DC Comics - Remove "possibly" for the Darkest Knight

[Eseseso]

Would it be possible to remove the Darkest Knight's pre-crisis energy key?

I just feel that unless we give it a tier then there's no point in having it.

 

[Antvasima]

That seems reasonable to me.

 

[Armorchompy]

I very strongly agree with the above points. Let's not be so upgrade-hungry that we insert completely unreliable and ridiculously exaggerated statistics that are derived from one-time instances of extreme plot-induced stupidity.

It also isn't a long-lasting and prominent enough power-up according to our rules to qualify for a statistics key, so we should probably remove it.

He has a blatant, unquestionable feat and no anti-feats, it's the conclusion of his storyline, by all accounts it should be on the profile, I don't care to get into yet another useless uphill fight about adding tiers to comic book profiles but I think this is blatantly just fear of putting a big tier on a profile. My opinion that it should be added remains unless an actual argument that it does not belong is formed.

I'm leaving this thread and if my time is going to be insulted with arbitrary skepticism such as this I would quite rather not be bothered on the topic of DC high tiers in the future.

 

[Eseseso]

Also, I disagree with Batman who laughs killing Spectre not being a 2-A feat.

All the Spectre's keys on this wiki are 2-A aside from his 1-A one, so he should go up to 2-A with prep or just not have that mentioned. The fact that he has a book that shows how to wipe out the multiverse only supports this 2-A prep.

 

[Transcending]

All the Spectre's keys on this wiki are 2-A aside from his 1-A one

No actually, there's a 4-B one-

Tier: 2-A, higher with the power of Earth's sorcerers | 2-A | 2-A | 2-C, possibly 2-A | 4-B | 2-A, possibly higher | 1-A

 

[Eseseso]

No actually, there's a 4-B one-

Tier: 2-A, higher with the power of Earth's sorcerers | 2-A | 2-A | 2-C, possibly 2-A | 4-B | 2-A, possibly higher | 1-A

Ok then use that as a 4-B feat.

 

[Antvasima]

He has a blatant, unquestionable feat and no anti-feats, it's the conclusion of his storyline, by all accounts it should be on the profile, I don't care to get into yet another useless uphill fight about adding tiers to comic book profiles but I think this is blatantly just fear of putting a big tier on a profile. My opinion that it should be added remains unless an actual argument that it does not belong is formed.

I'm leaving this thread and if my time is going to be insulted with arbitrary skepticism such as this I would quite rather not be bothered on the topic of DC high tiers in the future.

It is not an insult, just me trying to uphold my staff duties of acting as a quality control buffer against extremely unreliable statistics.

Superboy-Prime had no official reason for such a ridiculously extreme power-up, has no feats of his own anywhere near approaching this scale, and needed help to even accomplish a planetary feat right previously. There was no logical reason for him to suddenly gain so much power other than extreme plot convention, and focusing on the most extreme power levels imaginable while ignoring all contradictions/anti-feats is not an appropriate approach at all.

Also, our rules forbid listing these types of temporary power-ups, that do not even last for many issues, in the first place.

 

[Beyond_transcending]

It is not an insult, just me trying to uphold my staff duties of acting as a quality control buffer against extremely unreliable statistics.

Superboy-Prime had no official reason for such a ridiculously extreme power-up, has no feats of his own anywhere near approaching this scale, and needed help to even accomplish a planetary feat right previously. There was no logical reason for him to suddenly gain so much power other than extreme plot convention, and focusing on the most extreme power levels imaginable while ignoring all contradictions/anti-feats is not an appropriate approach at all.

Also, our rules forbid listing these types of temporary power-ups, that do not even last for many issues, in the first place.

Exactly.

 

[Antvasima]

Would somebody here be willing to remove SBP's Death Metal statistics key, or are there still objections about it?

 

[Transcending]

What should we write in the "Notes" section?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, preferably something similar to what I wrote previously. Would this be acceptable?

