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SSJ vegito because the statements are that he's the strongest warrior. So we can only assume he's the strongest at his strongest not at his weakest.
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DBZ Toei: More Downgrades
- Thread starter Vizer04
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If we're going by manga, then yes I'd say that SSJ Vegito is the strongest because he immediately transformed into a Super Saiyan to fight Buuhan, which implies that he didn't believe that his base form was strong enough to take on Buuhan. It was only the anime that had base Vegito dominating Buuhan. Personally, I like the way the manga does it because it makes more sense that Super Saiyan would be required after Buu had absorbed so many fighters, especially someone as strong as Gohan.
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Also, in GT, about that hell shaking feat, Goku did violently shake Enma's palace (inbetween Heaven and Hell) from Hell itself. So he should be Galaxy level+, unless they weren't far from the checkout station.
Nullflowerblush
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The statement was completely changed.
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Ok, then we will have to look at Goku shaking the afterlife in GT.
Eden_Warlock99
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Goku shaking the afterlife would only scale to Super 17 Saga Goku tho
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Although, since SSJ Vegito in buu saga is confirmed to be >= Baby Saga SSJ4 Goku, it'd at least boost vegito.
Eden_Warlock99
She/Her- 10,579
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No but the issue is that Base Beginning of GT Goku is now merely exafoe level since I don't think there is any way to backscale him from his 17 saga self
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Kid Buu was only considered most dangerous, not most powerful. Meaning Kid Buu is more bloodlusted where as Super Buu and various fusion forms tend to toy with his foes.
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^
Base Goku Shaking the afterlife in GT would be 1/4th of the fusion reborn feat value assuming that Emma’s palace lies at the center of the entire realm as depicted in the map.
The reason would be that Fusion Reborn Feat shook everything all the way to Grand Kai’s planet which is located at the opposite end of the afterlife warranting the full radius of the afterlife to be used whereas GT would be using half of that distance resulting in a feat exactly 4 times less potent.
Base Goku Shaking the afterlife in GT would be 1/4th of the fusion reborn feat value assuming that Emma’s palace lies at the center of the entire realm as depicted in the map.
The reason would be that Fusion Reborn Feat shook everything all the way to Grand Kai’s planet which is located at the opposite end of the afterlife warranting the full radius of the afterlife to be used whereas GT would be using half of that distance resulting in a feat exactly 4 times less potent.
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This is the anime continuity.
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Ok, so someone in the comments of the original afterlife shaking feat stated that with the new universe 7 size that the Fusion reborn feat would be 4.724 yottafoe (roughly baseline 3-C+), so 1/4 of that is 1.181 yottafoe (still very high 3-C), which funnily enough is almost the same as Kirby's 3-C feat.
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I mean...I guess?
DBS does reference the DBZ filler arc of Bulma getting possessed by Frog Ginyu as well as Tarble so that's something.
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So we know that 17 saga and beyond GT base Goku is definitely a 3-C, especially since he did that hell-shaking feat while powering up from a heavily restrained state, but I don't think that applies to Beginning of Gt Goku unless we can prove that he was comparable in both arcs.
Also, like I said before, for some reason SSJ4 in the black dragon arc is a 3-B+ (as is Syn Shenron) so that should probably be removed since I don't see anything supporting them being above normal 3-B.
Also, since we don't know how strong SSJ4 Baby saga Goku is, SSJ Vegito in buu saga remains a 4-A.
Also, like I said before, for some reason SSJ4 in the black dragon arc is a 3-B+ (as is Syn Shenron) so that should probably be removed since I don't see anything supporting them being above normal 3-B.
Also, since we don't know how strong SSJ4 Baby saga Goku is, SSJ Vegito in buu saga remains a 4-A.
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Either way, the point still stands. Kid Buu being stronger than Buuhan or Buutanks would still be the biggest of inconsistencies. Super Buu = SSJ3 Gotenks whom Goku said is stronger than himself. Ultimate Gohan stomps Super Buu, but is easily overpowered by Buutanks and stomps SSJ3 Goku harder, Buuhan makes Buutanks look like a joke and Vegito was needed just to turn the tables. SSJ3 Goku was able to match and even have an upperhand against Kid Buu but lacked the stamina to keep up. And admitted he could have won easily had he still had his Halo. Fat Buu also actually matched Kid Buu despite having 0 chance against Evil Buu.
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It doesn't make sense but it's true for the anime version.
Kid buu is stated to be the strongest a billion times unequivocally ad nauseam by Goku and the literal narrator.
This is supported by post fusion Goku fighting an ultimate gohan who is as strong as the original in only SSJ.
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Some of those a still mistranslations; It's similar to the mistranslation of Beerus not being "As powerful as Buu" when the accurate translation is "Not as Bad/Evil as Buu." Same here, the most accurate translation is "Most dangerous" not "Most Powerful" as stated by Elder Kai. And Goku is just referring to Buu as a whole not Kid Buu's form specifically. In fact, that was the very reason Goku and Vegeta crushed the Potara Earrings was because both of them were confident they could beat Kid Buu without Fusing when Vegeta admitted they had no choice against Buuhan.
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I do not know Japanese; however, the discussions where commonly talked about throughout the numerous DB related threads. And plenty of reliable translators have voiced that "Not as powerful" and "Most Powerful" are not only dubious at best, they're also downright contradictory to what is clearly shown in the series.
Nullflowerblush
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They literally call him "the most powerful, ultimate Majin Boo".
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There's only one statement that says buu is the most dangerous and it's the only one that applies to the manga. The rest of the statements above unequivocally refer to kid buu as the strongest.
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Sorry if this is a lot to ask, but can you link a thread with this evidence?
Nullflowerblush
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Good point.
However, this point is completely thrown out of the window when Goku and Vegeta miraculously gained enough power to compete with Ultimate Gohan and Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks in their normal Super Saiyan forms.
Nullflowerblush
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Like, yes, Buuhan is stronger than Kid Buu, based on logic alone. Super Buu is presented as one of the god-tiers and far above the likes of Goku and Vegeta individually, and Buuhan is several orders of magnitudes above that.
However, Kid Buu is explicitly stated numerous times, by Goku, the narrator, and by supplemental material, to be the strongest of all Buu. Death of the Author does not really apply when three different authors corroborate each other's claims.
However, Kid Buu is explicitly stated numerous times, by Goku, the narrator, and by supplemental material, to be the strongest of all Buu. Death of the Author does not really apply when three different authors corroborate each other's claims.
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Which is why I think it be consistent if we go off what is demonstrated rather than relying on contradictory statements.
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I cannot atm because I have to go to work soon.
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I brought that up, but we agreed on a new Goku key or some shit.
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