DBZ Speed CRT

[Thelastmlg]

Weird, i could've swore he gave a number when he was saying goodbye to kai or something, i'll go check it.

 

[Thelastmlg]

Well couldn't find it, but i also couldn't find a english version, if someone could check it, is on chapters 211 or 212.

Best i found king kai implying he got 91.5 times faster but is hard to say if it is true because of him bein relativistic vs 1 million km and him didn't run 6 months straight.

 

[ByAsura]

Is it this one?

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Is it this one?

Goku being able to traverse Snake Way in two days compared to the six months he needed previously is strongly implying he got MUCH faster than before

Like that would make him 91.5 times faster than before. Even with lowballing, a ten times increase is actually pretty accurate

 

[ByAsura]

If you want to use this logic, King Kai is saying he'd need 2 days to fully traverse 1,000,000 km. He made it back quicker by skipping over sections.

To be exact, they had less than 11 months (over a month faster than Vegeta predicted), and Goku had 158 days left. So he got there in less than 5.8 months.

 

[DBZMLP12345]

Huh, well damn

 

[Thelastmlg]

Is the one i found but not the one i believe exists, because it was goku talking about himself, and i remember him smilling.

 

[SSJRyu1]

OK. So I took the liberty of doing up the blog for the scaling as was discussed here. The majority seem to be in agreement that this scaling is the best option based on the feedback. I included a notes section to help explain some of the less obvious reasoning for the scaling based on what was discussed, but if there are additional notes or edits that the majority want I can of course add them.

DBZ Conservative Speed Scaling

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[ByAsura]

@SSJRyu1 I can give you some more stuff about SSJ being a 50x multiplier.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Guess we could also add that SS2 Gohan and such would be At least 2,980 since at half strength he was equal to Cell.

Though that may be redundant.

 

[ByAsura]

FSS Goku was also far superior to Vegeta and co. at half power.

 

[Qawsedf234]

So we got

• Goku at half power was more than Vegeta's Grade 2 SS1 presumably
• According to Gohan, Cell wasn't fighting Goku "For Real". Though we probably can't quantify that
• SS2 Gohan at half strength was superior to SPC

I can't think of any clear power statements outside of the Potara Earrings, but I don't know if that can even be calculated.

 

[ByAsura]

Nothing that's not based on massive assumptions, from what I can find.

 

[Rikimarox2]

IIRC, all we know that its the power of both dudes, and a tens of times power increase to it. At least, that's what I recall from Vados' statements.

And there was a databook shit about character A's power x Character B's power. Not sure how we can even quantify that.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Unless you want to add the android's speed states to cell when he Absorbs them or make fusions as double speed, cell is probably too speculative? Or else that would have already been done, there's probably a statement about the fusion dance at least adding power somewhere

 

[SSJRyu1]

@ByAsura Yeah if you have more points that further confirm SSJ has a 50x speed multiplier I would love to see them.

 

[ByAsura]

I'll put it on your VSBW message wall, since it's pretty long.

 

[SSJRyu1]

Gotta remember that the wiki is very picky about separating speed and power. So unless they explicitly say he multiplied his speed by a certain amount, or he was only moving at half speed they probably wont accept the additions. I agree that speed and power increases correlate in DB but for example the wiki won't currently accept SSJ2 or SSJ3 multipliers for speed.

 

[Firestorm808]

Yeah, the other SSJ forms would just be "higher."

 

[DBZMLP12345]

So we got

• Goku at half power was more than Vegeta's Grade 2 SS1 presumably
• According to Gohan, Cell wasn't fighting Goku "For Real". Though we probably can't quantify that
• SS2 Gohan at half strength was superior to SPC

I can't think of any clear power statements outside of the Potara Earrings, but I don't know if that can even be calculated.

So it would go something like this?

Ascended SSJ Vegeta (Cell Games) = At least 1,490c

SSJ Goku (Cell Games, Full Power) = At least 2,980c

SSJ2 Gohan (Cell Games) = At least 5,960c

 

[Qawsedf234]

Yeah. Since Vegetables would be above Android Saga Goku and Trunks when he becomes swole. Dabura scales to FPSS1 Goku, but I'm not super confiden he scales to SS2 Cell Games Gohan

 

[KLOL506]

Yeah. Since Vegetables would be above Android Saga Carrot and Trunks when he becomes swole. Dabura scales to FPSS1 Goku, but I'm not super confident he scales to SS2 Cell Games Gohan

FTFY

 

[Firestorm808]

Is Grade 4 SSJ (Mastered) a stronger boost than Grade 2 and 3 SSJ?

 

[Axxtentacle]

SSJ1G4 was stated to have the strength of SSJ1G3, but also the speed and the extra sustainability.

 

[Stefano4444]

Is Grade 4 SSJ (Mastered) a stronger boost than Grade 2 and 3 SSJ?

