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DC Comics - Animal Man Cosmology Determination
- Thread starter Xearsay
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Also, you need to port all of these images to Imgur before adding them to wiki. We don't allow images from rco directly anymore
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Sorry, I didn't know. I'll do the needed changes
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- #85
Also here's a better justification because I didn't realize you were actually trying to change the profiles. My bad lol.
Varies from likely 7-C(Tanked an explosion of energy from Antagon with very minimal damage) to Low 1-C(Took root in the space beyond all knowing and recreated the native universe there by dreaming it into existence)
Although you'll have to convert the scans to imgur first like Confluctor said.
Varies from likely 7-C(Tanked an explosion of energy from Antagon with very minimal damage) to Low 1-C(Took root in the space beyond all knowing and recreated the native universe there by dreaming it into existence)
Although you'll have to convert the scans to imgur first like Confluctor said.
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Where is the 7C coming from? The universe destruction is a bit too vague and can be hax related, if not, then should be billion times greater than 7c.
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7-C comes from Buddy tanking an explosion of energy from Antagon with very minimal damage. And since Antagons casual blast of energy were shown(Animal Man #50) to be capable of decimating an entire town(Animal Man #50), I interpreted the scaling as Buddy varying in base to at least "town level."
Also the universe destruction thing is kind of vague but it's shown on panel that Antagon destroyed it with his own energy and not some type of hax.
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You would probably need to get that calced. Since it could be higher or lower. But for now, until the calc comes, I would recommend putting it at likely and then when someone calcs it, you can replace it with a concrete rating.
Also, might wanna include these scans in the main AP section when updating it.
Also, might wanna include these scans in the main AP section when updating it.
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- #89
Thanks. Will do.
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Okay, now I think everything is fine.
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- #91
Nice job. However you still need change his town level rating to "likely town level" as we don't have an actual calc for it yet. And delete all that nonsense written in his note section on his wall as it's blatantly wrong. Also Animal Man #50 needs to be added to the reference section.
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Did it. And man, this profile is realy, realy strange. Like, they put his inteligence as "unknown" and other things that looks like so lazy.
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DC files in general are lacking in quality. Aside from ap, cosmology, and speed upgrades, barely any work has been put into the others oof
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Antvasima asked to wait until the thread is closed to change AM's profile...
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Yeah from what I saw the ones in charge for the tiering system needs to give their opinions about it
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- #97
Can Antvasima at least ping members who are knowledgeable on tier 1 and up to evaluate my proposals? This thread won't go anywhere until he does. The last set of people he pinged to evaluate the tiers of the cosmology were DC knowledgeable members. Which doesn't make any sense as DC knowledgeable members don't specialize in understanding the tiering system.
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Here’s the thing though, Ant pinged 4 knowledgeable members to evaluate the information, half of which have been inactive for some time and haven’t showed up. Only two knowledgeable members showed up and they both complimented the post. Then me and Ant moved on to discussing tiers. After I gave my proposal for tiers Ant pinged people who were knowledgeable on DC to evaluate them. Which like I said before doesn’t make sense.
If Ant wants the information evaluated again then he should have referred them to the information in the original post and not the tiers. And he should also ping different people since the last set of people he pinged either already showed up, don’t care about the thread, or are inactive.
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Pretty sure the low 1c part was accepted by multiple people.
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Well if the descriptions given are true, I think the given tiers make sense.
Then Dr. Manhattan's page needs an edit:
Doctor Manhattan
Jonathan Osterman was born to a watchmaker in 1929 and planned to follow in his father's footsteps, but after the United States dropped the atomic bomb on Hiroshima, his father urged him to pursue a career in nuclear physics, declaring his profession outdated. Osterman attended Princeton...
vsbattles.fandom.com
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Yeah a lot of old pages still have them. Tho most of Doc's have been updated, it's just a few left I think
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They have been a part of our DC cosmology revision project for quite a while, so I trust their abilities to properly evaluate this in a proper context, to see if your very extreme claims are even correct, rather than bringing in people who do not have sufficient specific knowledge about the topic as the first step of procedure.
