and it's a pretty situational ability. Like Superman can't just pull narrative immortality out on a whim.

I've seen a lot of discourse lately on places like Tiktok, Youtube, and Reddit about how base Superman is one of the top ten strongest in all of DC Comics, and casually has feats comparable to his Milkman self, far outclassing anything the Thought Robot has done.

He's not even top 10 strongest heralds...

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

You can't convince me that Superman V Goku doesn't have good research when there's people on the team who went through all of Superman and Dragon Ball media extensively detailing all of it to make this fight. Like hell, it was so good that OUR site is taking from it. And they weren't wrong about either character so I don't really understand how it could only be "decent." Superman with the World Forger sun-dip amp was like beyond space-time (In DC) which is way above Heroes.

 

[TMaakkonen]

Yeah, its kind of technicalities working here. Big one being Wrong winner automatically disallowing Good research (unless we really want to use that).

And then the profiles, unless they were updated within week and since I last checked, still point to SDBH Goku beating comics Superman? But this might change in future, as Bill's profile changes changed more than I thought.

And we are not favoring as much Ultra's blogs since they were outside of the episode itself.

Also the 6D sun amp seemingly had issues, even if Supes has other better feats used. Hell, do we want to open the can of worms that is Death Battle multiversal being 3-A?

 

[ShionAH]

Hell, do we want to open the can of worms that is Death Battle multiversal being 3-A?

Didnt they mention Multiversal stuff in the black boxes? About Heroes goku having Multi stuff but it would still not be enough because of 6D Supes

 

[TMaakkonen]

Didnt they mention Multiversal stuff in the black boxes? About Heroes goku having Multi stuff but it would still not be enough because of 6D Supes

It is relevant for older eps, so they might need re-eval as well.

Also even if its due to timing, I dont remember blackboxes mentioning 5D SDBH Goku.