DBS revisions (please read entire OP)

[ShadowWarrior1999]

"you didn't even address the japanse dictionary defining universe like how we define low 2-C instead of 3-A"

Which really doesn't mean anything. Terms like "world" and "universe" can mean very different things depending on the context. For example, the Amala Network in SMT is called a universe but it's infinitely above baseline 2-A. World generally means planet but plenty of fictions use it to refer to a universe or even a multiverse.

With that being said, either prove space-time is involved or it's just 3-A.

 

[Dragomer]

"you didn't even address the japanse dictionary defining universe like how we define low 2-C instead of 3-A"Which really doesn't mean anything. Terms like "world" and "universe" can mean very different things depending on the context. For example, the Amala Network in SMT is called a universe but it's infinitely above baseline 2-A. World generally means planet but plenty of fictions use it to refer to a universe or even a multiverse.
With that being said, either prove space-time is involved or it's just 3-A.

Yeah for world, no for universe, Universe mean a pretty specific thing when they litteraly show you the goddamn universe but both were used anyway, to the point this very own wiki recognised they were used interchangeably in this context and the freaking dictionary is directly saying it refer to space and time , not just the matter inside the universe so we have no reason to think otherwise, your assumption don't beat a direct definition from the dictionary in term of value in an argument.

SMT isn't dragon ball, if SMT and Saint Seiya were dragon ball, they'd be like 5 tiers lowers given the level of scrutiny DB is under.

Good thing i already proved it then.

With that being said, debunk all those argument that it's low 2-C or it's low 2-C.

 

[Elizhaa]

Any standard Japanese dictionary defines Universe as:

" Õà¿ÒüªÒü«µÖéÚûôÒü¿þ®║ÚûôÒÇüÒüèÒéêÒü│ÒüØÒüôÒü½ÕɽÒü¥ÒéîÒéïÒé¿ÒâìÒâ½Òé«Òâ╝Òü¿þë®Þ│¬ÒÇéÒüéÒéëÒéåÒéïþë®Þ│¬Òéäµö¥Õ░äÒéÆÕîàÕ«╣ÒüÖÒéïþ®║ÚûôÒÇéÒüéÒéëÒéåÒéïþë®õ║ï´╝êµú«þ¥àõ©çÞ▒í）ÒéÆÕɽÒéÇÕà¿ÒüªÒü«Õ¡ÿÕ£¿ÒÇé"

"All time and space, and the energy and matter contained therein. A space that encloses all matter and radiation. Also includes all living creatures and all things.

• Credit to Sera's Universe level Standards crt

In other languages, universe definition can be ambiguous but in Japanese, the universe definition looks to be a standard enough to be Low 2-C.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Whis refers to the entire universe as The gigantic image above. The image is a space time continuum, there's a one meaning to universe in Dragon Ball. Plain and simple guys.

 

[Dragomer]

Whis refers to the entire universe as The gigantic image above. The image is a space time continuum, there's a one meaning to universe in Dragon Ball. Plain and simple guys.

Nah, when they say universe, they mean the dust on earth, obvious they were just going to vaccum clean the whole planete.

 

[The_Causality]

@Elizhaa The Low 2-C Standards for Universe has been rejected in the previous CRT

Even if clearly agree with it.

 

[Dragomer]

@Elizhaa The Low 2-C Standards for Universe has been rejected in the previous CRT
Even if clearly agree with it.

That CRT isn't rejected yet, it's still waiting more input from the OP and they are planning another tier revision in addition at least that's what Antvasima said earlier in the thread IIRC.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

@Dragomer

Actually no, The Causality's right on this one. The Low 2-C standard was rejected. Prove it involves space-time or you're 3-A.

Or maybe, just maybe, SMT and Saint Seiya simply have more sufficient evidence to justify a higher rating than Dragon Ball? Refrain from accusing others of bias simply because you didn't get your way.

The arguments were in fact debunked.

 

[The_Causality]

That CRT isn't rejected yet, it's still waiting more input from the OP and they are planning another tier revision in addition at least that's what Antvasima said earlier in the thread IIRC.

The one which talk about Low 2-C has been rejected yes

The one where we wait more reply is about it's size

 

[Dragomer]

@Dragomer
Actually no, The Causality's right on this one. The Low 2-C standard was rejected. Prove it involves space-time or you're 3-A.

Or maybe, just maybe, SMT and Saint Seiya simply have more sufficient evidence to justify a higher rating than Dragon Ball? Refrain from accusing others of bias simply because you didn't get your way.

The arguments were in fact debunked.

The standards of fusing A-3 and low 2-C was rejected, not the freaking japanese definition dude, you're so desperate, you were silent and when you saw that you jumped on that like you were starving XD.

