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DBZ Speed CRT

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@Divine I don't get it. Are you for or against SS2 Gohan while he was fighting Dabura?
Qawsedf234 said:
Tbf Vegeta was only confirmed to be stronger than Cell Games Gohan when Majin.

Plus I did note that the form would be without Boo's rage amps, where most of his higher level power comes from and one of the major reasons why Super Boo was so much stronger.
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It is strongly implied that the gap isn't as massive as Vegeta was making it out to be and that he still surpasses Gohan. I'll get proof at home.

I'll address that later, too.
 
Ok. Then the stuff I was going to post probably doesn't matter.

I do agree that Gohan being 50% Buu just doesn't make sense, but I was saying the scaling could work.
 
Well to rephrase my statement. SS2 Gohan provided half the energy needed to revive Buu. So it's very likely it's not even Boo's full strength, just a lower assumpt to get a bare minimum speed thing.
 
Babidi does actually say he'd be brought back at half power.

Edit: There's some weird stuff. It's kind of difficult to determine because Kai doesn't actually know how strong Goku and Vegeta are until later.
 
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LightReinh12345 said:
I saw that I personally believe the Original boast of SSJ2 being 2x above SSJ
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I think it's just 2x but I don't really care to debate cuz it honestly won't change anything. I'll converse with you but the second I have to search something up to prove my point I'm not arguing anymore.
 
DivineAura44 said:
I think it's just 2x but I don't really care to debate cuz it honestly won't change anything. I'll converse with you but the second I have to search something up to prove my point I'm not arguing anymore.
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Lol its very much 2x to me based on the official multipliers & I dont See it being inconsistent at all they were very much surprised by his strength & speed should be at least 2x
 
No that's the problem. I think it was exactly 2 times. Most people think it's more and use it as a way to contradict the Daizenshuu and the other SSJ Transformations.
 
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Except only the Super Saiyan multiplier is mentioned by the Daizenshuu. Everything else comes from the Super Exciting Guide and is contradicted by a lot, like Gohan casually turning a casual stomp around.
 
2x Super Saiyan is conservative if you really think about it. Cell was casually superior to FSS Gohan while holding back a large amount of power. Yet, Gohan stomped not only Perfect Cell at full strength, but he very, very casually one-shot him while he was assuming a form equivalent to Grade 3, though he was a little weakened after healing 3 of his limbs (he was a tad tired, but Imperfect Cell has regrown both limbs and his tail with virtually no power loss, and is far superior to Piccolo).

Cell's forms are frequently shown to be largely the same as Super Saiyan forms, so if Grade 3 is exactly the same then the gap would be gigantic. For example, Trunks was slightly inferior to Vegeta with Grade 2, but Grade 3 Trunks dwarfed a casual Cell that was far superior to Grade 2 Vegeta.

Gohan was also revealed to be holding back a gigantic amount of power, and surpassed Cell with his Ki halved.
 
ByAsura said:
2x Super Saiyan is conservative if you really think about it. Cell was casually superior to FSS Gohan while holding back a large amount of power. Yet, Gohan stomped not only Perfect Cell at full strength, but he very, very casually one-shot him while he was assuming a form equivalent to Grade 3, though he was a little weakened after healing 3 of his limbs (he was a tad tired, but Imperfect Cell has regrown both limbs and his tail with virtually no power loss, and is far superior to Piccolo).

Cell's forms are frequently shown to be largely the same as Super Saiyan forms, so if Grade 3 is exactly the same then the gap would be gigantic. For example, Trunks was slightly inferior to Vegeta with Grade 2, but Grade 3 Trunks dwarfed a casual Cell that was far superior to Grade 2 Vegeta.

Gohan was also revealed to be holding back a gigantic amount of power, and surpassed Cell with his Ki halved.
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Yes, but that's the problem. If you say it's greater than x2 than Daizenshuu becomes unreliable.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Except only the Super Saiyan multiplier is mentioned by the Daizenshuu. Everything else comes from the Super Exciting Guide and is contradicted by a lot, like Gohan casually turning a casual stomp around.
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You already seen my argument and I feel I disproved your point but if you don't think so we can agree to disagree.
 
A lot of it is from the Daizenshuu guides, but then a lot is also created by them. That's why they have the 50x multiplier (something that's insanely consistent with the manga).
 
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ByAsura said:
A lot of it is from the Daizenshuu guides, but then a lot is also created by them. That's why they have the 50x multiplier (something that's insanely consistent with the manga).
Click to expand...
Damn so the 50x multiplier to Goku's post-Zenkai Namek Saga base self really did have its footing in official sources.
 
LightReinh12345 said:
I think its 2x for ss2 but its more for Gohan due to the rage boost on top of that
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The rage isn't counted as SSJ2, but yeah that was my entire logic on it. I don't think the first 3 SSJ's should be discarded because of a whole new anime and a whole new set of transformations.
 
LordTracer said:
Let’s get back on topic, shall we? Does everyone agree with this as the scaling chain for the Android, Cell and Buu Arcs?
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We are discussing the multipliers, also if Gohan is 50% of base Majin Buu. (Which makes no sense as he was fighting SSJ3 Goku pretty evenly.)
Edit: Which would scale is Goku is Double of Kid Buu.
 
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Buu was not fighting Goku evenly, Goku overpowered him by far and at one point, he took a punch from Buu with zero damage. He also consistently deflected Buu’s attacks during their fight.

And I don’t know where you’re getting Gohan being x2 Kid Buu from.
 
DivineAura44 said:
The rage isn't counted as SSJ2, but yeah that was my entire logic on it. I don't think the first 3 SSJ's should be discarded because of a whole new anime and a whole new set of transformations.
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Did I say it counted as ssj2?!? I even explained ssj2 is 2x but Gohan got more than 2x due to that rage
 
LordTracer said:
Buu was not fighting Goku evenly, Goku overpowered him by far and at one point, he took a punch from Buu with zero damage. He also consistently deflected Buu’s attacks during their fight.
Click to expand...
Goku also noted that he was perfectly capable of killing Buu but chose not to do so in order for the next generation to fight their own battles.

As for the Cell/Buu arc numbers afaik no one has argued against any of mine and your placements. Ryu just needs to update his blog with the scans.
 
LordTracer said:
Let’s get back on topic, shall we? Does everyone agree with this as the scaling chain for the Android, Cell and Buu Arcs?
Click to expand...
Looks good to me.

I also agree with Buu not scaling to SSJ3 Goku. Goku was casually keeping up with him, and was clearly superior. This was even confirmed by Goku himself when he said he could've killed him at any time, but chose not for "reasons".
 
LordTracer said:
Buu was not fighting Goku evenly, Goku overpowered him by far and at one point, he took a punch from Buu with zero damage. He also consistently deflected Buu’s attacks during their fight.

And I don’t know where you’re getting Gohan being x2 Kid Buu from.
Click to expand...
KID? I literally repeated BASE, MAJIN Buu. They got it from the Buu egg being 50% charged. Also Buu deflected Goku's attacks as well.
 
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