No, SSj1 Grade 4th has the same power/speed boost as SSj1 Grade 1st, it only consume much less Ki to be maintain.

Goku becoming stronger than Trunks SSj1 Grade 3th was due of his training in the ROSAT, not because he used a more powerful form.

 

[ByAsura]

I'd actually say there is evidence that it's stronger than the standard Super Saiyan (not Grade 2/3), but I'll leave that for later.

 

[DBZMLP12345]

Yeah, I think SSJ Grade 4 is just SSJ Grade 1 Trained to the point where it essentially becomes a 2nd Base form due to how little energy is needed to maintain the form

But that’s all i’ll say for that topic, I don’t want to derail the thread, we just need to focus on getting enough people to come to an agreement with the new Scale

 

[Qawsedf234]

Is Grade 4 SSJ (Mastered) a stronger boost than Grade 2 and 3 SSJ

Its weaker in terms of power multiplication when compared to 2 and 3. But it burns no energy Nd Goku's base got much stronger compared to Vegeta and Trunks.

But SS Grade 3 is much stronger. Cell outright said Ultra Trunks possessed far more power than he did and was capable of killing him, but the heavily reduced speed makes the form basically useless

 

[SSJRyu1]

So do we want to pass this as is, then worry about additional scaling later, or are we thinking that we should try to incorporate the rest of the DBZ manga into the scaling while we are at it? I'm easy either way but I don't want this to get derailed.

 

[Stefano4444]

So do we want to pass this as is, then worry about additional scaling later, or are we thinking that we should try to incorporate the rest of the DBZ manga into the scaling while we are at it? I'm easy either way but I don't want this to get derailed.

Most characters from the Android Saga to the Buu Saga will still ended up at Massively FTL+ via scaling like before.

The only ones who could be debate are Base Goku, Base Vegeta and Base Gohan in the Buu Saga.

Since they are supposted to be far stronger/faster than their Frieza Saga counterpart.

 

[DBZMLP12345]

Yeah, I checked the current profiles, SSJ Goku and 100% Frieza from Namek are currently Low 4-C/Small Star Level+ and FTL+

While the Base Saiyan’s from Buu Saga (Goku, Vegeta and Gohan At Least) are currently 4-C/Star Level and At Least FTL+

Cell Games Base Goku and Gohan are also above Frieza Saga SSJ Goku and 100% Frieza (Which should be obvious since Buu Saga Gohan prior to unlocking his Ultimate form was weaker then he was during the Cell Games)

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I'm not sure when it was stated, if at all, but Cell Games Base Goku should be > Android Saga SSJ Goku

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I'm not sure when it was stated, if at all, but Cell Games Base Goku should be > Android Saga SSJ Goku

Wait, what? Really? When was that stated?

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Wait, what? Really? When was that stated?

I'm not sure actually. That's why I said "if at all"

 

[Nullflowerblush]

SSJ Goku in the Cell Games >>> SSJ Grade 2 Vegeta >>>>>> SSJ Vegeta during Android Saga.
And, seeing as how SSJ is only 50x, the scaling seems to check out.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I'm not sure actually. That's why I said "if at all"

Would be extremely interesting if we can find that statement, if it exists.

 

[DBZMLP12345]

Yeah, if we can get a statement that puts Base Goku from the Cell Games above his Previous SSJ self, then great

 

[DBZMLP12345]

In the Buu Saga we also have Gohan telling Goku and Vegeta not to go SSJ during the Tournament, both were still confident they can win despite people like Piccolo and 18 also participating, both of whom scale FAR above SSJ Goku and Frieza from Namek

During the Finals, 18 fights Mighty Mask (Obviously just Goten and Trunks in disguise), both Goten and Trunks both have to fight in that suit without destroying it (Seems like a bit of a handicap and distraction) and they at least were holding their own against Her and keeping up with her even before going SSJ and both are obviously weaker then Start of Buu Saga Gohan, who is weaker then his Cell Games counterpart, his Cell Games counterpart was then Surpassed by Goku and Vegeta during the Buu Saga


Also, Shin states He and the rest of the Supreme Kai's could one shot Frieza, but he was cautious around Pui Pui, then as we know Vegeta absolutely demolishes and bullies Pui Pui with no diff, later on, Shin is impressed by Base Vegeta's power

 

[Qawsedf234]

Cell Games counterpart was then Surpassed by Goku and Vegeta during the Buu Saga

I think only Goku surpassed Cell Games SS2 Gohan. At least he's the only one with a hard statement.

 

[LordTracer]

I think this might be going a bit too far, maybe we should just take the things we know about for sure, like half power SSJ Goku being above Grade II Vegeta and half power SSJ2 Gohan being able to keep up with Cell, and apply that.

The Buu Saga stuff seems much less solid, and should probably be left to its own thread.