DC Comics - The Legendary DC Heralds Upgrade

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out, Eficiente.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

• Wonder Woman withstands and deflects a fireball with infinite power. (Wonder Woman Vol. 2 #21, October 1988)

I could tell from those scans that the feat was taken out of context and read the comic. The gods live on Mount Olympus and need to move on from there, doing so is a classic comicbook cosmic event that follows its own made up rules; They need to destroy Olympus first, so they harness "the greatest power in all Olympus", prayers from the only people that believe on them, put it along "the amassed strength of the entire pantheon (of gods)" and use all that to shoot the fireball at Diana, whose pointed out to be helped by the protective power of her bracelets, that they were part of Zeus' mightly aegis itself, that the impenetrable shield formed from the hide of the great goat Amaltheia, who wet-nursed the infant Zeus & this provided the energy from which Olympus sprung, that it has the power of the aegis, that Amaltheia's power formed the corner stone of Olympus and her power will destroy it. Diana will charge a cosmic force, the accumulated energies of the gods intensified by Amazon prayer, and deflect it with her bracelets, the "fireball" will receive Amaltheaia's kiss (touch the bracelets) and be transformed into a burst more awesome than before. (Note!: Amalthea is the foster-motehr of Zeus, "Aegis" is a device carried by Athena and Zeus, the modern concept of doing something "under someone's aegis" means doing something under the protection of a powerful, knowledgeable, or benevolent source. One of its meanings is "The shield of a deity", which is pretty objectively its use here)

So,

• The "fireball" has the accumulated power of all the gods in that comic (all of them minus Ares) intensified by prayers, which itself is a greater power than any one god that lives in Olympus. Note that even 1 god is more powerful than WW.
• WW did this solely due to their bracelets, her bracelets scale, not her at all. Even then she was pretty overwhelmed by doing this.
  • WW has the ability to amp cosmic/godly energies deflected by her bracelets, so very situational Stats Amp for her.
• Whoever submitted this feat sounds like such a fraud. To anyone with less experience in Vs Debates I say this in terms of results shown, not intentionality, never intentionality, nobody is ever doing to "do things wrong on purpose" in their own word, let alone admit it. At worst they do things wrong while lacking the care to improve upon the flaws that led to that, so they consistency keep on doing things wrong in the future, and if an OP thing they propose fails then it doesn't matter the reasoning behind why it's wrong so much as the fact that it was rejected currently, some other OP thing may be proposed tomorrow, it's fun. I say this in the hopes that it may positively help should anything close to this be recognized by anyone, as this worst case scenario is to be avoided or grow out of, but if you don't personally believe it applies then great for you, but that's that.

I have rejected that scan in the past, Flash's body mass incresing towards infinity doesn't mean he has infinite mass as in High 3-A, but that he has an ever-incresing mass the more he reaches lightspeed, with no limit to it. He didn't reach infinity as in High 3-A, the scan doesn't say that. The rules for this are variable anyway, a Speedster going at lightspeed can also make them have enough mass to destroy themselves uncontrollably as they become a singularity (See here the last feat in AP and Note 2)

• Dreggs have the power of a Universe(New Gods Vol. 3 #26, May 1991)

Power with relation of the universe=/=High 3-A. This is completely unpresentable and it shows a massive lack of standards, it's wrong, not .

• Superman, Captain Atom, Darkstar and the Ray contribute to the energy of a Big Bang. (Zero Hour: Crisis in Time #0, September 1994)

This is such anti-feat for Low 2-C. If any one of them was Low 2-C, one quick attack would do it, yet they have have to continually shoot for a long time, not only is this something they can't do alone, but even if it was 1 character doing this the fact that it's over some time means their every regular blow would be lower than this & thus wouldn't scale. There is a small, actually dumb logic tangle to this; "Low 2-C divided is still Low 2-C, so the fractions of it shown don't matter", right? Wrong, it's wanting to have your cake and eat it, under that own (correct) logic the fact that 1 character alone couldn't do it means 1 alone isn't Low 2-C, as they should be as that stat can't be divided, making it mean that their combined attacks being channeled by someone that controls energy has it greater than the individual sum of its parts, because again, 1 Low 2-C attack alone would do it otherwise. Same with the time it took them to charge this, if their every punch, kick, energy blast, etc. at their peak was Low 2-C then 1 quick blast would do it, as since it has to be continuous for some time that means what can be acquired doing that is greater than their every punch, kick, energy blast, etc. at their peak. "Low 2-C can't be divided" is used as a tool, what serves of it is used, and what contradicts things is literally inconceivable, that is being disingenuous.

