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DC Comics herald-level characters upgrade discussion - Part 2
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We can simply create sandboxes and simply re-format them.
I don't have admin perms to edit those blogs but I would re-format them.
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If you are willing to create a blog that lists all of the relevant feats from them organised depending on the types, that might be very useful for us. Thank you.
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Sure. I guess this will work. I will do it today.If you are willing to create a blog that lists all of the relevant feats from them organised depending on the types, that might be very useful for us. Thank you.
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Maybe make sure she actually has permission to post here first, i know you want her to be staff, but she is most certainly not staff yet.If you are willing to create a blog that lists all of the relevant feats from them organised depending on the types, that might be very useful for us. Thank you.
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It's a decent start, but could be organized better and individual feats could get more proper calculations taking ISL into account and what not.
Guacamolefletcher
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First, I was given permission to comment on this thread by Emirp Sumitpo (don't know how to link that interaction)
Now, for the tendons breaking via lifting the planet as an ABSOLUTE anti-feat on attack potency, I want to comment on some things.
Tendons don't have an exact "tensile strength" like regular stuff does, in real life human beings and basically every animal. Injuries such as a muscle tear are multi-factorial things influenced by your stress levels, mental state, recovery, and general neurological factors. To put this into perspective, someone can tear a muscle using 10% of their maximal weight by being influenced in their stress levels and mental state. As a result, I think it completely stands to reason that someone might break their tendons in this context.
TLDR: Real life humans' connective tissue and skeletal system literally have changing tensile / compressive strengths depending on mood
Now, for the tendons breaking via lifting the planet as an ABSOLUTE anti-feat on attack potency, I want to comment on some things.
Tendons don't have an exact "tensile strength" like regular stuff does, in real life human beings and basically every animal. Injuries such as a muscle tear are multi-factorial things influenced by your stress levels, mental state, recovery, and general neurological factors. To put this into perspective, someone can tear a muscle using 10% of their maximal weight by being influenced in their stress levels and mental state. As a result, I think it completely stands to reason that someone might break their tendons in this context.
TLDR: Real life humans' connective tissue and skeletal system literally have changing tensile / compressive strengths depending on mood
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If you are willing to create a blog that lists all of the relevant feats from them organised depending on the types, that might be very useful for us. Thank you.
@ImmortalDread
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Will do on Friday.
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I will list all relevant blogs here which are listed by him: (they are all about Superman and one about Dr. Manhatten)
- https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Sketchyfan2see/Superman_under_the_weight_of_the_world
- https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Sketchyfan2see/Superman_seeing_stars
- https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Sketchyfan2see/Superman_light_years_ahead_(on_speed)
- https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Sketchyfan2see/Shedding_light_(speed)_on_post_crisis_superman's_light_speed_feats
- https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U..._moon_(Post_crisis_moon_level_strength_feats)
- https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...n_moving_the_world_(planetary_strength_feats)
- https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Sketchyfan2see/Final_Crisis:_Superman_Beyond_infinite_strength/speed?
- https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Sketchyfan2see/Wonder_Woman_shattered_god_feat:_Around_the_universe_in_under_80s?
- https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...:_Fight_Commentary_on_the_Superman_Superfight
- https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Sketchyfan2see/The_Gravity_of_Superman's_black_hole_feats
Wonderwoman gets its own sandbox.
He also has Dr. Manhattan feats, should we also reformat them, or they are irrelevant to the discussion?
Also do note that I will create a sandbox and not blog, so it can be accessible to everyone who is voluntarily wanting to help the project (please stick to the current style of sandbox)
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Dr Manhattan and Cosmic Armor Superman are not relevant.
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Removed! Thank you for telling me.
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I think the N52/Rebirth ones are not relevant either, since this is pre-flashpoint
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I removed this one too.
Here is my sandbox, it's not finished yet, since I am also including other feats (should be finished today)
ImmortalDread/Supermanfeats
vsbattles.fandom.com
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What's the purpose of gathering these again? They're not anti-feats, they don't counter what OP is pushing. This is just sidetracking the thread.
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"Portrayal" is pretty subjective, they don't really disprove anything above them. In fact most are fairly casual. The few that qualify as actual antifeats can be added on to the list but I don't think most of them really mean anything.
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I strongly disagree. I think that the most self-evident feats for the post-Crisis DC Comics herald characters have consistently portrayed them between tier 5-C and 4-B.
The post-Rebirth characters are likely far more powerful though.
The post-Rebirth characters are likely far more powerful though.
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The greatest amount of "self-evident feats for Post-Crisis heralds" are 9-B. There's a billion of those, way more than any amount of cosmic feats. But unless we're arguing that being most consistently shown pulling off 9-B feats locks you at that tier, this arguments holds no weight. If anything, being shown to easily pull off cosmic feats is support for universal scales of power, it doesn't discount them.
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That's not the point of the thread though, the point of that thread is to discuss the validity of Tier 3 to 2.
Also several of the feats in the blog are kinda just wrong, but I'll write a full post when I'm free.
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I wouldn't bother. There's nothing to debunk here, because there isn't a worthwhile argument in the first place. And this thread, especially considering the last one, has been derailed for far too long.
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If their most frequent displayed peak feats are in the tier 5 to 4 range, I definitely do not think that we should rate them as being infinitely more powerful than that. To me that comes across as completely ridiculous.
