Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
I could tell from those scans that the feat was taken out of context and read the comic. The gods live on Mount Olympus and need to move on from there, doing so is a classic comicbook cosmic event that follows its own made up rules; They need to destroy Olympus first, so they harness "the greatest power in all Olympus", prayers from the only people that believe on them, put it along "the amassed strength of the entire pantheon (of gods)" and use all that to shoot the fireball at Diana, whose pointed out to be helped by the protective power of her bracelets, that they were part of Zeus' mightly aegis itself, that the impenetrable shield formed from the hide of the great goat Amaltheia, who wet-nursed the infant Zeus & this provided the energy from which Olympus sprung, that it has the power of the aegis, that Amaltheia's power formed the corner stone of Olympus and her power will destroy it. Diana will charge a cosmic force, the accumulated energies of the gods intensified by Amazon prayer, and deflect it with her bracelets, the "fireball" will receive Amaltheaia's kiss (touch the bracelets) and be transformed into a burst more awesome than before. (Note!: Amalthea is the foster-motehr of Zeus, "Aegis" is a device carried by Athena and Zeus, the modern concept of doing something "under someone's aegis" means doing something under the protection of a powerful, knowledgeable, or benevolent source. One of its meanings is "The shield of a deity", which is pretty objectively its use here)
- Wonder Woman withstands and deflects a fireball with infinite power. (Wonder Woman Vol. 2 #21, October 1988)
So,
- The "fireball" has the accumulated power of all the gods in that comic (all of them minus Ares) intensified by prayers, which itself is a greater power than any one god that lives in Olympus. Note that even 1 god is more powerful than WW.
- WW did this solely due to their bracelets, her bracelets scale, not her at all. Even then she was pretty overwhelmed by doing this.
- WW has the ability to amp cosmic/godly energies deflected by her bracelets, so very situational Stats Amp for her.
- Whoever submitted this feat sounds like such a fraud. To anyone with less experience in Vs Debates I say this in terms of results shown, not intentionality, never intentionality, nobody is ever doing to "do things wrong on purpose" in their own word, let alone admit it. At worst they do things wrong while lacking the care to improve upon the flaws that led to that, so they consistency keep on doing things wrong in the future, and if an OP thing they propose fails then it doesn't matter the reasoning behind why it's wrong so much as the fact that it was rejected currently, some other OP thing may be proposed tomorrow, it's fun. I say this in the hopes that it may positively help should anything close to this be recognized by anyone, as this worst case scenario is to be avoided or grow out of, but if you don't personally believe it applies then great for you, but that's that.
I have rejected that scan in the past, Flash's body mass incresing towards infinity doesn't mean he has infinite mass as in High 3-A, but that he has an ever-incresing mass the more he reaches lightspeed, with no limit to it. He didn't reach infinity as in High 3-A, the scan doesn't say that. The rules for this are variable anyway, a Speedster going at lightspeed can also make them have enough mass to destroy themselves uncontrollably as they become a singularity (See here the last feat in AP and Note 2)
Power with relation of the universe=/=High 3-A. This is completely unpresentable and it shows a massive lack of standards, it's wrong, not .
- Dreggs have the power of a Universe(New Gods Vol. 3 #26, May 1991)
This is such anti-feat for Low 2-C. If any one of them was Low 2-C, one quick attack would do it, yet they have have to continually shoot for a long time, not only is this something they can't do alone, but even if it was 1 character doing this the fact that it's over some time means their every regular blow would be lower than this & thus wouldn't scale. There is a small, actually dumb logic tangle to this; "Low 2-C divided is still Low 2-C, so the fractions of it shown don't matter", right? Wrong, it's wanting to have your cake and eat it, under that own (correct) logic the fact that 1 character alone couldn't do it means 1 alone isn't Low 2-C, as they should be as that stat can't be divided, making it mean that their combined attacks being channeled by someone that controls energy has it greater than the individual sum of its parts, because again, 1 Low 2-C attack alone would do it otherwise. Same with the time it took them to charge this, if their every punch, kick, energy blast, etc. at their peak was Low 2-C then 1 quick blast would do it, as since it has to be continuous for some time that means what can be acquired doing that is greater than their every punch, kick, energy blast, etc. at their peak. "Low 2-C can't be divided" is used as a tool, what serves of it is used, and what contradicts things is literally inconceivable, that is being disingenuous.