"Do not scale Superboy-Prime from his fight with The Darkest Knight. He had no official reason for such a ridiculously extreme power-up, has no feats of his own anywhere near approaching this scale, and needed help to even accomplish a planetary feat right previously in the Death Metal storyline. There was no logical reason for him to suddenly gain so much power other than extreme plot convention. Also, our rules forbid listing these types of very brief power-ups, that do not last for many issues, for DC Comics and Marvel Comics characters."

 

[Transcending]

Well, preferably something similar to what I wrote previously. Would this be acceptable?

"Do not scale Superboy-Prime from his fight with The Darkest Knight. He had no official reason for such a ridiculously extreme power-up, has no feats of his own anywhere near approaching this scale, and needed help to even accomplish a planetary feat right previously in the Death Metal storyline. There was no logical reason for him to suddenly gain so much power other than extreme plot convention. Also, our rules forbid listing these types of very brief power-ups, that do not last for many issues, for DC Comics and Marvel Comics characters."

Yeah, that would probably work

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you. If I unlock the SBP page, are you willing to update it properly?

 

[Transcending]

Thank you. If I unlock the SBP page, are you willing to update it properly?

It's a bit late where I live so I can't do it right now but I can some time later

 

[Eseseso]

Still wondering what we plan to do about Mobius chair/anti-crisis Wally west, since the Darkest Knight wanted his power to kill Perpetua so he should be moved from Low 1-C to 1-A

 

[Armorchompy]

I wanted to apologize for being a bit harsh earlier today

I still fully stand by what I think should be done with SBP and I think the fact that it isn't is indicative of a greater issue with how DC is treated, but I could have expressed that more professionally

That is all, carry on

 

[Recap_]

When will the SBP be fixed?

 

[Antvasima]

I wanted to apologize for being a bit harsh earlier today

I still fully stand by what I think should be done with SBP and I think the fact that it isn't is indicative of a greater issue with how DC is treated, but I could have expressed that more professionally

That is all, carry on

Thank you for the apology. It is appreciated.

I still stand by that a 1-A Superboy Prime does not make any logical sense, and is against our standard conventions to list, for the reasons that I mentioned here earlier though.

Also, if it was indicative of some kind of insincere agenda, why do I only object to Prime specifically here, and not Wonder Woman or Perpetua, for example?

 

[Antvasima]

It's a bit late where I live so I can't do it right now but I can some time later

I think that you can handle it now if you wish.

 

[Antvasima]

Still wondering what we plan to do about Mobius chair/anti-crisis Wally west, since the Darkest Knight wanted his power to kill Perpetua so he should be moved from Low 1-C to 1-A

For how many issues did he have that power boost? Was it just temporarily or considerably more significant? If the latter is the case, he can probably have his listed statistics increased, but otherwise the statistics key should likely be removed.

 

[Transcending]

I think that you can handle it now if you wish.

I can do it tomorrow

 

[Recap_]

Bump?

 

[Antvasima]

What do we currently need to do here, and which pages do I need to unlock?

 

[Transcending]

What do we currently need to do here, and which pages do I need to unlock?

I can edit Superboy-Prime now

 

[Eseseso]

For how many issues did he have that power boost? Was it just temporarily or considerably more significant? If the latter is the case, he can probably have his listed statistics increased, but otherwise the statistics key should likely be removed.

We should just remove it IMO

 

[Antvasima]

I can edit Superboy-Prime now

Okay. Feel free to do so then.

We should just remove it IMO

That seems fine to me as well, if it is a brief power-up that is against our rules to include.

 

[Eseseso]

Yeah and it's not like Flash ever does anything with the power-up.

 

[Antvasima]

I have unlocked the page, but for how many issues did he have the full power-up in, and what are our current limits in that regard?

Flash (Wally West) (Rebirth)

Wally West is The Flash, the fastest man in the multiverse.[1] Formerly the protégé and successor of Barry Allen, he was trapped in the Speed Force for years, with the world forgetting his history until his metaphorical "rebirth." Tier: Varies with speed, up to 2-C, higher with Speed Steal. Low...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Eseseso]

Btw would someone be able to briefly explain why DC has 1-A cosmology?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, some versions of its cosmology legitimately seem to reach 1-A, but others do not, and a tier 0 cosmology is extremely unreliable wanking as far as I am aware.

