Dbz manga goku

[elhermanopadre]

@elhermanopadre, please bring the discussion about DB cosmology to my message wall so people don't get upset.

If I care enough I will, I already debunked that, but if you have a problem with that , you can post it in my msg wall,

 

[KingTempest]

If I care enough I will, I already debunked that, but if you have a problem with that , you can post it in msg wall,

You haven't debunked it, and you've restricted your profile so only certain members can see it, so your message wall isn't a thing. It's also at the point where users aren't able to make conversations with you either, so outside of threads, either you contact me or debate over.

 

[Darksmash]

That's your headcanon , it was never saying destroying planets , none of that , it states the universe , so this only implies he would blow up the universe in once or very quickly.

Ironic because you are the one assuming "Threatening" the universe means they can blow it in one attack

 

[elhermanopadre]

You haven't debunked it, and you've restricted your profile so only certain members can see it, so your message wall isn't a thing. It's also at the point where users aren't able to make conversations with you either, so outside of threads, either you contact me or debate over.

Could say the same thing about you. I forgot about the restrictions, I will remove it and if you have a problem with the debate you can post that there and it will continue there if I care enough because I already debunked it here. It's either you contact me , or IDC since I debunked it already and it would just a repeat or it's over

 

[elhermanopadre]

Ironic because you are the one assuming "Threatening" the universe means they can blow it in one attack

There was another statement I posted saying friezer threaten to destroy the universe (it's more obvious in the amine, but since this was manga version only I had to restrain it), those scans were only to show or prove that a character's feats isn't a limitation of what to do , so that I could show that being multi solar system level for this manga Goku is no big deal. Also i'm not assuming anything, the threatening statement is 50/50 , the character can either blow it up in one it or not , so on both sides, there are "assumptions", so you are not in a good place to try to argue about that who is assuming or not.

 

[Darksmash]

There was another statement I posted saying frieze threaten to destroy the universe , those scans were only to show or prove that a character's feats isn't a limitation of what to do , so that I could show that being multi solar system level is no big deal. Also i'm not assuming anything, the threatening statement is 50/50 , the character can either blow it up in one it or not , so on both sides it's assumptions, so you are not in a good place to try to argue about that here.

That freeza statement was a clear hyperbole. Nothing in early DBZ comes close to those levels at all.And no, blowing it in one move is the last thing I would assume from a vague threatening statement. There is no need for assumptions. Such vague statements should be dismissed in favour of clear feats

 

[elhermanopadre]

That freeza statement was a clear hyperbole. Nothing in early DBZ comes close to those levels at all.And no, blowing it in one move is the last thing I would assume from a vague threatening statement. There is no need for assumptions. Such vague statements should be dismissed in favour of clear feats

Prove that. I just explained to you that a feat is not a limitation of what a character can do , the statement extrapolates what he can do that he didn't necessaly need to show in the anime is more obvious, very clear universal statement implications.

.It doesn't matter, you realize its 50/50, it's either destroy it in one shot or not , you are assuming just like me. And no the statement isn't vague , it's clear universal threatening destructions all it needed was a timeframe of if it's one atk.

 

[Darksmash]

Prove that. I just explained to you that a feat is not a limitation of what a character can do . It doesn't matter , you realise its 50/50 , it's ether destroy it in one shot or not , you are assuming just like me.

I would have to check that stuff again, but that's clearly hyperbolic as Even cell only had enough energy to blow up a solar system IIRC

Also that's not how probability works
It's not 50-50
Your sample space has 2 outcomes,destroying it in one move and not destroying it in one move, and you are considering both equally likely

When in truth the former is far far more unlikely than the latter
It would be more like 0.00000....1-99.999...9 than 50-50

 

[elhermanopadre]

I would have to check that stuff again, but that's clearly hyperbolic as Even cell only had enough energy to blow up a solar system IIRC

Also that's not how probability works
It's not 50-50
Your sample space has 2 outcomes,destroying it in one move and not destroying it in one move, and you are considering both equally likely

When in truth the former is far far more unlikely than the latter
It would be more like 0.00000....1-99.999...9 than 50-50

Again prove it's hyperbolic.
It never said it's his full power, it was never once stated, and do you know what? that same cell (from the dbz anime at least) as multiple universal statements. Not to mention if this was his full power, there is no way he could have tried harder with the Kamehameha wave since ssj2 gohan could math him and both of them had to constantly try harder to overpower the other one, so no, you are completely wrong, keep trying again.

Yes, it is, if he threatens to destroy the entire universe, there are two options, destroy it in one shot or not destroy it in one shot.
It wouldn't be, the statement is an extrapolation of what he can do, so, he ethers buste the universe in one atk as it was stated for him to threaten to destroy the universe or not destroy it in one atk. So again, your argument doesn't matter.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

1. They specifically mentioned the DBZ Manga. Why bring the anime to this post?

2. Does Cell or Frieza or whatever showed other feats that are even remotely close to universal? If not, than these statements are hyperboles and outliers

3. You realize a 4-B can destroy everything in the universe overtime right?

 

[elhermanopadre]

1. They specifically mentioned the DBZ Manga. Why bring the anime to this post?

2. Does Cell or Frieza or whatever showed other feats that are even remotely close to universal? If not, than these statements are hyperboles and outliers

3. You realize a 4-B can destroy everything in the universe overtime right?

1) I brought it up to prove that in the amine he can be considered to be this level, I never said he was in this level in the manga.

2) Those statements are extrapolations of what they can do, that they didn't need to or had to show. There is no proof it's hyperbolic, and no proof it's outlier a,l it means, is that they are stronger than what you think.

