DC Comics - Remove "possibly" for the Darkest Knight

[Transcending]

Do we consider Grant's Supergods canon? If we do there's this scan

 

[Deleted member 21887]

You can ask Xearsay for input, I'm sure he's an expert on the Final Crisis and Mandrakk.

 

[Transcending]

You can ask Xearsay for input, I'm sure he's an expert on the Final Crisis and Mandrakk.

Asked

 

[ImmortalDread]

Asked

Nice

 

[Transcending]

bump

 

[Xearsay]

Just to give some input on the plot manipulation thing involving Mandrakk since I was asked.

Starting off, from Mandrakks level of existence DC is essentially a story. We can go back to Final Crisis Superman Beyond and The Multiversity and see that within the Overvoid where Mandrakk was, DC is presented as this flaw containing stories and an endless narrative.

Here's the scan from The Multiversity which describes the multiverse as an endless play of matter and narrative.

Scan 1 (Multiversity Guidebook #1)

And here's the scans from Final Crisis which also establish how when Mandrakk first inspected the flaw he discovered that it was essentially a structure containing stories.

Scan 1 (Final Crisis Superman Beyond #1)

Scan 2 (Final Crisis Superman Beyond #1)

It is important to note from the second scan that it mentions how the Overvoid became haunted by the mystery of the Thought Robot who infected the Overvoid with narratives causing story to spread like a contagion. Once this legend took root, the Monitors, their history, and the Monitor Sphere were created as an added layer to the Multiverse, with Mandrakk adopting the role as this vampiric, devil like figure who's desire is to destroy existence and the Thought Robot adopting the role as existences savior.

What this means is that basically Nil/The Monitor Sphere and the Monitors were byproducts of the formation of a story with Mandrakk and the Thought Robot adopting biblical like figures/forms within said story. Proving that the concept of story plays an actual foundational role in the formation of existence within the cosmology that beings and structures within the Multiverse are byproducts of. And we know this to be the case through multiple pieces of evidence.

The Monitors themselves are recognized by the Thought Robot as being once faceless and numberless until their essential nature was changed by narratives which formed around them like crystals in solution.

Scan 1(Final Crisis Superman Beyond #2)

And Mandrakk was capable of one shotting these beings.

Scan 1(Final Crisis Superman Beyond #2)

Another example is the Thought Robot who is also considered to be a literal story that Mandrakk was capable of harming which was displayed all throughout the fight scene in Final Crisis Superman Beyond #2.

Scan 1(Final Crisis Superman Beyond #2)

The Multiverse which is treated as containing stories was being drained dry by the Monitors who's true nature is the same as Mandrakks.

Scan 1(Final Crisis Superman Beyond #2)

There is also this "self assembling hyperstory" thing that was mentioned when the Thought Robot was fighting Mandrakk. The Thought Robot would describe this hyperstory as something that was "trying it's best to destroy him." Taking into account everything I've mentioned already, I believe that this hyperstory is what formed and governs the Monitor Sphere and the Monitors after the event that happened in the Overvoid. Additionally, I also believe Mandrakk was the one manipulating this story. Which makes sense as the Thought Robot only becomes aware of this hyperstory the moment Mandrakk starts fighting him and Mandrakk is the only one there who wants to destroy him.

So all in all, I think Mandrakk should definitely keep his plot manipulation. There's proof of the concept of story being something foundational in the formation of existence and being within the cosmology and there's proof of Mandrakk manipulating and destroying things that are defined as a story/narrative. And that's not even taking into account all of the author statements from Grant Morrison which imply Mandrakk has plot manipulation.

 

[Eseseso]

Can I remove the Unknown key for the Batman Who laughs now that Antvasma accepted it?

 

[Transcending]

Can I remove the Unknown key for the Batman Who laughs now that Antvasma accepted it?

Yeah

 

[Transcending]

Also please remove Wally's while you are at it

 

[Eseseso]

Batman who laughs and Flash have been changed

 

[Transcending]

Batman who laughs and Flash have been changed

You forgot to update the Keys, it still shows me like this:

Key: The Batman Who Laughs | The Darkest Knight (Before Crisis Energy) | The Darkest Knight (After Crisis Energy)

 

[Eseseso]

You forgot to update the Keys, it still shows me like this:

Key: The Batman Who Laughs | The Darkest Knight (Before Crisis Energy) | The Darkest Knight (After Crisis Energy)

Thanks, fixed.

 

[Transcending]

Thanks, fixed.

I think you should also remove the "After Crisis Energy" part.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

ecds

 

[Transcending]

ecds

?

 

[Antvasima]

I do not think that we can use anything unofficial and non-canon, such as Supergods, as a basis for the content of our profile pages.

Anyway, is the plot manipulation issue the only thing that we have left to decide here?