The Spectre is the one that fills what they were accumulating into what turned into a new universe anyway, I don't think I need to say what this means.

• Infinite-Man's power can sculpt space-time, could destroy the Universe, including the timestream (Legionnaires Vol. 1 #18, September 1994), and has the energies of space and time (Superboy and the Legion of Super-Heroes Vol. 1 #233, November 1977)

Sculpt space-time are abilities, I know it's there "for context", but it shouldn't, as no profile's AP would say that. Similar with having "the energies of space and time".

I went to see the comic for context, after all "We thought we could find answers about our past in the past-- --and gave no thought to how badly the timescream was damaged before we took a deep plunse!" clearly implies the timescream was damaged beforehand and that what they do is otherwise inoffensive thing that's only causing issues due to that damage the timescream already had, and what I found was laughable. Legit the first scan; "The thirtieth century is crumbling. Each new second brings with another paradox... Each heartbeat, another contradiction in chronal continuity. Heroes thought long dead reappear without warning...while champions cherished as vital and alive vanish just as suddenly... ...and with each such entrance and exist the temporal fabric that knits the universe frays chllingly further." The timescream was already pretty f*cked up, Infinite-Man's power was a push further that would destroy it. This is following DC's rules on paradoxes and contradictions in a timeline that on their own damage a timeline, not AP.

That same first scan also says that Infinite-Man's power "might have contained the carnage", which means he might have been able to fix the paradoxes and contradictions talked about in that page, which is unqualifiable as they don't destroy the timeline or universe on its own, it's those 2 villains further f*cking things up that would cause that, and it's Space-Time hax anyway that fixes some things here and there that aren't meant to be a certain way (People being in points in time where they're not meant to, use Space-Time hax to fix that is pretty worthless).

I'll go over the rest soon.

Whoever submitted this feat sounds like such a fraud.

Wow, perhaps we shouldn't go for unprovoked insults?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Jeez Efi, maybe take a large glass of chill because good god

 

[Firestorm808]

@Eficiente

I understand your sentiment, but let's refrain from editorializing any further.

 

[Antvasima]

Wow, perhaps we shouldn't go for unprovoked insults?

Yes, that was an inappropriate comment. Please make an effort to be polite, Eficiente.

 

[Starbrand_Fan]

Whoever submitted this feat sounds like such a fraud.

…well that was uncalled for.

 

[Firestorm808]

Let's get back on topic, please.

 

[Vasco]

• Mr Terrific, who was certain Wally had Infinite and Incalculable power, isn't certain he's more powerful than Superman, implying he considers Superman to also have Infinite Power (The Flash (Rebirth) #775, October 2021)

Where do I start? "The power inside you" likely refers to the Speed Force. He's talking about Flash being powerful in a way he doesn't understand and know yet, this is pure potential, not standard. He also refers to the way he defies physics, so in context this infinite and incalculable power would have nothing to do with High 3-A as even moving at lightspeed yields infinite energy, and do something incalculable via ignoring physics can be anything. The fact that he doesn't know if Supes is above him shows uncertainty, not scaling.

We know wally is powerful enough even wally himself should know how powerful he is already and MT was talking based on potential and standard, besides it's already established the speed force contains infinite energy plus wally few issues before the book had a new special connection to the Speed Force called the "surge" iirc, and stomped a full speed force amped savitar by having his own special raw connection to it(same Savitar can cause an environmental destruction that can destroy the Omniverse). Of course moving at lightspeed grants infinite mass but MT wasn't talking about that but Power, and made it clear Wally can destroy the world then mention countless lives, he didn't say billions if the world end up destroyed so it's safe to assume he meant the Universe and not earth.

MT:it's not that you're just fast (Clearly isn't talking about just speed here)then later said the power in him is incalculable, infinite. By the way the statement is from MT not just anyone, he obviously won't know who is stronger between both especially since Superman always holds back and wally has been doing crazy things for a while that's why he said maybe more powerful than Superman.
This shows both are comparable with wally possibly being ahead in power.

Also Read flash Annual MT is very knowledgeable on the speed force perhaps on their level or greater.

 

[Vasco]

Sure, but infinity doesn't need to be thought of exclusively in fractions. If you have infinite grains of sand and remove 10 of them, 10 is still a finite number. The fact is that you can pull finite amounts from infinity.

Of course but can you calculate the amount of energy CB used?

Realms in the sphere aren't necessarily greater than universes. The Sphere is a broad category of a variety of different unrelated realms, not all of these realms are the same in quality or in their relationship to the Orrery.

