DBS revisions (please read entire OP)

[Stefano4444]

All of that only suggests it's a body of space that's not connected; nothing suggests they aren't contained within the same timeline.

Yes, both Mortal Universe, Afterlife and Kaioshin Realm exist in the same timeline just like all other 12 universes, but you're assuming that because of this destroy one of those universes its only an 3-A feat.

But the problem with this logic is that Mortal Universe, Afterlife and Kaioshin Realm possess their own separated dimensional space, they do not exist in the same dimensional space, this is why people living in the Moral Universe cannot simply fly fast to reach the Afterlife or even interact with the place.

If you really wanted to destroy the 7th Universe by triggering a bomb inside the Mortal Universe, the bomb will need 4th dimensional level of power at minimum of even affect the Afterlife and Kaioshin Realm, as 3th dimensional level of power will only be destroy all the galaxies inside the Mortal Universe.

So basically erase a timeline in the DB is basically erase a small multiverse.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Not yet. The CRT could go either way.

No evidence of space-time being affected?

Yeah it's not happening.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Also everyone please stop bringing up the afterlife. If Goku can teleport to the other realms but not other universes or even Beerus' planet, then they aren't separate space times. Retcons are a thing.

 

[Ted_Ed]

The after life is proof that you need 4d power to bust them.

And aparently, you *can* teleport to other realms, like the kaioshin do with the kaikai technique.

Goku's instant transmissiion just might not have the range, and that does not mean he cannot bust stuff.

What does teleportation have to do with beeing able to destroy stuff anyways?

 

[Xerkser500]

>No, there is no 'two context'

There absolutely is 2 contexts as that's how context in general works. Your taking one word thats being used in 2 completely different situations and connecting them to make those situations one and the same when they aren't.

>Void was used to describe how the universe would be if Beerus and Goku really destroy it

Yes as in destroying everything in the physical universe.

>and Void was then later used to describe a timeless, spaceless void

Which is not only used in the context of a totally different situation than the former, but it is also wrong as I explained. There being "no time and space" is hyperbole. In fact, the word void isnt even used to describe something without Space-Time in the DBverse. Its from the title. "World of Void". If we're going to use titles to try and signify something like this, you might as well argue for Low 2-C SSJ 4 Gogeta because of "Big Bang Kamehameha".

Not to mention, your argument massively assumes that just any void in the DB verse is one without space-time just because the World of Void was stated to be, which is ridiculous.

>and was never used to describe anything else,

See above. 2 different situations where "void" is used, 2 different contexts of the word.

>so you can't claim it mean 'an empty space time continuum' when we all the info we have indicate they meant 'timeless, spaceless void'

And, again, see above. Your making a wild assumption that just because the World of Void doesnt have space-time (it does), any other void in the verse doesn't. Not all voids are suddenly made out to be the exact same thing.

>Hit bring his own time-space thingie with his dimension that is litteraly made of time.

And yet, it worked inside of the void. Wouldn't have happened if there was no time there at all.

>Grand Priest's timer is litteraly just a giant slab of rock he move with his power.

And this is a debunk...how? Clocks are made of metal and glass. Doesnt mean they don't tell time. The fact the timer telled time at all to limit the time of the tournament is what proves there's time in the WoV, what the clock is doesnt debunk what it does.

>Calling something an hyperbole isn't an argument

Then you must be new to vs debating because it very well is an argument. This site uses it and so does many debating platforms. You saying it isnt just because you have no answer for something not being legit is whats not an argument.

>and even if it was, it still has the same result : void is used to mean spaceless and timeless

Which is still false as the WoV does indeed have time and space, and even then, this narrative of "what void means and is used for" only at best applies to the context of the World of Void. Not to any void in the DB verse. That is a wanked and ridiculous assumption with 0 evidence to back it up.

>Actually, Angels all have creation feats

Which are all no where remotely close to the scale of "creating time".