3) THE 4-B , is only what you or others decided to limit him, just because they says he's only this level because this is only what he showed doesn't mean that's is limit nor his true power nor he cannot accomplish something greater than that.

 

[Darksmash]

@elhermanopadre The two options aren't equally likely
Threatening meaning blowing it up in one move is much less likely than doing it overtime
That's like arguing Goku being 1-A is 50-50 because he either is or he isn't

 

[elhermanopadre]

@elhermanopadre The two options aren't equally likely
Threatening meaning blowing it up in one move is much less likely than doing it overtime
That's like arguing Goku being 1-A is 50-50 because he either is or he isn't

No threatening doesn't necessarily mean blow it up in one shot, just like someone like Vegeta could threaten to destroy the earth and do it in one shot or not in one shot. So it's not "less likely" , it's ether the first option or the second option
And yes, the options are well, the options, it's either he blows it up in one shot or not in one shot, that's very easy to understand.
The false equivalence fallacy, here we go again, for one, in this example you gave, there is no mention of Goku threatening to destroy a outerversal realm or this realm being outerversal, so your "he either is or he isn't" is not only not an argument it's also a fallacy of yours.
Also , I will have to go sleep very soon for now.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

2) Those statements are extrapolations of what they can do, that they didn't need to or had to show. There is no proof it's hyperbolic, and no proof it's outlier a,l it means, is that they are stronger than what you think.

The burden of proof is on you man. You claim that they're "much stronger than we think" and that the statements aren't hyperboles nor outliers.

You also didn't adressed the universe busting issue. Claims like "Character X can destroy the universe" doesn't mean he can do it in a single attack. As even a 4-B character can destroy everything in the universe by destroy every planet and every star in it (Like what Kid Buu does)

 

[elhermanopadre]

The burden of proof is on you man. You claim that they're "much stronger than we think" and that the statements aren't hyperboles nor outliers.

You also didn't adressed the universe busting issue. Claims like "Character X can destroy the universe" doesn't mean he can do it in a single attack. As even a 4-B character can destroy everything in the universe by destroy every planet and every star in it (Like what Kid Buu does)

I already proved my point "the burden of proof" is not an argument. Statements are here to extrapolate what a character can do that weren't shown or needed to be shown.


It doesn't either, he can since it's 50/50, therefore we are both assuming.



Or that this "4-B" as universal power as it was stated to be, or that he has more power than what let to be desired. 4-B is not a limitation, just because I did a thing, doesn't mean this is somehow my max absolute limitation that I cannot do something else that is greater than what it was shown.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

1) You need more than just a single statement to warrent a tier. You need to show it's consistent (meaning if it fits with other powers shown in the series), have other feats to back it up and if it's not a hyperbole.

For example: Super Perfect Cell's statement that he "would destroy the solar system" is accepted because it: Has other feats consistent with the tier (Having several tier 4 feats in the Cell Saga), is shown to be incredibly consistent within all canon materials and guidebooks in DB, and was because of that, proven to NOT be an hyperbole

2) This was explained to you many time and I'll repeat it: Having to possibilities DOES NOT mean it'll have a 50/50 chance of happening.

3) Even if what they scale to isn't their max power, you need to realize that you can be a billion times stronger than a 4-B and still be 4-B because the tier is just that large. Unless you can prove that Goku became more than a billion times stromger than Super Perfect Cell in canon DBZ, then Goku will remain 4-B

 

[elhermanopadre]

1) You need more than just a single statement to warrent a tier. You need to show it's consistent (meaning if it fits with other powers shown in the series), have other feats to back it up and if it's not a hyperbole.

For example: Super Perfect Cell's statement that he "would destroy the solar system" is accepted because it: Has other feats consistent with the tier (Having several tier 4 feats in the Cell Saga), is shown to be incredibly consistent within all canon materials and guidebooks in DB, and was because of that, proven to NOT be an hyperbole

2) This was explained to you many time and I'll repeat it: Having to possibilities DOES NOT mean it'll have a 50/50 chance of happening.

3) Even if what they scale to isn't their max power, you need to realize that you can be a billion times stronger than a 4-B and still be 4-B because the tier is just that large. Unless you can prove that Goku became more than a billion times stromger than Super Perfect Cell in canon DBZ, then Goku will remain 4-B

1) I already proved that. I do not need to prove it's consistent, the statement is consistent in what the character can do, that's just what the character can do , feats are not the and of all.

2) This was also explained to you many times, it,s either blow it up in one shot or not blow it up in one shot. Its one of the other options, that is how it works.

3) No one said, it's only a million times stronger again, headcanon. I do not have to prove that, I already prove above why super perfect cell is multi solar system level and Goku scales from that, the millions of time argument doesn't matter, because he's already that powerful and implied to more powerful that that. You can keep on replying , I will go sleep and I will reply later.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Jesus, this is such a ******* ad nauseam.

1. Yes, you ******* do need to prove that it is consistent. If I have a character with only building level destruction feat, but has a single statement that says he's universal, we're not gonna put him at 3-A. While statements are good evidence for what a character can do, but if there aren't any feats remotely close to the statements, then we consider those statements as either: Outliers, or hyperbole.

2. Yes, it's either blow it up in one shot or not. The problem, if there aren't any feats to back you up, then not blowing it up in one shot is 99.9% more likely than the other option.

 

[Antvasima]

I was asked to close this thread, since it is just circular back-and-forth at this point.

Is it fine if I do so?

https://vsbattles.com/threads/all-purpose-request-thread-new-forum.107534/post-3468437

 

[Rikimarox2]

Yes please. It's massive storm of ad nauseam.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Yep

 

[KingTempest]

Agreed

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.