Has DC ever made a Higher dimensional realm that's smaller than universes? We've seen some comparable like New genesis and Apocalypse, Hell and heaven stated to be also.
Besides if this realms are potentially bigger than universes it's safe to assume to same for phantom zone but I'd check more on it.

 

[Deagonx]

Of course but can you calculate the amount of energy CB used?

No, that's kind of the point. The feat is too vague.

Has DC ever made a Higher dimensional realm that's smaller than universes?

"Higher-dimensional" is a bit of a misdirection here and doesn't apply blanket to the realms in the Sphere. Has DC ever made a realm outside universes that's smaller than a universe? Presumably. Most of the time the size of realms simply isn't stated, but in scope there are many realms that are smaller than a universe. We don't just assume that everything in the Sphere is multiversal by default.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

Could this work? This scan might be a little too flowery but still better than nothing

 

[Antvasima]

"Seems to explode" is definitely flowery hyperbole language.

 

[Vasco]

I have rejected that scan in the past, Flash's body mass incresing towards infinity doesn't mean he has infinite mass as in High 3-A, but that he has an ever-incresing mass the more he reaches lightspeed, with no limit to it. He didn't reach infinity as in High 3-A, the scan doesn't say that. The rules for this are variable anyway, a Speedster going at lightspeed can also make them have enough mass to destroy themselves uncontrollably as they become a singularity (See here the last feat in AP and Note 2)

In physics the mass of an object becomes infinite when at lightspeed, same thing here at accelerating towards lightspeed his mass also approaches infinity, so at lightspeed it's infinite.

• Dreggs have the power of a Universe(New Gods Vol. 3 #26, May 1991)

Power with relation of the universe=/=High 3-A. This is completely unpresentable and it shows a massive lack of standards, it's wrong, not

I was told in this thread Universes are accepted as infinite.

This is following DC's rules on paradoxes and contradictions in a timeline that on their own damage a timeline, not AP.

Can I see scans of this, for future purposes.

 

[Antvasima]

Let's get back on topic, please.

Strongly agreed.

 

[Vasco]

No, that's kind of the point. The feat is too vague.

Agreed, I was skeptical on it to just didn't understand it thoroughly well so didn't respond.
Still wiki has a "possibly" for things like things.

"Higher-dimensional" is a bit of a misdirection here and doesn't apply blanket to the realms in the Sphere. Has DC ever made a realm outside universes that's smaller than a universe? Presumably. Most of the time the size of realms simply isn't stated, but in scope there are many realms that are smaller than a universe. We don't just assume that everything in the Sphere is multiversal by default.

So not all Realms in the Sphere of gods are Higher dimensional? Care to clarify or give examples.
A realm outside the Orrery? You say presumably but i'm talking from the level of sphere of gods.
Yeah the realm size aren't stated but we get ideas compared to other realms they interact with or statements of comparison with them.
Care to give me names of the realms in the godsphere smaller than universes?

I assume that way since some are shown to be and others comparable to them.
Anyways I'd soon start checking on Phantom Zone/Underworld.

 

[Deagonx]

So not all Realms in the Sphere of gods are Highet dimensional?

The current notion on the wiki is that many of the realms are non-physical, which means they don't have dimensions at all. In that sense notions like "size" don't actually apply to them. But a spiritual realm isn't necessarily greater than a physical one.

 

[Eficiente]

Yes, in retrospect that was uncalled for for my part, sorry. That said, I'm all in for talking about the topic in private if whoever felt bad about it feels like it, I can elaborate a bit about what I said and I would find constructive to know what was the process of getting the feat was and what personal reaction there is to my reply to it beyond the inappropriate part. I feel like there are things there worth getting digged through, and that only focusing on the part that was bad from my part leads to no growth, the latter being reasonable behavior to be predicted as a possibility.

• Superman survives Aztek's self destruction of 4th Dimensional energy(JLA Vol. 1 #41, May 2000)
  • Aztek's energy had previously been described as Limitless 4th Dimensional energy (JLA Vol 1 #10 September, 1997)

First of all it says "you have limitless 4-Dimensional energy at your disposal", it might very easily be a pool from where to draw from indefinitely. On top of that, if he were to simply blow up with limitless 4-Dimensional energy he would have destroyed the universe. We know for a fact the explosion had the purpose to hack the planetoid-sized machine villain, it's likely that the explosion was to have the energy reach all his body rather than it being a simple explosion, and every part of the blast being designed to stop that villain means that there was control put into it, which makes too unlikely that it would have harmed Supes like that, as they're allies.

