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I did not notice any explicit retcon punches there.
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DC Comics - The Legendary DC Heralds Upgrade
- Thread starter Emirp sumitpo
- Start date
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I did not notice any explicit retcon punches there.
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Well, I just don't want us to scale lots of characters to literally infinitely stronger statistics than they have at least somewhat consistently demonstrated based on very few highly unreliable feats and due to scaling to a character that has been all over the place power-vise, but I agree with what I think is your intended point here about finding balanced solutions.
Please feel free to contact me in private if you wish to fix the scaling for our Marvel Comics pages, so we can reach an agreement and I can back you up. You have usually been very sensible regarding figuring out solutions regarding how to do this in my experience.
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You can see his punches cracking reality like glass, that's how his retcon punch is since introduced.
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The first album not only shows multiple changes but Prime himself states that reality has been altered by some of his attacks.
Guacamolefletcher
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Nah they're literally the same
Guacamolefletcher
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That is definitely not correct...
Guacamolefletcher
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I think very obviously, so little of the feats presented for tier 5 and 4 are limiters, I don't see the problem with tier 3 or 2. It's kind of ridiculous
Guacamolefletcher
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clearly not correct? lmao. He is 5th realm imp, where the fifth realm is imagination and scales above a lot of stuff.
Guacamolefletcher
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Mxy was nerfed by magic
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Jesus christ dude. You do not need to post five separate comments in a row. Just respond to everyone in the same comment.
Second,
Second,
Several of them are limiters, explicitly so.
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nearly all of them were debunked as anti feats
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No, they weren't. Many of them were pretty clearly validated and only a couple had actual context which changed it.
Guacamolefletcher
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Why is this relevant to the topic, again?
I thought we were talking about the validity of these feats, not whether or not Superboy Prime is Outerversal.
I thought we were talking about the validity of these feats, not whether or not Superboy Prime is Outerversal.
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Let's get back on topic.
Scottycj256
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we're waiting on Emire to finish his counters to the debunks while Ant and Deagon and whoever the **** else keep derailing to discuss 1-A scaling that doesnt even matter because we're not upgrading Heralds to 1-A we're upgrading them to 2-C possibly 2-A
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We are not derailing. We have been attempting to explain the greater contexts regarding why these suggested upgrades are far too unreliable and inconsistent to ever be accepted in conjunction with why the feats themselves are too few and too unreliable for such massively drastic upgrades.
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"We" as in you?
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and degon
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As far as I see, the only topic of discussion is between scaling and feats that are already dismissed by the wiki. Superboy Prime already has solid universal justification; scaling to the Anti-Monitor, Ion, Mordru, Golden-Age Superman, the Flashes (who we scale to Universal at full power) and feats such as his Retcon Punches (done while nerfed on one occasion, I might add).
Is... Is Low 2-C not an absurdly gargantuan tier? With a few levels of infinity gapping Low Multi to Multi?
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I'd also like to note by the time of him ripping open Monarch's suit, Monarch noted he was losing the powerup and shrinking back down
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The Anti-Monitor was explicitly only portrayed as tier 3-C in that story.
What does the emotional entity version of Ion scale to specifically?
What does the post-Crisis incarnation of Mordru scale to?
He was also all over the place in terms of power level.
We consider that to be environmental destruction.
I do not think that they seem possible to properly quantify.
The point is that SBP was enormously powered-up at the time and very explicitly reached an upper limit of Low 2-C despite this, and that he was explicitly constantly all over the place in terms of characters that he could hurt and that could hurt him, and that who can fight who scaling is extremely unreliable for Marvel Comics and DC Comics in the first place. Do we really want to scale post-Crisis Cassie Sandsmark to The Darkest Knight for example?
What do you think, Deagonx?
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Well, SBP did evidently retain most of his extra power in order to rip Monarch's suit open right afterwards, but I think that the Low 2-C explosion drained most of it, knocked him out, and shrunk him down if I remember correctly.