It was already proven, multiple time, so yeah, Low 2-C, cool and no, i won't be 3-A just because i won an internet argument, chill dude, you're not fighting against the incarnation of dragon ball.

Or maybe, just maybe, it's like i said and i accused no one while you're getting your panties in a bunch ?

Where ? oh yeah, nowhere, you haven't even addressed a single one of them, you didn't even address Zamasu-chan's three line long comment., move along.

 

[HST_Master]

Can we like cut condescension coming from both sides? I can feel it from here.

 

[Dragomer]

That CRT isn't rejected yet, it's still waiting more input from the OP and they are planning another tier revision in addition at least that's what Antvasima said earlier in the thread IIRC.

The one which talk about Low 2-C has been rejected yes
The one where we wait more reply is about it's size

Are we talking about the same one ?

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Whis refers to the entire universe as The gigantic image above. The image is a space time continuum, there's a one meaning to universe in Dragon Ball. Plain and simple guys.

Not exactly, unless you want to say DBZ Frieza is Low 2-C because he's a threat to the universe.

Also, that's Zeno who's the God tier of the verse and can destroy an entire timeline.

 

[Dragomer]

Whis refers to the entire universe as The gigantic image above. The image is a space time continuum, there's a one meaning to universe in Dragon Ball. Plain and simple guys.

Not exactly, unless you want to say DBZ Frieza is Low 2-C because he's a threat to the universe.
Also, that's Zeno who's the God tier of the verse and can destroy an entire timeline.

A threat to the universe =/= a universe buster, also Universe wasn't even used back in the original manga and in my country, they translated it to 'everything' instead of universe.

You're misstaking 1 universe with 1 timeline, dude, the wiki's stand on this is that every universe has it's own space time continuum, if you want to argue that, make your own CRT.

The point is that they use the exact same word they used for Beerus and Goku while showing that.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

I did not mistake a universe for a timeline. I know timelines in DB contain 12 universes.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Can we please stop with the condescending insults on both sides? That's why I said be civil in the OP because these are Dragon Ball threads in a nutshell.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Not exactly, unless you want to say DBZ Frieza is Low 2-C because he's a threat to the universe.

Also, that's Zeno who's the God tier of the verse and can destroy an entire timeline.

You completely missed the point, that's a really dumb analogy. An entire universe is a space time continuum. As the entire universe was shown on screen as a space time continuum. Being a threat to the universe is completely different from being able to destroy it entirely.

 

[Xerkser500]

Any standard Japanese dictionary defines Universe as:
" Õà¿ÒüªÒü«µÖéÚûôÒü¿þ®║ÚûôÒÇüÒüèÒéêÒü│ÒüØÒüôÒü½ÕɽÒü¥ÒéîÒéïÒé¿ÒâìÒâ½Òé«Òâ╝Òü¿þë®Þ│¬ÒÇéÒüéÒéëÒéåÒéïþë®Þ│¬Òéäµö¥Õ░äÒéÆÕîàÕ«╣ÒüÖÒéïþ®║ÚûôÒÇéÒüéÒéëÒéåÒéïþë®õ║ï´╝êµú«þ¥àõ©çÞ▒í）ÒéÆÕɽÒéÇÕà¿ÒüªÒü«Õ¡ÿÕ£¿ÒÇé"

"All time and space, and the energy and matter contained therein. A space that encloses all matter and radiation. Also includes all living creatures and all things.

• Credit to Sera's Universe level Standards crt

In other languages, universe definition can be ambiguous but in Japanese, the universe definition looks to be a standard enough to be Low 2-C.

Like I said above, unless any verse with subbed universal destruction evidence becomes Low 2-C as well, this is not an argument.

Also, im loving how my huge rebuttal reply just got straight up ignored.

 

[SomebodyData]

Tbh, using dictonary definitions as an argument is pretty poor. I've seen these kind of arguments before, but they hardly ever point out connotations or how they're actually used. **Cough cough, dimensions cough**

Case in point, universe often means just the physical space even in Japanese media, espically when you consider DB (Most major antagonists are 'threats to the universe') even back in Z. Unless everyone has space-time manip its pretty clear you gotta use the context in the actual show.

 

[Dragomer]

Any standard Japanese dictionary defines Universe as:
" Õà¿ÒüªÒü«µÖéÚûôÒü¿þ®║ÚûôÒÇüÒüèÒéêÒü│ÒüØÒüôÒü½ÕɽÒü¥ÒéîÒéïÒé¿ÒâìÒâ½Òé«Òâ╝Òü¿þë®Þ│¬ÒÇéÒüéÒéëÒéåÒéïþë®Þ│¬Òéäµö¥Õ░äÒéÆÕîàÕ«╣ÒüÖÒéïþ®║ÚûôÒÇéÒüéÒéëÒéåÒéïþë®õ║ï´╝êµú«þ¥àõ©çÞ▒í）ÒéÆÕɽÒéÇÕà¿ÒüªÒü«Õ¡ÿÕ£¿ÒÇé"

"All time and space, and the energy and matter contained therein. A space that encloses all matter and radiation. Also includes all living creatures and all things.