- Superman, Captain Atom, Darkstar and the Ray contribute to the energy of a Big Bang. (Zero Hour: Crisis in Time #0, September 1994)
The Spectre is the one that fills what they were accumulating into what turned into a new universe anyway, I don't think I need to say what this means.
Sculpt space-time are abilities, I know it's there "for context", but it shouldn't, as no profile's AP would say that. Similar with having "the energies of space and time".
- Infinite-Man's power can sculpt space-time, could destroy the Universe, including the timestream (Legionnaires Vol. 1 #18, September 1994), and has the energies of space and time (Superboy and the Legion of Super-Heroes Vol. 1 #233, November 1977)
I went to see the comic for context, after all "We thought we could find answers about our past in the past-- --and gave no thought to how badly the timescream was damaged before we took a deep plunse!" clearly implies the timescream was damaged beforehand and that what they do is otherwise inoffensive thing that's only causing issues due to that damage the timescream already had, and what I found was laughable. Legit the first scan; "The thirtieth century is crumbling. Each new second brings with another paradox... Each heartbeat, another contradiction in chronal continuity. Heroes thought long dead reappear without warning...while champions cherished as vital and alive vanish just as suddenly... ...and with each such entrance and exist the temporal fabric that knits the universe frays chllingly further." The timescream was already pretty f*cked up, Infinite-Man's power was a push further that would destroy it. This is following DC's rules on paradoxes and contradictions in a timeline that on their own damage a timeline, not AP.
That same first scan also says that Infinite-Man's power "might have contained the carnage", which means he might have been able to fix the paradoxes and contradictions talked about in that page, which is unqualifiable as they don't destroy the timeline or universe on its own, it's those 2 villains further f*cking things up that would cause that, and it's Space-Time hax anyway that fixes some things here and there that aren't meant to be a certain way (People being in points in time where they're not meant to, use Space-Time hax to fix that is pretty worthless).
I'll go over the rest soon.
Wow, perhaps we shouldn't go for unprovoked insults?Whoever submitted this feat sounds like such a fraud.
Yes, that was an inappropriate comment. Please make an effort to be polite, Eficiente.Wow, perhaps we shouldn't go for unprovoked insults?
…well that was uncalled for.Whoever submitted this feat sounds like such a fraud.
We know wally is powerful enough even wally himself should know how powerful he is already and MT was talking based on potential and standard, besides it's already established the speed force contains infinite energy plus wally few issues before the book had a new special connection to the Speed Force called the "surge" iirc, and stomped a full speed force amped savitar by having his own special raw connection to it(same Savitar can cause an environmental destruction that can destroy the Omniverse). Of course moving at lightspeed grants infinite mass but MT wasn't talking about that but Power, and made it clear Wally can destroy the world then mention countless lives, he didn't say billions if the world end up destroyed so it's safe to assume he meant the Universe and not earth.Where do I start? "The power inside you" likely refers to the Speed Force. He's talking about Flash being powerful in a way he doesn't understand and know yet, this is pure potential, not standard. He also refers to the way he defies physics, so in context this infinite and incalculable power would have nothing to do with High 3-A as even moving at lightspeed yields infinite energy, and do something incalculable via ignoring physics can be anything. The fact that he doesn't know if Supes is above him shows uncertainty, not scaling.