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Yet an even weaker Anti Monitor was capable of throwing out High 3-A attacks.
Being stated to have infinite power and being able to create the Universe, also back-scaling from Prime himself.
2-C to 2-A.
I thought we already went through this discussion, and it ended with me convincing you that Golden Age Superman could be reliably scaled to 2-C.
Harming the Anti Monitor isn't environmental destruction.
He was affecting the universe, and time, with his AP. That sounds pretty quantifiable.
First off, why are you still bringing up the Darkest Knight? That was a one-time 1-A feat that the WIKI DOESN'T ACCEPT.
Secondly, SBP's amp was explicitly stated to have run out, and that he was starting to shrink down. Low 2-C is an infinite sized tier (or larger), is it not? Just because a 2-C attack knocked him out when he was amped, doesn't mean he isn't 2-C normally.
If Superman was knocked out by a TerraFoe attack while heavily amped, would we consider his regular KiloFoe rating invalid because he couldn't withstand a higher-end 4-B attack? No, we wouldn't.
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Weaker how? This version of the Anti-Monitor was explicitly severely damaged from a 3-C level attack.
Can you show me references please?
Based on what feats and scaling?
Not reliably. He really was all over the place as well.
We do not scale the Wally West Flash from it currently. I think that a revision headed by @Firestorm808 or possibly @Confluctor revised it as a massive outlier from his itherwise displayed power levels.
As far as I recall, the changes that he imposed via chain-reaction, such as resurrecting Jason Todd, were minor though.
We do not accept to scale from it, but it still happened, just like a character that was tier Low 2-C at his peak was regularly harmed by at best tier 5 character such as Cassie Sandsmark. Why should we selectively only scale him to the characters that you prefer to be included and not ignore them together with all of the other nonsense outliers?
No, it was stated that his reserves were beginning to run out due to Monarch pushing his limits, and then the Low 2-C explosion spent them almost completely.
That isn't how shared western superhero settings work, as you should know by now. Characters from wildly different tiers regularly fight each other more often than not, and upgrades that are technically astronomical are seldom treated as such in practical confrontations.
That seems to be an explicit power level feat, which our wiki considers far more reliable than who can fight who matchup results, but I may misunderstand your point here.
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We stopped scaling Wally to AM because it was apparently hax as opposed to AP. Which is really silly to me, but w/e
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But didn't we got the scaling back because Barry also could eff with AM in a recent thread? Or I'm tripping?
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that's rebirth barry and wally
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I have another potential uni+ feat. There is this guy named Stalker the Soulless, and in JSA All Stars #2 (1999) he was using his energy to power this weird energy beam, with it's engine being a literal mathematically fourth dimensional object.
Alan Scott and Star Man have been shown capable of redirecting said beam (they essentially BFR the beam but GL has to use actual physical energy to put the beam there) and the entire JSA was capable of fighting and wounding Stalker, even if he overpowers them
Alan Scott and Star Man have been shown capable of redirecting said beam (they essentially BFR the beam but GL has to use actual physical energy to put the beam there) and the entire JSA was capable of fighting and wounding Stalker, even if he overpowers them
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Fractional dimensions in non-euclidean geometry. Even if it was properly 4D it shouldn't tier the laser without a good feat behind it given how inconsistent dimensions are in DC.
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except it's clearly meant to be an actual mathematical fourth dimensional object
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Unfortunately, even if legit, that's unquantifiable.
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Clearly? How so? They explicitly described the types of dimensions being described and they aren't proper geometric dimensions.
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Bump
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The quote was "Arthur Cayley's fractional geometry". Arthur is known for his work with n-dimensions as quoted here
The quote right after was also a four dimensional object projecting a three dimensional shadow.
It being Tier 2 is something else, but the object is 100% 4th Dimensional in our system and I don't see how you can take it as anything else
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It probably should be Tier 2 since Stalker was powering the device with his own energy. I feel like a bigger problem is if people scale to him cause he did overwhelm the entire JSA at once, but they still wounded him enough to force him to retreat
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