• Superman survives the collapse of the universe. (Superman: Where Is Thy Sting, 2001)
  • Death implies that WITS really happened. (Superman: Where Is Thy Sting, 2001)
  • Lois references WITS in Rebirth. (Action Comics Vol. 1 #1030, June 2021)

This thing again. The fact that it's a dream has a minor logic tangle to it that's super dumb. The fact that Death and Lois know it happened is worthless because you're portraying that as if it was binary; as if either A) it happened or B) it was a dream & didn't happen. It is a dream and it did happen at the same time, and the disingenuous way this was portrayed completely neglects the rules for the dream established in the story that make all the feats there inapplicable. On its own, w/o further context for the story, this being a dream can easily mean that one can do things more freely there, just because it's dream. Death isn't the concept of Death, but Supes' own death / a delusion / manifestation of things Supes was feeling, which can easily mean it was using its powers in a way that can allows Supes to do all that he does, and that Death wins only by making Supes feel worst. Death says that in defeating it, Super was defeating psychological demon in his mind, which can easily mean that doing the latter (defeating poetic psychological demons) leads to the former (defeating Death), so this again supports how Supes wins by overcoming the way he was feeling about certain things. Death asks to consider that there might be a place where mind and matter intersect; where that which hides in your dreams takes form, implying that is the place where they were before. Dreams & mind-based things becoming real at random is pretty clear on how this had no solid rules, and that nothing from this comic should scale in reality. It really is as simple as "it's just a dream", this is just the long version. The feat's not even Low 2-C, what was destroyed has no reason to be the timeline rather than the universe and Supes even drifts through time right after it, and we had no context of the specifics of the feat like how the universe was destroyed, it might have easily been in a way that 1 human-sized body taking it is not taking the full tier of the event, like the black hole being too big, or if the black hole even caused the end of the universe and it wasn't Death instead.

• Superman fights and takes hits from the Entropy Aegis while explicitly stated to be holding back. (Superman: The Man of Steel #134, March 2003). The Entropy Aegis is stated to be the power to remake and destroy the universe. (Superman Versus Darkseid: Apokolips Now, March 2003)

Remake and destroy the universe isn't objectively Low 2-C, it can easily be 3-A, less even.

Didn't read the story, but those wailings called my attention to check just how much does it take me to find that he's in variable control of his action or in great pain. And it was the former as soon as he shows up. John Henry is constantly trying to regain control while his Imperiax part does the same, hence he screams things like "I AM the POWER!" and "...I AM IMPERIEX REBORN!", he's kinda gaslighting himself to make things easier. This again is very disingenuous as this key fact isn't pointed out while Supes do holding back is. The thing about scaling is that 2 characters going all out against each other is a standard assumption if it isn't stated or implied and nothing else contradicts that idea. Here the idea is contradicted, so no scaling. It should be that easy.

• Superman overpowers Nebula Man, who is stated to be a universe. (JLA Classified #2, March 2005)
  • Nebula Man is confirmed to be a universe. (Seven Soldiers: Frankenstein #4, May 2006)

Omnipresence in a smaller body to the thing you're Omnipresent over=/=Equal AP, Durability & weight to the whole thing you're Omnipresent over, logically. Even then, it would be 3-A.

• Superman's clash with his Golden Age counterpart shattered the boundaries of Space-Time and changed timelines (Superman Vol. 2 #226, April 2006, Action Comics Vol. 1 #836, April 2006, Adventures of Superman Vol. 1 #649, April 2006)

I remember someone saying how this feat was invalid, I can see my own reasons but I'm gonna look that up first.

• "The issue is that this takes place during Infinite Crisis, when the Multiverse was unstable due to tons of reality shenanigans."
  • Is anyone aware of this able to link sources to back this up?
  • There were piss poor defenses for this like "If I destroy a wall around a kingdom, me busting the kingdom doesn’t suddenly become illegitimate", which is stupid as that's an example made when the whole thing being destroyed doesn't matter to the unstable smaller thing, yet you can make examples where parts of something being unstable means destroying all of it becomes far easier. You can make an infinite amount of examples of cases where destroying the whole thing is easier or isn't easier, it's worthless as you can't assume how much unstable the universe already was, you simply know that it is and work with that, which makes things inapplicable. And this is just from the vague knowledge that "the Multiverse was unstable", if we actually put some small care to look up all the scans that establish that, by how much it's unstable & its rules, we would obviously have a better idea of the matter.
• "The entire event starts because Alex, GA Superman, and Superboy Prime watched the current incarnation of the Justice League continually fail at protecting the world whilst slowly becoming grittier, more horribly people, much like how comic fans at the time were complaining about the darker tone, so they try to reclaim and fix the world. This fight is symbolic of their different ideologies coming to head, they metaphorically believe the other is destroying the world while Alex is literally destroying the world. It's not a feat for Superman, it's a story telling device." - The Wright Way

