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DC Crisis Era 8-C Scaling

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Callsign_Castle

Callsign_Castle

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Why do we scale nearly every character in this tier from Katana's feat?

1. Is this an outlier in her own run?

2. This is an outlier for almost every character that scales from this. Most notably, Batman, Nightwing, base Lex Luthor, and Deathstroke. Deathstroke alone owns these guys on the regular, and off the top of my head, he is consistently barely bullet-timing (or consistent scaling him above Cassandra Cain). Plus if I remember correctly, either Post-Crisis or N52 Deathstroke fights an AI controlled Luthor Warsuit, and manages to survive against it and incomplete Bizarro clones.

His only speed "feats" that are remotely capable of reaching MHS, are fighting against the Job Force speedsters.

3. As far as the AP goes, I still disagree. Deathstroke is consistently shot and killed by bullets (he's immortal in this continuity). Its how he got his missing eye from Adeline shooting him through the back of the head. He was gunned down by Deadshot, shot in the head by his brother Wade, etc, and this is only small arms fire.

I'm new to reading comics, so maybe there is something I'm missing.
 
Well, we usually go by the higher feats, not the average feats, or Thor and Superman would just be High 8-C or so.
 
Well, it is hard to evaluate precisely where to draw the line. For example, we use Thor's 4-B feat of destroying Surtur's portal, but not the 3-B feat of preventing 1/5th of the universe from being destroyed.
 
You can ask Matthew Schroeder to comment here if you wish.
 
We have to go with some level of consistency in higher feats so it's kind of a false equivalency to compare 9-B Deathstroke or something to High 8-C Superman when one is much more reasonable than the other.

Comic book characters, even ones far more powerful and shown to be capable of tanking far more than bullets, are often hurt all the time by bullets anyways. I don't think it really means that much.

I vaguely remember the discussion and I remember there were other 8-C feats discussed and that that went into the verdict.
 
Dont remember where exactly, but didnt Lex Luthor had a feat of defeating two Amazons by himself in one of the comics? Not to mention him defeating Joker somewhere as well?

I dont know much about the scaling and all those things in verse, so I am not really the best to talk about it, but I did see someone posting a image of Lex feat against Amazons chicks when asked why Lex was 8-C and shit
 
"Comic book characters, even ones far more powerful and shown to be capable of tanking far more than bullets, are often hurt all the time by bullets anyways. I don't think it really means that much."

Shouldn't it matter if the characters are only peak human/low tier superhuman by nature?

And does that mean the 5 scans I've provided of Deathstroke fighting speedsters not make him speedster tier?
 
Oh, of course, but I don't think Deathstroke is low tier superhuman; maybe he's presented as such, but feats say differently; see Charles Atlas Superpower. Characters that fiction treats as peak human or low tier superhumans are often much, much stronger than that.

Pretty sure that's a different ballpark

Either way I'm not necessarily arguing against a downgrade, just saying that 'hurt by bullets' logic isn't necessarily airtight when everyone gets hurts by bullets in fiction
 
Wonder Woman is generally treated as far more powerful than regular Amazons.
 
@Prom

Then comics seem very inconsistent. What's the point of Batman wearing bullet resistant armor and Slade having bullet and knifeproof armor if they're strong enough to take bullets? Comic logic?

And Slade himself saying the experiment increased his body ten-fold, and increased his mind's abilities 9 times?

Are statements like those directly contradicted, for example, in a scene where he does a feat that we're told 100 men couldn't do?
 
Marvel is considerably more inconsistent than DC.
 
@Call

Even simple feats like punching through a wall, one of their most basic feats, requires hundreds to thousands of times regular human strength.

This is insanely consistent for people like Batman and Deathstroke, as well as the entire Bat family.

Even making people fly, breaking necks, crushing skulls, etc, require more than 10x.
 
Depends on the wall and how thick it is. Trained humans can punch through brick and cinderblock.

Still, comics seem hard to rate. If a character has multiple feats of something that should be an outlier, is it still an outlier?
 
It depends. We have to evaluate what seems like reasonably consistent high-end feats on a case-to-case basis.
 
Like this, this, or this is what I mean.

Agree there. Well, that's what power scaling is for. If a character far more consistently scales to someone, or has a reason (eg. they can scale to supes for being kryptonian) it makes sense.

I personally agree with you on Building level being a little too high when tiers like Wall level or Small Building level are far more consistent for them.
 
This is entirely consistent (especially when you consider Joker surviving a Helicopter explosion, Bane tanking an exploding building and thunderbolts etc)

I don't mean to be rude but a downgrade is rather unnecessary if I'm honest.
 
If you are talking to me, I wasn't saying I think they should be downgraded. Just that those tiers are more consistent.
 
It depends generally if Deathstroke has his suit (I think it's Nth metal or Promethium). It amps his strength to levels far exceeding his normal.

Sometimes his base is, in some extremely rare instances, portrayed as barely superhuman without it.
 
So should we close this thread, or does somebody want to ask Matthew as well?
 
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