- Mr Terrific, who was certain Wally had Infinite and Incalculable power, isn't certain he's more powerful than Superman, implying he considers Superman to also have Infinite Power (The Flash (Rebirth) #775, October 2021)
Of course but can you calculate the amount of energy CB used?Sure, but infinity doesn't need to be thought of exclusively in fractions. If you have infinite grains of sand and remove 10 of them, 10 is still a finite number. The fact is that you can pull finite amounts from infinity.
Has DC ever made a Higher dimensional realm that's smaller than universes? We've seen some comparable like New genesis and Apocalypse, Hell and heaven stated to be also.Realms in the sphere aren't necessarily greater than universes. The Sphere is a broad category of a variety of different unrelated realms, not all of these realms are the same in quality or in their relationship to the Orrery.
No, that's kind of the point. The feat is too vague.Of course but can you calculate the amount of energy CB used?
"Higher-dimensional" is a bit of a misdirection here and doesn't apply blanket to the realms in the Sphere. Has DC ever made a realm outside universes that's smaller than a universe? Presumably. Most of the time the size of realms simply isn't stated, but in scope there are many realms that are smaller than a universe. We don't just assume that everything in the Sphere is multiversal by default.Has DC ever made a Higher dimensional realm that's smaller than universes?
In physics the mass of an object becomes infinite when at lightspeed, same thing here at accelerating towards lightspeed his mass also approaches infinity, so at lightspeed it's infinite.I have rejected that scan in the past, Flash's body mass incresing towards infinity doesn't mean he has infinite mass as in High 3-A, but that he has an ever-incresing mass the more he reaches lightspeed, with no limit to it. He didn't reach infinity as in High 3-A, the scan doesn't say that. The rules for this are variable anyway, a Speedster going at lightspeed can also make them have enough mass to destroy themselves uncontrollably as they become a singularity (See here the last feat in AP and Note 2)
I was told in this thread Universes are accepted as infinite.Power with relation of the universe=/=High 3-A. This is completely unpresentable and it shows a massive lack of standards, it's wrong, not
- Dreggs have the power of a Universe(New Gods Vol. 3 #26, May 1991)
Can I see scans of this, for future purposes.This is following DC's rules on paradoxes and contradictions in a timeline that on their own damage a timeline, not AP.
Strongly agreed.Let's get back on topic, please.
Agreed, I was skeptical on it to just didn't understand it thoroughly well so didn't respond.No, that's kind of the point. The feat is too vague.
So not all Realms in the Sphere of gods are Higher dimensional? Care to clarify or give examples."Higher-dimensional" is a bit of a misdirection here and doesn't apply blanket to the realms in the Sphere. Has DC ever made a realm outside universes that's smaller than a universe? Presumably. Most of the time the size of realms simply isn't stated, but in scope there are many realms that are smaller than a universe. We don't just assume that everything in the Sphere is multiversal by default.
The current notion on the wiki is that many of the realms are non-physical, which means they don't have dimensions at all. In that sense notions like "size" don't actually apply to them. But a spiritual realm isn't necessarily greater than a physical one.So not all Realms in the Sphere of gods are Highet dimensional?
But we know the Realm of phantom zone/Underworld is actually a Dimension, also once called a Dimensionless Dimension/a Dimension without Dimensions. DC has given some of this realm size and compared them to others.The current notion on the wiki is that many of the realms are non-physical, which means they don't have dimensions at all. In that sense notions like "size" don't actually apply to them. But a spiritual realm isn't necessarily greater than a physical one.
I thought destruction of a Universe and recreating it also is Low 2-C since you are destroying and recreating time as well.Remake and destroy the universe isn't objectively Low 2-C, it can easily be 3-A, less even.
Low 2-C: Universe level+Furthermore, "shattered the boundaries of Space-Time and changed timelines" isn't Low 2-C, it would be 3-A for destroying the universe, which they didn't do nor could do at once, the over time thing they did do was to f*ck up the planet.
Agreed, it’s a dick move and we don’t need that in such a massive discussionWow, perhaps we shouldn't go for unprovoked insults?