>Grand Priest personally created the entire Tournament of Power arena. Is it that much of a stretch to think he simply created a pocket of space-time for the mortals to fight within?

Yes because, like Shadow already pointed out, its something thats very far beyond simply creating x amount of matter, something very different than creating matter and something that no Angel has ever remotely demonstrated?

This argument soley hinges on "Because Angels created x, its not wrong to assume to they created y", which is very much indeed wrong to assume.

>It was an empty Void yet GP created arena there with everything that a mortal needs to survive. Gravity of their home world for each fighter so they can fight at their best.

Matter and Gravity Manipulation, which has nothing to do with time. And its obvious why he did that because where would the fighters fight?

>Hit using his Toki Tobashi is problably a mistake of Toei or it could also be that GP created time there but not whole void but just the area that they are fighting.

A specific unfounded assumption that literally nothing proves is the case.

>GP timer is not to tell time of the void but to tell what time is left for the tournament to end. He uses task(Whatever he calls it) to determine the time till the tournament to end. If I bring a watch from earth to the WoV it will tell time of Earth not the void.

False equivalency here. The watch would be telling the time of earth and not the void because the watch is from earth and was made with the purpose of telling earth's time. This timer that the Grand Priest made is a timer specifically made for the World of Void, it's not a timer he just pulled out of nowhere, he created it.

It also doesnt matter if the timer was made either for the void or for the tournament, there would be no timer at all if there was no time. That's like saying there's no time running in our world because my timer was used to tell the time of a track race and not time in general.

>The only space that their would be is arena and time would be the same size of the arena.

Once again, another made up assumption that not only has no evidence, but is honestly absurd to think. Time isn't defined as being at any "x size". Thats like saying time in real life is only planet sized because we humans discovered the flow of time after the earth was made.

>It is not an hyperbole. Before the tournament, it was empty and without time. GP came and created something there.

It as a hyperbole as everything proves it to be one. "Before the tournament" is not an excuse to dismiss inconsistency as the World of Void was not even a concept before this arc. And even then, your automatically assuming what GP is saying is legitimate fact when, again, he can simply be exaggerating what he is saying which takes much less assumption than saying "GP came and created something" when he has literally no feats to suggest that conclusion is even reasonable, let alone fact.

 

[Ted_Ed]

What would shaking the infinite world of void mean for a low 2-C SSG Goku?

 

[Stefano4444]

Also everyone please stop bringing up the afterlife. If Goku can teleport to the other realms but not other universes or even Beerus' planet, then they aren't separate space times. Retcons are a thing.

Goku unable to teleport to other universes do not disprove the Afterlife having his own dimensional space.

The Instant Trasmission it limited by the range of Goku's Ki Sensing, the more distance there is and more difficult would be for Goku to locate any source of Ki.

This is the reason why he couldn't directly teleport to New Namek and he needed the help of King Kai to locate the planet, because it was not only very distant but the namekians didn't had anyone powerful enough for Goku to sense from Earth.

So its likely that the distance between universes is simply so massive that the Ki of the habitants couldn't be sensed, the same it could be the case for Beerus's planet.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

What would shaking the infinite world of void mean for a low 2-C SSG Goku?

1) The WoV being infinite is a mistranslation.

2) At best that would be a High 3-A feat. Low 2-C is solely from Infinite Zamasu upscaling.

 

[Ted_Ed]

Low 2-C is based on the OP, Shadow Warrior.

SSG Is already low 2-C.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

@Ted Ed Which is not a Low 2-C feat.

 

[Xerkser500]

Btw Shadow, i'd reccomend messaging more staff to look at this (maybe Cal, Assalt or Somebody) and give their opinion.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

@Xerkser500 Cal also disagrees. He kudos'd Matt.

 

[Dragomer]

Still no two context, one is used to describe how the universe will be and the other is used to describe how the world of void is, the meaning is the same in both, unless you have proof.