 

[Transcending]

Anyway, is the plot manipulation issue the only thing that we have left to decide here?

That and we need to edit Wally's profile but if Xearsay's post on the topic is good enough, we can ignore the Plot Manip topic.

 

[ImmortalDread]

I do not think that we can use anything unofficial and non-canon, such as Supergods, as a basis for the content of our profile pages.

Anyway, is the plot manipulation issue the only thing that we have left to decide here?

After looking at that user response, it seems fine to be applied. He cleared most of stuff.

 

[Antvasima]

Are the following edits that Eseseso and I made sufficient for Wally's page, or is anything more needed?

Flash (Wally West) (Rebirth)

Wally West is The Flash, the fastest man in the multiverse.[1] Formerly the protégé and successor of Barry Allen, he was trapped in the Speed Force for years, with the world forgetting his history until his metaphorical "rebirth." Tier: Varies with speed, up to 2-C, higher with Speed Steal. 1-B...

vsbattles.fandom.com

I am not sure about the plot manipulation, but Xearsay seemed to make good points.

What do you think, @Deagonx ?

 

[Transcending]

Are the following edits that Eseseso and I made sufficient for Wally's page, or is anything more needed?

It still shows me the Low 1-C and Mobius Chair stuff?

 

[Antvasima]

I thought that we removed that. Check again please.

 

[Transcending]

This is what I see

I thought that we removed that. Check again please.This is what I see

 

[Antvasima]

Oh, yes. Sorry about not noticing that part. I will remove the section in question.

 

[Antvasima]

I handled it. Is the page acceptable now?

Flash (Wally West) (Rebirth)

Wally West is The Flash, the fastest man in the multiverse.[1] Formerly the protégé and successor of Barry Allen, he was trapped in the Speed Force for years, with the world forgetting his history until his metaphorical "rebirth." Tier: Varies with speed, up to 2-C, higher with Speed Steal. 1-B...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Transcending]

I handled it. Is the page acceptable now?

Flash (Wally West) (Rebirth)

Wally West is The Flash, the fastest man in the multiverse.[1] Formerly the protégé and successor of Barry Allen, he was trapped in the Speed Force for years, with the world forgetting his history until his metaphorical "rebirth." Tier: Varies with speed, up to 2-C, higher with Speed Steal. 1-B...

vsbattles.fandom.com

"Mobius Chair" needs to be removed-

Standard Equipment: None notable | The Mobius Chair

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you. I handled it.

 

[Transcending]

Also a doubt, here Perpetua says that she was going to create a story, is this Plot Manip or Healing?

 

[Antvasima]

It seems more like figurative speech rather than literal plot manipulation.

 

[Transcending]

Okay

 

[Beyond_transcending]

Plot manipulation. You can't heal a story without having the ability to manipulate it after all.

 

[Antvasima]

What do you refer to specifically?

 

[Beyond_transcending]

It seems more like figurative speech rather than literal plot manipulation.

Can you elaborate on your reasoning for it being figurative speech?

 

[Antvasima]

She is talking about creating a universe and hiding clues throughout time. That is space-time manipulation, not plot manipulation, and talking about people who have eventful lives as living out their stories is quite commonplace. She also never displayed any control over the narrative itself. If she had that ability, she would just have written "...and then all of my opponents and the settings for their stories permanently disappeared, and I won and lived happily ever after. The end." at some point.

 

[ImmortalDread]

She is talking about creating a universe and hiding clues throughout time. That is space-time manipulation, not plot manipulation, and talking about people who have eventful lives as living out their stories is quite commonplace. She also never displayed any control over the narrative itself. If she had that ability, she would just have written "...and then all of my opponents and the settings for their stories permanently disappeared, and I won and lived happily ever after. The end." at some point.

Space-time manipulation by healing a story? What does the story even present? Is the story universe (reality-based)? If so… I doubt that only “space-time” manipulation.

 

[Antvasima]

I do not notice any mention of healing a story in the latest submitted scan in this thread.

 

[Transcending]

What does the story even present?

Iirc Doom?

To be clear Perpetua wasn't going to heal a story, she was going to destroy one and create another.

Is the story universe (reality-based)?

Yes. Crisis Energy represents the 7 fundamental forces of the Multiverse.

 

[ImmortalDread]

I do not notice any mention of healing a story in the latest submitted scan in this thread.

My bad. Apologies. It is likewise destroying one and creating a multiverse (story). This is actually plot manipulation if he reviewed it as a story.

 

[Antvasima]

We need further evidence of controlling the plot, so we know that it is not just figurative speech.

 

[Transcending]

Also doesn't the fact BWL could fight without seeing anything(he literally has a steel helmet covering his eyes) count for an ability?

 

[Antvasima]

Enhanced senses seem fine, I think, but he may have had advanced visual equipment inside of his helmet.