@Deagonx @LuciferDC099 @Elizio33 @Sandman31 @Eficiente @Firestorm808 @Kerfuffles2 @Planck69
I would still greatly appreciate your help here:
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More specifically, part of the new statistics (7-C) also seemed based on guesswork rather than calculations.
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- #105
Well then can you at least ping more people instead of those same 8? 2 of them already complimented the post and the rest seem unlikely to show up since they’re either inactive or uninterested.
I didn’t guess that Animal Man was likely 7-C. Antagon’s blast of energy was blatantly shown to be destroying an entire town and Buddy tanked an explosion of his energy with minimal damage. That makes him at least likely town level. Which would have been an ok rating to apply until we got a calc.
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I sent a notification to the people who have helped me with the DC Comics cosmology project. I want to check with them how your revision fits into that context.
Also, all statistics tiers between 9-A and 4-B tend to need accepted calculation blogs as a basis. Just because somebody has destroyed a town, this does not remotely automatically make them town level in energy output regardless of method, timeframe, and the size of the town.
Also, all statistics tiers between 9-A and 4-B tend to need accepted calculation blogs as a basis. Just because somebody has destroyed a town, this does not remotely automatically make them town level in energy output regardless of method, timeframe, and the size of the town.
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I understand what you’re saying. To be honest, they probably won’t be able to answer you on that question, but I can. Here’s what Grants cosmology will look like if the scaling I presented gets incorporated.
- Material realms and Godsphere stay the same.
- Lifeweb and Worlds beyond the third Kingdom get incorporated below Comic Book Limbo but stay separated from the Material realms and the Godsphere.
- Nil and the realm of the Overvoid get their tier up scaled since they exist beyond Comic Book Limbo.
If you say so. I will try to get a calc for the feat.
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Well, I have sent them a PM message about this, but several of them are only online here occasionally, so I don't want you to constantly try to rush this thread and constantly demand the same type of replies from me. You will have to be very patient, just like I have been. I started our project around September 2020.
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Bump
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Will read up on when available.
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My evaluation of the Animal Man Scans and Planes of Existence for this standalone cosmology.
Space Beyond all knowing - Taking this as the place that encompasses all timelines, I can see Low 1-C.
Hierarchy of Universes - I'm not that knowledgeable on this Quantum Theory, but I can see the interpretation of layered reality with the dream analogy. I don't know how many layers it goes, but it would be at least 1-C, possibly 1-B taking into account Space beyond all knowing.
The Lifeweb/The Red - I can see at least High 1-B, possibly Low 1-A
Peak of the Web - at least High 1-B, possibly Low 1-A
Worlds Soul - At least Low 1-A, possibly 1-A
Worlds Beyond - 1-A
The Great Light - At least 1-A I suppose.
Comic Book Limbo - High 1-A I suppose.
Multiverse - Do we classify a branching timeline toward infinity as "any higher finite amount" or countably infinite?
Space Beyond all knowing - Taking this as the place that encompasses all timelines, I can see Low 1-C.
Hierarchy of Universes - I'm not that knowledgeable on this Quantum Theory, but I can see the interpretation of layered reality with the dream analogy. I don't know how many layers it goes, but it would be at least 1-C, possibly 1-B taking into account Space beyond all knowing.
The Lifeweb/The Red - I can see at least High 1-B, possibly Low 1-A
Peak of the Web - at least High 1-B, possibly Low 1-A
Worlds Soul - At least Low 1-A, possibly 1-A
Worlds Beyond - 1-A
The Great Light - At least 1-A I suppose.
Comic Book Limbo - High 1-A I suppose.
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Interesting. Also this should absolutely not be a standalone. Grant played the most significant role in developing all of this. The hierarchy of universes was designed by Grant, along with The Great Light, The Implicate Order/Comic Book Limbo and The Lifeweb/The Red. Additionally, Grant also makes use of the concepts within Animal Man in other stories as well. The Implicate Order being reintroduced in Final Crisis is the most prime example. The Implicate Order also being referenced in Arkham Aslyum is another example. (Batman Arkhum Aslyum 1989) Or how Mandrakk is entirely based off of Antagon. Additionally Animal Man would be a focal starting point for Morrison's meta shenanigans and cosmological theories(Superstring theory, Bohm Theory, etc) that we would see in later stories. With even the idea of the Overvoid being technically first introduced in Animal Man.