Based on what ? nothing ? and any Proof of that ? no ? cool, the actual show disagree and used Void to describe a timeless, spaceless place and nothing else, so your point is still invalid, try again

Once again, read above, no two context desperate cop out unless you have proof that they meant something different the first time and you don't, so once again you are objectively and purely wrong here.

And no, it's still not an hyperbole, try again.

Except it was, on screen, it was canonicaly used to describe that, a timeless, spaceless void and it was given no other definition or use.

Still no two context of the word, still a single definition for void used in-universe and so your argument is still wrong and void meant they'd destroy the space time too.

I am not making any assumption, the world of void has no space nor time, as the show itself directly state, you're the one trying to debunk canon with random 'bu-bu-but muh two context'.

Not all voids are made of the same thing but Void was only used in a single way in canon so when brough up at another point in time, we use that definition to conclude on what they meant, so once again, it would be the same kind of void until proven otherwise because that's all the indication we have.

Once again, Hit bring his own time with his dimension of litteral time, that's how he can use his ability.

It is a debunk, you'd get how if you actualy though about it, Clocks aren't just giant slab of rocks without any mechanism being moved purely through the power of an established reality warper.

No, i am not new, which is why i know your tentative to claim 'muh hyperbol' as an argument is pure nonsense, just whinning about it mean nothing, you have to prove it.

Nope, still not false, your opinion <<<<<< What the show directly and canonicaly say, the world of void has no space nor time.

No, once again, it apply to every usage of the word void until it is explicitly used in another way and it is 100% supported by the only definition of a void we are ever given in the entier dragon ball franchise.

Want to know what has no evidence at all ? not even a shred of one even counting the video game ? that dragon ball ever used 'void' to describe an empty universe with an intact space time, that absolutly never happened, there is no such definition of void given anywhere.

And once again, don't do the line by line quoting shit, it just add to the bulk of the comments.

 

[Ted_Ed]

Kudoing people does not mean agreement.

And OP has not beed debunked yet at all.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

@Dragonmer

Those are two different scenes with no relation to one another. You cannot use the World of Void as an argument for "Goku and Beerus would destroy the space-time" when nothing indicates that. Turning the universe into an empty void is the equivalent of turning it into a vacuum.

He doesn't have to prove a negative. You have to prove that space-time would be destroyed. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Also here, asking him to prove a negative.

Argumentum ad nauseam.

If something doesn't remotely demonstrate the qualities it's stated to have, then yes it's hyperbole.

More argumentum ad nauseam.

Even more argumentum ad nauseam.

WOV not having time and space is blatantly contradicted.

Not how burden of proof works.

And it wouldn't have worked if the WoV lacked time.

How do you explain low tiers like Krillin being able to move in it then?

Argumentum ad nauseam yet again.

Which again is blatantly contradicted by the visual evidence.

And the last two, just more argumentum ad nauseam.

 

[Ted_Ed]

Memeing is not an argument.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

We don't use Saiyan Multipliers used by the Kaizen Chuu. Been discussed countless times...

He only mentioned Super Saiyan and Kaio-Ken. Both of their multipliers are accepted by the wiki.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

1) The WoV being infinite is a mistranslation.

Really? I've never heard of this before. Do you have any sources that explain this?

 

[Dragomer]

It's not two context, both statement refer to a void, one about a void that would be created in place of the universe and the other a long established void.

Yes, i totaly can use it, Void can mean both so to judge what they meant, we use how they defined it when using it another moment to decide which definition they meant and here they clearly meant 'timeless and spaceless void' not 'matterless void'.

No, it isn't, provide evidence of your definition of the word ever being used, i already provided mine with the world of void.

It isn't a negative, he affirm it use one of the two possible definition for void while i affirm it use the other, i provided proof with the world of void now it's his turn.

No, extraordinary claim don't need extraordinary proof, that's pure nonsense, all you need to proof something like gravity is litteraly drop something and i already provided multiple evidence while all you said is 'no, it's not'.