Then I read the comics around this and have this to say (Spoilers the feat's wrong):

• The images are in random order.
• The "space shattering" effect used in the fight is used when Supes punches a regular human being too ("Minor")
• All of this happens due to conceptual things; the ways the character should have acted being wrong in the eyes of the other character, rather than physical strength. For example Supes thinks Supes killed Lois by the way he handled his Earth, even though he saw her die of natural causes/for no reason right in front of him. It's not AP, and yes, it's at the same time dictated by their fight, such as punches. It's not binary, ok?
• At one point when the Supermans are beating each other they do so while changing forms as suits/forms Superman have had over the years, throwing out of the question the state in which they are being standard.
• It turns out that Alex was messing up the multiverse all along, which he was hiding from Superman. To achieve his multiverse-related goal Alex says that Superman is the key and that everything comes from him, he messes him up along many versions of him across the multiverse, similar to how the 2 Supes were changing forms before. Alex's actions are messing up alt. Earths/universes.
• Edit!: Right after the battle was over Earth-Two Supes explains that the multiverse is unstable, that the Earths will become weaker and weaker as they're divided (Their current state), and if they aren't brought ack together soon the entire universe will explode in a new big bang & everything will be destroyed. He just knew this after being calmed down, at first both Sups blamed each other for the chaos because they didn't know any better, but they were wrong, the Earths were divided (visible from the sky) from before the battle started, and that is a state that, on its own, messes up the universe badly & will destroy it. Superman having a vague conceptual thing going on over this related to how writers do things in comics is not something that matters to his AP at all.
• Furthermore, "shattered the boundaries of Space-Time and changed timelines" isn't Low 2-C, it would be 3-A for destroying the universe, which they didn't do nor could do at once, the over time thing they did do was to f*ck up the planet.

I will go over the rest "soon".

 

[Vasco]

The current notion on the wiki is that many of the realms are non-physical, which means they don't have dimensions at all. In that sense notions like "size" don't actually apply to them. But a spiritual realm isn't necessarily greater than a physical one.

But we know the Realm of phantom zone/Underworld is actually a Dimension, also once called a Dimensionless Dimension/a Dimension without Dimensions. DC has given some of this realm size and compared them to others.
E.g Heaven we've gotten statement of how each soul has it's universe and something like that and hell also which the presence said he didn't create more like hell is how people picture it to be and blah,blah and both are reflection of each.
Same with New genesis and Apokolips which can also be merged as one.

So yeah despite the realm of godsphere being metaphysical some realms in it aren't and have size with New genesis alone being bigger than universes and the Map of the multiverse showed all these realms equal in it.

 

[Vasco]

Remake and destroy the universe isn't objectively Low 2-C, it can easily be 3-A, less even.

I thought destruction of a Universe and recreating it also is Low 2-C since you are destroying and recreating time as well.

Furthermore, "shattered the boundaries of Space-Time and changed timelines" isn't Low 2-C, it would be 3-A for destroying the universe, which they didn't do nor could do at once, the over time thing they did do was to f*ck up the planet.

Low 2-C: Universe level+

Characters or objects that are capable of significantly affecting[1], creating and/or destroying an area of space that is qualitatively larger than an infinitely-sized 3-dimensional space. Common fictional examples of spaces representing such sizes are space-time continuums (the entire past, present and future of 3-dimensional space) of a universal scale. However, it can be more generally fulfilled by any 4-dimensional space that is either:

They shattered the boundaries of space-time and changed timelines.
●Easily Low 2-C.

Edit: Affecting timelines is infact 2-C.

 

[Hellbeast]

Wow, perhaps we shouldn't go for unprovoked insults?

Agreed, it’s a dick move and we don’t need that in such a massive discussion

 

[Vasco]

Agreed, it’s a dick move and we don’t need that in such a massive discussion

He already apologised, let's move on please.

 

[PapiSavitar5025]

Regarding the space and time feat...

How do you explain them hitting each other so hard they're seeing events from the others life not shattering the boundaries of space and time, given the context?

Like, I haven't seen anyone try to brush it off as weird space-time hax. It's legitimate AP, this is all from them hitting one another.

Even if the universe was destabilized, how can you assume it's to the point where 4-B characters can affect it?