All in all, Animal Man's influence on the rest of Grants work and Grants influence on Animal Man is way too high for us to separate them. So considering this to be a standalone wouldn't make sense.
All in all, Animal Man's influence on the rest of Grants work and Grants influence on Animal Man is way too high for us to separate them. So considering this to be a standalone wouldn't make sense.
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The way I see it, Grant started laying some ideas in Animal Man 1-25. The later authors on Animal Man built from that.
Grant would later revamp his cosmology with Final Crisis and Multiversity, not really mentioning some of the concepts he had from AM except Comic Limbo.
I break up this topic into 2 sections.
What is the Animal Man cosmology on its own?
Is this Animal Man cosmology compatible or conflicting with Grant's established Final Crisis/Multiversity cosmology?
At this time, I'm only giving my thoughts on the first section.
Grant would later revamp his cosmology with Final Crisis and Multiversity, not really mentioning some of the concepts he had from AM except Comic Limbo.
I break up this topic into 2 sections.
What is the Animal Man cosmology on its own?
Is this Animal Man cosmology compatible or conflicting with Grant's established Final Crisis/Multiversity cosmology?
At this time, I'm only giving my thoughts on the first section.
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I understand. Since you're only answering the first section I won't further assume your stance on whether it should be a standalone or not. However I don't really think we can claim that Grant revamped his cosmology. Mainly because Grant was already laying the foundation for Final Crisis in the 1989 Doom patrol run. Which started up right after Animal Man and was being written during the same time as Batman Arkham Aslyum. So it's clear that Grant was working with a cosmology comprised of multiple concepts. And like I said before, a lot of concepts Grant brought into Final Crisis and Multiversity came from the later comics. Mandrakk being based off Antagon, the Overvoid being the comic book page, etc.
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Thank you for helping out, Firestorm808. However, since this is a drastic change that would affect our ongoing DC Comics cosmology revision project, we need further input from other participants as well before we can do anything.
We also obviously cannot create a composite cosmology by mixing Morrison with other Animal Man authors.
We also obviously cannot create a composite cosmology by mixing Morrison with other Animal Man authors.
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Why can’t we have a cosmology that’s defined by multiple writers? Looking at Elizios sandbox you guys already did this by including justifications from stuff like Countdown into Morrison’s cosmology. You guys also did it with Snyder’s cosmology, including entirely separate comics that Scott Snyder played no part in and was written separately by people like Steve Orlando, Scott Lobdell, and more. So to say “we obviously can’t do this” is completely hypocritical considering that you’ve already done it.
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We can only do it with the parts that Morrison has acknowledged and incorporated into his canon, and have to be very careful in this regard. Otherwise we start stacking the very conflicting different types of cosmologies from all of the writers on top of each otHer again, which turns the character statistics heavily exaggerated and contradictory with the stories that they have been displayed in.
My apologies, but I am not going to budge in this regard, as your suggested kind of approach is what has turned our DC Comics scaling into such an enormous incoherent mess in the first palce, which we have been trying to straighten out, make sense of, and fix for almost 2 years now.
My apologies, but I am not going to budge in this regard, as your suggested kind of approach is what has turned our DC Comics scaling into such an enormous incoherent mess in the first palce, which we have been trying to straighten out, make sense of, and fix for almost 2 years now.
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The stories that he wrote himself, sure. That seems reasonable, but not all of the Animal Man writers that came after him.
We also need to figure out in what manners he might have modified his cosmology from his 1988 or so Animal Man stories to the 2008 Final Crisis event.
We also need to figure out in what manners he might have modified his cosmology from his 1988 or so Animal Man stories to the 2008 Final Crisis event.
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