Asking him to prove that they meant 'turn into into a matterless universe but with intact space-time' isn't asking him to prove a negative.

Bulshitenum cop-outum, using a term in lating isn't an argument.

Good thing that nothing indicate that it doesn't have the property of being timeless and spaceless because there are no objective mesure of that then and once again, even if it's an hyperbole, it's the definition they used that is important, nothing else.

More non argument cop out trying sound smart.

Yes it would have, obviously if you bring your own freaking mini space time and pocket dimension, you'll be able to use whatever ability you need them for, that's like saying space isn't a vaccum because we can astronaut with oxygene tank there.

More non argument.

Even more non argument.

Prove it, i already addressed all your supposed 'contradiction'.

It's totaly how burden of proof works, we both made claims, i brought evidence, he didn't.

Once again, nothing say that and logic say that it's how it works.

Where was it ever established that you needed to be hight tier to survive in a timeless spaceless place in DB ? absolutly nowhere, even in the timeless spaceless place erased by Zen'o himself, casual base Goku and Trunks could move with no issue.

non argument yet again.

It's still isn't, as i'v already explained it again and again, just repeating 'it's not' isn't an argument.

The last one is just another non argument.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Really? I've never heard of this before. Do you have any sources that explain this?

Sera brought this up a while back.

 

[The_Causality]

1) The WoV being infinite is a mistranslation.

Really? I've never heard of this before. Do you have any sources that explain this?

The perfect Translation of this is "A world without time and space, filled with only eternity and emptiness."

 

[Dragomer]

1) The WoV being infinite is a mistranslation.

Really? I've never heard of this before. Do you have any sources that explain this?

Wasn't the translation confirmed by Herms anyway ? we pretty much always take his word over other people's when it come to translation.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

The perfect Translation of this is "A world without time and space, filled with only eternity and emptiness."

Wait. How can it lack time and space but also be filled with 'eternity'? Doesn't that contradict itself?

 

[The_Causality]

Wait. How can it lack time and space but also be filled with 'eternity'? Doesn't that contradict itself?

Beerus Mean that the place stay Unchanged and Eternal because it lack time and space, nothing less nothing more.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

@Dragonmer

And of course, nothing new is brought to the table. You keep bringing up the same points that were already refuted.

Goku and Trunks moving after Zeno erased the timeline is an outlier.

 

[Dragomer]

@Dragonmer
And of course, nothing new is brought to the table. You keep bringing up the same points that were already refuted.

Goku and Trunks moving after Zeno erased the timeline is an outlier.

And of course you don't provide your own argument nor proof, because you don't have any.

Refuted where exactly ? nowhere, you repeating 'it's not' isn't a refutation.

It isn't an outlier, it's perfectly consistent with everyone else moving in the world of void, that's just how DB treat timeless, spaceless void.

 

[Ted_Ed]

ShadowDragon is just trolling at this point.

His points have been debunked and refuted long ago.

 

[Akreious]

Is there actual evidence that destroying the universe refers to turning it into a vacuum? Like, the actual kanji for it? I've been running around and I have yet to see the kanji for Vacuum or similar yet.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Don't accuse other users of trolling just because they disagree with you.

 

[Xerkser500]

>Still no two context, one is used to describe how the universe will be and the other is used to describe how the world of void is, the meaning is the same in both, unless you have proof.

Except there is 2 context because the universe and the World of Void are NOT the same thing. That is the problem. The context of what the universe would end up as =/= the context of what the World of Void is. Thus, "void" is being used in different contexts in different situations.

The burden of proof is on you to prove Beerus and Goku would have turned the universe into something akin to the World of Void, otherwise its pure speculation and wank to take what "void" was meant for something else and apply it to this particular situation.

>Based on what?