 

[Antvasima]

Eficiente makes sense to me above.

Also, thank you for apologising.

 

[Hellbeast]

Regarding the space and time feat...

How do you explain them hitting each other so hard they're seeing events from the others life not shattering the boundaries of space and time, given the context?

Like, I haven't seen anyone try to brush it off as weird space-time hax. It's legitimate AP, this is all from them hitting one another.

Like it’s hax regardless but it’s defo not just 4-B

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Universe level+, possibly Low Multiverse level. Scales above Diana and can be argued to be on Supes and peak Lantern's level, but also has a lot of scaling for being below. Has the Darkseid fight in DC One Million as well.

Superman did admit he was afraid to fight Manhunter, so, that should be worth something.

 

[Hellbeast]

Maybe something like “Relative to Superman with the latter fearing his power, superior to the likes of Wonder Woman and battled Darkseid)

 

[LordTracer]

Guys, scaling comes after the feats are discussed.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Guys, scaling comes after the feats are discussed.

Fair. Carry on.

 

[PapiSavitar5025]

Like it’s hax regardless but it’s defo not just 4-B

I wouldn't even say it's hax, they're hitting each other so hard that time and space is distorting around them lmfao, they're seeing the others lives whenever they connect, as shown in the image.

It's just brute force, I don't get where all of these assumptions are coming from.

 

[Firestorm808]

Guys, scaling comes after the feats are discussed.

From the current staff tally, do you have any more specific agrees/disagrees/questions you would like to add?

https://vsbattles.com/threads/dc-comics-the-legendary-dc-heralds-upgrade.147343/post-5379794

 

[LordTracer]

From the current staff tally, do you have any more specific agrees/disagrees/questions you would like to add?

https://vsbattles.com/threads/dc-comics-the-legendary-dc-heralds-upgrade.147343/post-5379794

You can put me down as agreeing with with Tier 2, minus the Kyle Rayner/Anarky and Starheart stuff.

 

[PapiSavitar5025]

You can put me down as agreeing with with Tier 2, minus the Kyle Rayner/Anarky and Starheart stuff.

Gigachad, agreeing with Tier 2.

 

[Eficiente]

You can put me down as agreeing with with Tier 2, minus the Kyle Rayner/Anarky and Starheart stuff.

Gigachad, agreeing with Tier 2.

I will reply to the rest of the comment after I evaluate the feats and put into question what is it that people's agreeing up, but I can't help to wonder, why agree to anything yet? Wouldn't it be more logical to wait and see whatever more issues are found here first? What if I hypothetically stop evaluating the thread right here, are others' evaluations already given comfortable? Any staff can tell me if there is an angle here I'm not seeing, but this seems to be having no issues working off conjectures, i.e. something bad.

• The GLC Central Battery can become as large as and destroy the entire Universe(Green Lantern Corps Vol. 1 #224, May 1988)
  • Hal Jordan has survived attacks from Sinestro possessing the Central Battery (Green Lantern Corps Vol. 1 #224, May 1988)
  • Superman survived attacks from and matches Molly (Justice League Vol. 4 #19, May 2019) with the power of the Central Battery and other sources (Justice League Vol. 4 #17, April 2019)

Many things wrong here, this too is very disingenuous. The GLC Central Battery can do that, but it's not that simple, you portray it as if its average attack was that strong, when it's not. It first needs to siphon all GL energy back to itself, this alone meaning that it can't do the feat w/o doing that yet. After that it will overload, have a power builtup & destroy itself, meaning that the feat's more than it can handle, hence it happens after an overload (It having more power than it can load), a power builtup (leads to the latter), and it destroys itself doing the feat (Your regular punches, kicks, blasts, etc. don't scale to some feat where you self-destruct).

Even then, being amped by a power source =/= having a Tier=to that power source, obligatory. Otherwise one attack alone would cause the thing to be drained into having 0 power, it needs to be proven that their stats are the same.

Hal Jordan got stomped by Sinestro with those powers, who considered himself godlike despite already scaling to Hal's level in base. Sinestro was enjoying attacking Hal immensely, so you have 3 solid reasons to dismiss that feat, that being before Hal got healed & a powerup to match Sinestro on that level.

Those scans don't show that Molly has all that, just that something has it, and it doesn't show that they have the full power of those things, just access to it. All that power is also spreading through time, so there is no reason for the full sum of it to be in the present where she's using it.

• Ganthet creates a construct to shield himself from the Big Bang (Green Lantern: Ganthet's Tale, November 1992)

See the Big Bang page, the Big Bang is 3-A unless stated otherwise and shielding from it not from the center isn't Universe level durability.