• Credit to Sera's Universe level Standards crt

In other languages, universe definition can be ambiguous but in Japanese, the universe definition looks to be a standard enough to be Low 2-C.

Like I said above, unless any verse with subbed universal destruction evidence becomes Low 2-C as well, this is not an argument.
Also, im loving how my huge rebuttal reply just got straight up ignored.

A lot of verse should have low 2-C IMO so 'it shouldn't get low 2-C because it mean other verse could use the same argument to be upgraded' isn't an argument.

It was ignored because 1 : It was unreadable, as i have stated.

2 : it didn't actualy rebut anything.

3 : it was basicaly a copy pasta of what we already talked about again and again.

And 4 : let's be honest it was long and given the line by line quoting, responding would be a pain just from formating perspective.

Also yeah, let's act like the definition is the only part of the revision rather than litteraly two lines proposed as supports arguments.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

The whole Buuhan point is irrelevant since it's Anime Filler. The first character to demonstrably affect space-time on a universal scale was Infinite Zamasu which was far ahead of any of our heroes Goku vs Casual Beerus' feat was only 3-A.

So I am against this upgrade.

I maintain my position.

Also, real nice to see that this thread went to shit in true Dragon Ball thread fashion.

 

[Ted_Ed]

Its just a bunch of dragon ball haters that repeat the same debunked arguments over and over.

 

[Ted_Ed]

A lie told a thousand times becomes a truth, aftrr all.

Specially if a certain moderator is against all DB upgrades there in the wiki.

 

[The_Causality]

Oh.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Real maturity right there.

 

[Xerkser500]

>Calls us haters for disagreeing with something

Wew

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@Ted, that's very unnecessary; and you're forgetting the fact that some of us staff members that were against the upgrades actually really like Dragon Ball.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

I don't mean to be rude.... But i think it would be best keep all degratory/mean comments out of this.. it is derailing the thread, and will accelerate this thread being closed..

 

[Ted_Ed]

As expected.

But sure Even if the op has explained just how SSG Goku being 3-A is way too low to be somewhat compared to beerus and how the DB universe has shown to contain separate space times multiple tkmes.

 

[Ted_Ed]

I just see this absolute bias against these kinds of stuff and makes me mad, you know?

 

[Dragomer]

Oh come on, i get a warning and yet Ted Ed does worst while Matthew bait like there is no tommorow and nothing happen, that's bulshit.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

@Ted Ed Oh yeah because disagreeing makes someone a hater. Stop being so petty.

Well this "moderator" is certainly making a lot more sense than the people pushing for an upgrade based on a lack of proper evidence.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

ƒñªƒÅ¢ÔÇìÔÖé´©Å God dammit...

 

[Dragomer]

@Ted Ed Oh yeah because disagreeing makes someone a hater. Stop being so petty.
Well this "moderator" is certainly making a lot more sense than the people pushing for an upgrade based on a lack of proper evidence.

Say the guy on the side who has litteraly 0 evidence for their 'vaccum' claim.

 

[Xerkser500]

This thread should be closed honestly. Literally everything has been refuted and the only arguments against the counters of the upgrade are fueled by insults and ad hominem

And incase I didnt make myself clear, I vehemently disagree with the upgrade as well.

 

[Ted_Ed]

gonna close the thread so the upgrade doesnt happen.


As expected.

 

[Dragomer]

This thread should be closed honestly. Literally everything has been refuted and the only arguments against the counters of the upgrade are fueled by insults and ad hominem
And incase I didnt make myself clear, I vehemently disagree with the upgrade as well.

Litteraly nothing had been refuted.

Don't whine about ad hominem when the worst that happened here was people being obnoxious and you're just as guilty as everyone else here.

Yes, you made yourself very clear, you just didn't provide any evidence for any of the claim you made against the upgrade.

 

[Ted_Ed]

Prove the vacoom claim before trying to claim you are not a hater, that is how grow ups back up their claims.

 

[Dragomer]

Honestly yeah, i got carried away with the obnoxiousness but you can't really say the other guys weren't doing just as bad, even right now, even matthew baited people there.

 

[Elizhaa]

This thread should be closed honestly. Literally everything has been refuted and the only arguments against the counters of the upgrade are fueled by insults and ad hominem
And incase I didnt make myself clear, I vehemently disagree with the upgrade as well.

Not every thing has been refuted. Beerus holding back near infinity was not debunked.