Based on it being called a "vaccum of nothingness", vaccum meaning a space devoid of matter. So now you need to prove that "void" in the context of this case is the same as the context of the World of Void's case instead of just assuming it is.

>and any Proof of that ? no ? cool, the actual show disagree and used Void to describe a timeless, spaceless place and nothing else, so your point is still invalid, try agai

First of all, stop with the attitude. You were called out on this before to drop it and debate this civilly. I am doing that and you need to as well.

Second of all, I dont care what the "show disagrees with" because the show is going off of hyperbole. And we know its hyperbole because of the blatant contradictions against it being a "timeless and spaceless void". So hiding behind what the show says doesnt help you because they are wrong.

Third, the show doesnt even describe "voids" being without time and space. It's describing the World of Void being without time and space, not voids in general. And its wrong anyway because of the evidence going against the WoV being timeless and spaceless. What the World of Void is =/= all other voids, stop assuming they are.

>Once again, read above, no two context desperate cop out unless you have proof that they meant something different the first time and you don't, so once again you are objectively and purely wrong here.

And see above again. They are 2 different situations using "void" in 2 different contexts. And thats pushing it since the only justification for "void" being described without space-time is going off of the name "World of Void". And like I pointed out before, unless you want a Low 2-C SSJ4 Gogeta because of "Big Bang Kamehameha", it should be clear on why using titles as arguments is bullshit and this is no different. Even if it was, it still doesn't mean a thing.

And I don't know why your saying "cop out" like context doesn't matter. When it absolutely does and anyone on this wiki would tell you the same thing.

>And no, it's still not an hyperbole, try again.

"And no" is not an argument. Prove its not hyperbole then. Or else it is.

>Except it was, on screen, it was canonicaly used to describe that, a timeless, spaceless void and it was given no other definition or use.

No it wasn't. The show never used anything akin to "a void is a timeless, spaceless void." The show instead says that the World of Void is a timeless, spaceless void, clearly saying that only the World of Void is timeless and spaceless, not any void in the verse in general. Meaning, this applies only to the context of the World of Void.

And even then, the statement is bullshit because evidence proves the World of Void itself has time and space and is indeed not without either.

>Still no two context of the word, still a single definition for void used in-universe and so your argument is still wrong and void meant they'd destroy the space time too.

And i'll again say read above because there is 2 contexts of the word. The void in Beerus and Goku's case is not the same thing as the World of Void. 2 different situations, therefore 2 different contexts of "void". Simple as that.

>I am not making any assumption, the world of void has no space nor time, as the show itself directly state, you're the one trying to debunk canon with random 'bu-bu-but muh two context'.

Because, like I said above, context matters for a reason and we arent going to discard it just so one verse gets a free pass.

Anyway, you are making an assumption because your argument assumes that just because the World of Void is stated to lack time and space (which is also wrong for the 10th time), any other void in the verse lacks time and space too. Like in Beerus and Goku's situation of destroying the universe. And thats bullshit.

>Not all voids are made of the same thing but Void was only used in a single way in cano

For the World of Void, not voids in general. So again, "timeless and spaceless" only applies to the context of the World of Void. You can't treat another situation as having the same context without explicit evidence.

>so when brough up at another point in time, we use that definition to conclude on what they meant, so once again, it would be the same kind of void until proven otherwise because that's all the indication we have.

See above. The "definition" was never generalized whatsoever, it was used specifically for the World of Void. And its still wrong because of evidence debunking it lacking time and space when it indeed does have time and space.

So for the 100th time, dont take what void meant in one context and apply to another to treat them the same when they are not the same. They are different.

>Once again, Hit bring his own time with his dimension of litteral time, that's how he can use his ability.

Yes and how would a dimension of literal time be able to exist, let alone operate, in a place where time is non-existent? It can't. So the fact that it can work in the World of Void proves that the World of Void is indeed a place where time exists.

I dont care what the ability is, what actually matters is the portrayl of it. Hit would never be able to actually use a stored amount of time in a place where time doesnt exist.