• Kyle Rayner survives being blasted by the Zero Hour Big Bang (Zero Hour: Crisis in Time #0, September 1994)

Note that this is portrayed as something that would have killed everyone there, even characters argued for the ugrade here.

We saw them being dragged into Spectre's cape but ok, I'm gonna see the next issue to see how they portray this; (Zero Hour: Crisis in Time has its issues in reverse, so that's the last issue.) First page of their next appearance; They were both fighting in the tunnel of weird right before the Big Bang happened, Kyle not knowing how they even ended up there, so that already f*cks up the feat. Second page; "We were outside of time when the universe was being recreated", they were outside of reality & the tunnel of weird was to reenter reality. This feat's pretty abysmally wrong, solid anti-feat that they would all die from the Big Bang though.

I will go over the rest ""soon"".

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Well seems like most of the Low 2-C feats were actually High 3-A

 

[Firestorm808]

Though I'm not also convinced but I'd remind you half of infinity is still infinity, he dosen't need to empty his power source for 1 attack if it's infinite plus that goes against the infinite energy also if it can go empty, CB said he can take control of the energy and use it how he likes.
I'm also iffy on this.

In fairness, we don't assume Energy Capacity = Energy Output. If we did, the DBZ Infinite Energy Androids would have been Tier 3 in their debut saga.

 

[Hellbeast]

In fairness, we don't assume Energy Capacity = Energy Output. If we did, the DBZ Infinite Energy Androids would have been Tier 3 in their debut saga.

Based tbh

 

[TimeTrapperFanBoy]

• Kyle Rayner survives being blasted by the Zero Hour Big Bang (Zero Hour: Crisis in Time #0, September 1994)

Note that this is portrayed as something that would have killed everyone there, even characters argued for the ugrade here.

We saw them being dragged into Spectre's cape but ok, I'm gonna see the next issue to see how they portray this; (Zero Hour: Crisis in Time has its issues in reverse, so that's the last issue.) First page of their next appearance; They were both fighting in the tunnel of weird right before the Big Bang happened, Kyle not knowing how they even ended up there, so that already f*cks up the feat. Second page; "We were outside of time when the universe was being recreated", they were outside of reality & the tunnel of weird was to reenter reality. This feat's pretty abysmally wrong, solid anti-feat that they would all die from the Big Bang though.

I will go over the rest ""soon"".

Isn't the Zero Hour Big Bang actually 2-C, considering it not only recreated the New Earth Universe but also created the Post Zero Hour Universe (Earth-247)?

 

[Eficiente]

• Guardians and Controllers have Big Bang level power(Justice League: A Midsummer's Nightmare Vol. 1 #3, November 1996)
  • As mentioned before, human Lanterns have fought Guardians when they were amped. They also fought and overpowered the Controllers before being mind controlled (Hal Jordan and the Green Lantern Corps Vol. 1 #36, March 2018). Hal also believes he could defeat someone who defeated the Guardians (Hal Jordan and the Green Lantern Corps Vol. 1 #32, January 2018), with Guardians being compared in power to individual power batteries (Doomsday Annual, December 1995).

The portrayal is pretty off, it would be "Kyle Rayner said that the Guardians and Controllers have Big Bang level power", its most minor issue is that he might have exaggerated given the casual way he said it. More importantly, he refers to all of them as a faction (Read the page, please), each faction as a whole has "Big Bang level power", this can easily refer to their combined might. In the context of DC GLs have better feats with team work and crazy resources available to them like the GLC Central Battery and Oa. This is the power of the faction the guy they're facing is part of, it doesn't scale to 1 guy aone of that faction, and even if it did (which has no reason to), it would be in what their do; their gimmick/"anti-war tech", he didn't attack physically but had a forcefield that the JL could not destroy and crazy tech, playing along that he would scale, only the forcefield would be at that level.

Because of that, the first following scan where they get overpowered physically yet get stomped with their tech is ok.

Hal is clearly powered up when believing he could defeat someone who defeated the Guardians.