 

[Transcending]

Composite DC has multiple things going for it to be 1-A. It would be hard to achieve that with the Cosmology split tho.

I agree with Ant about Tier 0 too. I don't think either of DC or Marvel reach Tier 0, even with composite. Most of the Tier 0 scalings I have seen misinterpret the Tiering System though it can be a bit hard to understand it so I don't blame them. High 1-A is ok with me however.

 

[Antvasima]

From what I recall, after we thoroughly analyzed the DC Comics cosmology/continuity, we reached the conclusion that at least one of the versions of it legitimately reach 1-A on its own, but not all of them.

 

[Transcending]

From what I recall, after we thoroughly analyzed the DC Comics cosmology/continuity, we reached the conclusion that at least one of the versions of it legitimately reach 1-A on its own, but not all of them.

Iirc the blog had the Divine Presence at 1-A but don't remember the version.

 

[Transcending]

I am done with SPB. Feel free to double check and we can then close it.

Now we just need to discuss AC Flash and Mandrakk.

 

[Eseseso]

I am done with SPB. Feel free to double check and we can then close it.

Now we just need to discuss AC Flash and Mandrakk.

Just remove that AC Flash key entirely.

 

[Antvasima]

I am done with SPB. Feel free to double check and we can then close it.

I checked, and your changes looked good to me. Thank you for helping out.

Now we just need to discuss AC Flash and Mandrakk.

Just remove that AC Flash key entirely.

The AC Flash key can probably be removed unless it lasted for many issues and was a very significant event, yes.

What do we still have to decide regarding Mandrakk? Whether or not he has plot manipulation? What is the tally here so far regarding that?

 

[Transcending]

I checked, and your changes looked good to me. Thank you for helping out.

Thank you

The AC Flash key can probably be removed unless it lasted for many issues and was a very significant event, yes.

It only lasted for a very few issues, it can be removed

What do we still have to decide regarding Mandrakk? Whether or not he has plot manipulation? What is the tally here so far regarding that?

No one commented on it unfortunately

 

[Antvasima]

It only lasted for a very few issues, it can be removed

Okay. Feel free to do so then.

No one commented on it unfortunately

Okay. Can you write down and/or quote the arguments for each side please, so I can ask for more input afterwards?

 

[Transcending]

Okay. Can you write down and/or quote the arguments for each sode please, so I can ask for more input afterwards?

No one has really made any arguments, it's just this scan. We need to decide if it counts for Plot Manip or not. Possible counter-arguments against him having Plot Manip would be that the scan is an author statement and that Mandrakk never actually drained everything and reduced everything to nothingness as Grant said. An argument supporting Plot Manip would be that we can interpret the scan as Mandrakk having the ability to drain stories and that he doesn't actually have to do it.

 

[Antvasima]

What do we still have to decide regarding Mandrakk? Whether or not he has plot manipulation? What is the tally here so far regarding that?

No one commented on it unfortunately

Okay. Can you write down and/or quote the arguments for each side please, so I can ask for more input afterwards?

No one has really made any arguments, it's just this scan. We need to decide if it counts for Plot Manip or not. Possible counter-arguments against him having Plot Manip would be that the scan is an author statement and that Mandrakk never actually drained everything and reduced everything to nothingness as Grant said. An argument supporting Plot Manip would be that we can interpret the scan as Mandrakk having the ability to drain stories and that he doesn't actually have to do it.

@Eficiente @Qawsedf234 @SuperAPM @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepme @LuciferDC099 @Ehnkr2beboh @Deagonx @Elizio33 @LordTracer @MarvelFanatic119 @catzlaflame @Kulf_Boba @LephyrTheRevanchist @Alonik @Gasper @Confluctor @Maverick_Zero_X

Would any of you be willing to help out here please?