>It is a debunk, you'd get how if you actualy though about it, Clocks aren't just giant slab of rocks without any mechanism being moved purely through the power of an established reality warper.

And again, this is completely irrelevant. A clock can be made of metal, glass, fire, plastic, literally anything and it doesn't take away from the actual purpose it serves. It's purpose is to tell time, no matter what its made out of and that's exactly what Grand Priests clock did. Again, what something is doesn't influence what its purpose is.

>No, i am not new, which is why i know your tentative to claim 'muh hyperbol' as an argument is pure nonsense, just whinning about it mean nothing, you have to prove it.

And its a good thing it is proven. Hits time abilities working, GP's clock working, a time-limit on the tournament, they are all evidence of the void not lacking time. So claiming hyperbole when there's reason behind it is absolutely not nonsense. Now its your job to prove its not and you've failed wholefully at that at this point.

>Nope, still not false, your opinion <<<<<< What the show directly and canonicaly say, the world of void has no space nor time.

And what is shown >>>>>> what the show says, which is exactly what my "opinion" is based on. So not false in the slightest. What a show says is not absolute.

>No, once again, it apply to every usage of the word void until it is explicitly used in another way and it is 100% supported by the only definition of a void we are ever given in the entier dragon ball franchise.

And for the 100th time, again, its not the definition of a void in DB. It's the definition of what the World of Void specifically is, which is also wrong evidence proves that its wrong, so this doesnt even apply to anything. But even if it could, it only applies to the World of Void, nothing more.

Your point here is to literally ignore all context because you want all usages of a word (Which comes from a title not to mention) to be exactly the same for the sake of an upgrade, which is absolutely ridiculous.

>Want to know what has no evidence at all ? not even a shred of one even counting the video game ? that dragon ball ever used 'void' to describe an empty universe with an intact space time, that absolutly never happened, there is no such definition of void given anywhere.

Except what the Old Kai says in response to Beerus and Goku's clashing. That they'd turn the universe into a "A Vaccum of Nothingess", vacuum meaning exactly that. Space devoided of all matter.

And even then, there's no definition of "void" meaning timeless and spaceless either, the only description of this is for the World of Void, which once again, is proven wrong.

 

[Dragomer]

Once again, stop with line by line quoting, it's unreadable and make your comment longer than it has to be, do your comment properly goddamit, i make an effort to be readable, be civil enough to do the same.

Also with your vaccum stuff, don't tell me you got into that argument not knowing the vaccuum thing was a misstranslation of Void ? seriously ?

 

[Xerkser500]

It isn't an outlier, it's perfectly consistent with everyone else moving in the world of void, that's just how DB treat timeless, spaceless void.

Thats...exactly why its a huge outlier. And for obvious reason.

Unless you seriously expect us to believe Infinite Speed Roshi, Tien, Krillin, or even Chi-Chi and Bulma, and literally everyone and their mother, are infinite speed. Because im telling you now that this will never get accepted under any circumstance.

 

[Dragomer]

It isn't an outlier, it's perfectly consistent with everyone else moving in the world of void, that's just how DB treat timeless, spaceless void.

Thats...exactly why its a huge outlier. And for obvious reason.
Unless you seriously expect us to believe Infinite Speed Roshi, Tien, Krillin, or even Chi-Chi and Bulma, and literally everyone and their mother, are infinite speed. Because im telling you now that this will never get accepted under any circumstance.

You don't know what an outlier is if you think a feat coherent with previous and future feats is an outlier.

I litteraly already explained that, do you even read what i write or do you just quote it and then parrot your nonsensical copy pasta about context ?

It isn't about it giving them infinit speed, it's about it being just treated as something everyone can survive in in dragon ball so you can't 'muh Krillin' as an argument to say it's not a spaceless and timeless void cause we already saw completly powered down characters being fine in an accepted and confirmed timeless and spaceless void.