Guardians being "compared in power to individual power batteries" is a can of worms. It says that it "was like unto a living power battery", I don't think "unto" is used properly here, somebody correct if I'm wrong but it seems like nonsense. Is he so powerful he's like connected to a living power battery or is he the living power battery? Going with the latter, the lack of certainty really f*cks things up. Sinestro with the power of one was super amped & could do things like return attacks to Hal with 8 times his own power, 1 Guardian is helpless to stop the real power battery from overloading & blowing up and asks Hal for help, armies of GLs draw power from to be at Hal's level while the thing always has more to give, etc. Either the Guardians don't scale to the power battery or they do & nobody scales to them (that Guardian was attacking Doomsday with only the force of 12 hurricanes). By sheer common sense, it's pretty clear that they just don't scale to the power battery. "Solid" feat that they were compared to them, but it's an outlier. You want to be wrong disagree with that? Ok then, you need to also state that you take as an outlier every time a Guardian was shown below the power of a battery, thus by extension any list of those cases that could be made are all outliers by you.

• Kyle Rayner and Anarky reverse the warping of the universe. (Anarky Vol. 2 #3, July 1999)

Even that wrong portrayal of the feat the OP gives is meaningless, that has no Tier. It's also disingenuous to not point out how this is the sub-molecular world, which is even pointed out to be unlike the world of physical reality, so not the same rules apply there, and any control over it falls under Pocket Reality Manip, not regular AP.

• Ion could remake the Universe (Green Lantern Vol. 3 #145, February 2002)

True, but as the scans states, this is due to stealing power from a sh*t ton of sources, which are individually are Hal's level. If Ion's base is at Hal's level then it's an anti-feat that it needs all this to recreate the universe.

• The Guardians believed Kyle Rayner could kill Alan Scott possessed by the Starheart, (Justice League of America Vol. 2 #47, September 2010), and fought an Obsidian/Jade merge (Justice League of America Vol. 2 #48, October 2010), both the halves of the light and dark of the Starheart(Justice Society of America Vol. 3 #42, October 2010), while gradually losing power
  • The Starheart can obliterate reality (DC Comics Official Website)

Obliterate reality would be 3-A, not Low 2-C. The webside says that they want to to obliterate the good in all reality, which is pretty meaningless. Reading the comics myself it never tried anything like that, when fused it just tried to kill Kyle and his friends for spite, and the other villain was corrupting the people in planet Earth for "Conquest. Control.", so let's humor for a second the idea that the webside says that he wants to destroy reality, ok, no he didn't the story had 0 to with that, the webside made that up and by super basic standards it should be ignored. But it didn't say that, just some poetic sh*t about removing all the good, which is not incorrect to what we see in the story.

• Barry Allen and Godspeed survived attacks from an amped Paradox, who was destroying the timestream (The Flash Vol. 1 #756, August 2020)

The portrayal is misleading and wrong as usually, destroying the timestream was due to unleashing all the paradox energy, so 1) this is temporal energy created by alterations in the timeline, no sh*t it will destroy the timestream, this is not applicable AP to what the feat's doing. This is like unleashing virus energy to destroy a computer world. 2) This is a full realize of all the power, it wouldn't scale to regular attacks anyway.

Also Flash and Godspeed aren't really taking attacks, Paradox passively shoots that electricity and it tagged them, that has no reason to be a his same Tier.

Also also, wrong comic, the first scan is from The Flash (2016) issue 755 and the comic listed has nothing of the scans shown. I see people agree to parts of this thread w/o reading the comics themselves and at best going off what the linked scans show, I wouldn't allow that myself but I don't make the rules.

• Wonder Woman has defeated Circe, with Circe only going as far as to call Diana her equal(Wonder Woman Vol. 2 #176, January 2002)
  • Circe was consistently stated to be an urgent threat to the entire Universe (War of the Gods Vol. 1 #4, December 1991), with it later being stated she nearly destroyed the Universe (Wonder Woman Vol. 2 #62, February 1992)

If you read the "threat to the universe" scans you can clearly see that she's doing nothing that would one-shot it, they just say that it's gonna happen but there is no why or how of it, it would be stupid to just conclude that she can just one-shot the universe from that as nothing states so. Yes, of course the universe would be nearly destroyed by some event that could cause that if finished successfully, that tells us nothing. Worst of all this is a witch that operates through spells with different functions, if she caused all that mess extra care needs to be put to looking at the feat as it would easily be something that her average magic and attacks don't scale to.

I'm gonna read War of the Gods later for more context and continue my evaluation.

 

[Vasco]

• Ganthet creates a construct to shield himself from the Big Bang (Green Lantern: Ganthet's Tale, November 1992)

See the Big Bang page, the Big Bang is 3-A unless stated otherwise and shielding from it not from the center isn't Universe level durability.

The scan shows he is near it.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Even that wrong portrayal of the feat the OP gives is meaningless

The zone was the size of the small town and in addition they only defeated the villain because his own powers worked against him.

It's not a universal showing and more importantly it's not something they could replicate.