He already apologised, let's move on please.Agreed, it’s a dick move and we don’t need that in such a massive discussion
Like it’s hax regardless but it’s defo not just 4-BRegarding the space and time feat...
How do you explain them hitting each other so hard they're seeing events from the others life not shattering the boundaries of space and time, given the context?
Like, I haven't seen anyone try to brush it off as weird space-time hax. It's legitimate AP, this is all from them hitting one another.
Superman did admit he was afraid to fight Manhunter, so, that should be worth something.Universe level+, possibly Low Multiverse level. Scales above Diana and can be argued to be on Supes and peak Lantern's level, but also has a lot of scaling for being below. Has the Darkseid fight in DC One Million as well.
Fair. Carry on.Guys, scaling comes after the feats are discussed.
I wouldn't even say it's hax, they're hitting each other so hard that time and space is distorting around them lmfao, they're seeing the others lives whenever they connect, as shown in the image.Like it’s hax regardless but it’s defo not just 4-B
From the current staff tally, do you have any more specific agrees/disagrees/questions you would like to add?Guys, scaling comes after the feats are discussed.
You can put me down as agreeing with with Tier 2, minus the Kyle Rayner/Anarky and Starheart stuff.From the current staff tally, do you have any more specific agrees/disagrees/questions you would like to add?
Gigachad, agreeing with Tier 2.You can put me down as agreeing with with Tier 2, minus the Kyle Rayner/Anarky and Starheart stuff.
You can put me down as agreeing with with Tier 2, minus the Kyle Rayner/Anarky and Starheart stuff.
I will reply to the rest of the comment after I evaluate the feats and put into question what is it that people's agreeing up, but I can't help to wonder, why agree to anything yet? Wouldn't it be more logical to wait and see whatever more issues are found here first? What if I hypothetically stop evaluating the thread right here, are others' evaluations already given comfortable? Any staff can tell me if there is an angle here I'm not seeing, but this seems to be having no issues working off conjectures, i.e. something bad.Gigachad, agreeing with Tier 2.
In fairness, we don't assume Energy Capacity = Energy Output. If we did, the DBZ Infinite Energy Androids would have been Tier 3 in their debut saga.Though I'm not also convinced but I'd remind you half of infinity is still infinity, he dosen't need to empty his power source for 1 attack if it's infinite plus that goes against the infinite energy also if it can go empty, CB said he can take control of the energy and use it how he likes.
I'm also iffy on this.
In fairness, we don't assume Energy Capacity = Energy Output. If we did, the DBZ Infinite Energy Androids would have been Tier 3 in their debut saga.
Isn't the Zero Hour Big Bang actually 2-C, considering it not only recreated the New Earth Universe but also created the Post Zero Hour Universe (Earth-247)?Note that this is portrayed as something that would have killed everyone there, even characters argued for the ugrade here.
- Kyle Rayner survives being blasted by the Zero Hour Big Bang (Zero Hour: Crisis in Time #0, September 1994)
We saw them being dragged into Spectre's cape but ok, I'm gonna see the next issue to see how they portray this; (Zero Hour: Crisis in Time has its issues in reverse, so that's the last issue.) First page of their next appearance; They were both fighting in the tunnel of weird right before the Big Bang happened, Kyle not knowing how they even ended up there, so that already f*cks up the feat. Second page; "We were outside of time when the universe was being recreated", they were outside of reality & the tunnel of weird was to reenter reality. This feat's pretty abysmally wrong, solid anti-feat that they would all die from the Big Bang though.
I will go over the rest ""soon"".
The scan shows he is near it.See the Big Bang page, the Big Bang is 3-A unless stated otherwise and shielding from it not from the center isn't Universe level durability.
- Ganthet creates a construct to shield himself from the Big Bang (Green Lantern: Ganthet's Tale, November 1992)
The zone was the size of the small town and in addition they only defeated the villain because his own powers worked against him.Even that wrong portrayal of the feat the OP gives is meaningless