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That's completely subjective. To me, and to most others, it's completely fine, if the feats aren't debunked or consistently disproven by anti-feats. You would have to prove that enough of those are "peak feats" for the argument to hold weight.
Something something, Common Sense Fallacy.
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You do realize you're shooting yourself in the foot here because then even that won't stand its testament against the even more numerous counts of 9-B feats that they have right? Or do you just want fiction in general to be nothing more than 9-B?
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I think we call it Argument from Incredulity, but I could be wrong.
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close enough
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For the record, I'm going to go and say that if an amount of reliable, roughly consistent anti-feats were posted that surpasses the amount of universal feats, I would be willing to disagree with this CRT (Granted, they could be countered with more casual showings above the tier of the anti-feat, but I'm saying that there is an argument to be made here).
On that topic:
I disagree with this reasoning. Not only is the 10% thing an absolutely extreme case (mental state is only one of many factors listed) that I think might not even be possible in this situation, but even then 10% of a universe is... more than a planet. I think this is a bit of a reach, and I would still consider the anti-feat valid (although granted, it's coming from the stress of trying to push the planet rather than the sheer AP of it, so it's just a LS anti-feat)
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From what I recall Superman had to train to power up to an extreme degree and also be charged to his limits by a sun-dip to even be able to move Pluto during Our Worlds At War, which was quite near the end of the Post-Crisis era. We have been very generous to even give him a tier High 4-C rating, but scaling him literally infinitely above that level still doesn't make any sense whatsoever unless he has at least a few very explicit feat of that scale on his own without "everybody can fight everybody" scaling from other characters.
Look, I really really like the Post-Crisis era Superman, but what you are arguing for doesn't make any logical sense except from an extremely biased viewpoint that doesn't care about truth, just about as much power as possible. Can't you all just focus on the Post-Rebirth era instead? He seems to have been powered up to an extreme degree there.
Look, I really really like the Post-Crisis era Superman, but what you are arguing for doesn't make any logical sense except from an extremely biased viewpoint that doesn't care about truth, just about as much power as possible. Can't you all just focus on the Post-Rebirth era instead? He seems to have been powered up to an extreme degree there.
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Also where's this coming from? Why the subjectivity and bias towards Post-Rebirth Superman all of a sudden? I'm confused.
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Cool, that's one anti-feat (if you can provide scans). Not enough to counter the list made by Emirp.
Yes, that's how scaling works. If you ignore it you end up with something like 8-A Wonder Woman, 5-C Martian Manhunter and 2-C Hal Jordan. It's a good thing that that isn't happening. Unless you can debunk the scaling in specific, just complaining about it isn't going to hold any meaning.
Completely gratuitous and subjective accusation, kindly **** off. Just yesterday I made a profile for a VG character that I could convincingly have rated as 5-A, and put him as 9-B+ instead because the feat didn't quite hold up. If I hadn't cared ot be conservative I'd have easily gotten away with it, especially given the verse's obscurity. I'm currently working on Valiant Comics profiles that peak at 6-A while I could easily just take stuff out of context (or simply interpreted it a little differently) to rate them as 2-A. Do not dare to accuse me of caring for big stats over accuracy. You need to learn that your own view of the character's power level isn't universal, as simple as that.
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Look, Emirp's list was almost completely debunked previously, and contained an extremely limited amount of explicit feats that were remotely reliable and standing on their own without scaling from fighting situations, and we have a long list of much more reliable and explicit feats in the tier 5 to tier 4 range, both the ones that Deagonx, Elizio33, and I assembled previously, and the ones that Dread will try to organise currently.
Also, yes, DC Comics is not quite as bad as Marvel Comics when it comes to insanely inconsistent powerlevel discrepancies during fighting matchups, but I will continue to have an extremely strong impression that it exists, and you will have to try to deal with it without taking out unrelated frustrations out on me.
Finally, you need to calm down and use a far less hostile and subversive tone and attitude. The ongoing relentless quick knee-jerk antagonism from you two and a few other members is turning very tiresome to deal with, and is not acceptable from staff members who are supposed to try to be collaborative with each other, especially as I am usually trying very hard to be very nice, well-intended, and reasonable for a head of this type of community, despite my mental disabilities.
Also, yes, DC Comics is not quite as bad as Marvel Comics when it comes to insanely inconsistent powerlevel discrepancies during fighting matchups, but I will continue to have an extremely strong impression that it exists, and you will have to try to deal with it without taking out unrelated frustrations out on me.
Finally, you need to calm down and use a far less hostile and subversive tone and attitude. The ongoing relentless quick knee-jerk antagonism from you two and a few other members is turning very tiresome to deal with, and is not acceptable from staff members who are supposed to try to be collaborative with each other, especially as I am usually trying very hard to be very nice, well-intended, and reasonable for a head of this type of community, despite my mental disabilities.
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No it wasn't? Most of it is completely untouched. And we as a wiki allow scaling as a concept so I see absolutely no issue with that.
I'd say my frustrations are plenty related if I'm being accused of ignoring logic for the purpose of a higher number.
If you outright accuse me of something completely unfounded I will not be nice in my response, that much is very warranted. If you don't want me to then don't that, the choice is in your hands. If you keep doing it I will keep being "hostile and subversive".
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