 

[Xerkser500]

Once again, stop with line by line quoting, it's unreadable and make your comment longer than it has to be, do your comment properly goddamit, i make an effort to be readable, be civil enough to do the same.
Also with your vaccum stuff, don't tell me you got into that argument not knowing the vaccuum thing was a misstranslation of Void ? seriously ?

Oh I didnt know you were the boss of me.

My counters are perfectly readable, stop making excuses just because its a long reply. And again, stop with the condescending attitude.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Is there actual evidence that destroying the universe refers to turning it into a vacuum? Like, the actual kanji for it? I've been running around and I have yet to see the kanji for Vacuum or similar yet.

" "The universe becoming an empty void" definitely doesn't sound like space-time destruction, just the universe becoming a vacuum with its space-time still intact. "

I think his argument is that it doesn't sound enough like space-time destruction.

 

[Dragomer]

Once again, stop with line by line quoting, it's unreadable and make your comment longer than it has to be, do your comment properly goddamit, i make an effort to be readable, be civil enough to do the same.
Also with your vaccum stuff, don't tell me you got into that argument not knowing the vaccuum thing was a misstranslation of Void ? seriously ?

Oh I didnt know you were the boss of me.
My counters are perfectly readable, stop making excuses just because its a long reply. And again, stop with the condescending attitude.

Being the boss of you =/= basic civility, that's the very reason we have a 'don't quote walls of text' rule and other such rules, it's for basic civility.

No, they aren't, half of it is my own comment and it's basicaly two lines of mine, two lines of yours, it's a mess to read.

I'm not being condescending, i'm just being baffled at you getting into an argument without knowing the basis for it.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

@Dragomer

He's addressing the points you made and offering a direct rebuttal to each of them. Also you complain about quoting large walls of text when that's exactly what you were doing when responding to my comments.

"It's a mess to read", he highlighted your points in bold, it's so easy.

Anyways this is derailing. You still haven't given any proper refutes to the arguments against the upgrade.

 

[Dragomer]

@Dragomer
He's addressing the points you made and offering a direct rebuttal to each of them. Also you complain about quoting large walls of text when that's exactly what you were doing when responding to my comments.

"It's a mess to read", he highlighted your points in bold, it's so easy.

Anyways this is derailing. You still haven't given any proper refutes to the arguments against the upgrade.

I quoted so i could respond comfortably and then deleted the quoting once i considered it reached wall of text level. Also he could just full quote what i said and it would be easier to read than the line by line quoting., since he seems so obsessed with making adding useless bulk to his comment;

No, it's not, it's a mess to read.

Except i did, again and again, also sorry but 'arguments' ? baseless 'muh context' and 'Void = perfectly fine space time continuum' aren't argument, you'll be able to call them that when you're able to actualy provide evidence for your interpretation of 'Void'.

Meanwhile, DBS only has one definition of Void and it goes against your idea.

What's more the 'void' thing isn't even the important part of the upgrade and youy didn't refute any of the argument in favor of the upgrade nor the OP itself, you didn't even address the japanse dictionary defining universe like how we define low 2-C instead of 3-A

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Yeah, you repeated that ad-nauseam. I am going by the interpretation that requires less assumptions. The universe "becoming an empty void" doesn't remotely imply space-time being busted, so instead it's more reasonable for it to refer to "the universe will become a vacuum with the space-time still there." You keep using the World of Void as an example when it's completely unrelated and assume that because it has "void" in the name then that means Goku and Beerus were going to destroy space-time when there's no evidence supporting it.

 

[Dragomer]

Yeah, you repeated that ad-nauseam. I am going by the interpretation that requires less assumptions. The universe "becoming an empty void" doesn't remotely imply space-time being busted, so instead it's more reasonable for it to refer to "the universe will become a vacuum with the space-time still there." You keep using the World of Void as an example when it's completely unrelated and assume that because it has "void" in the name then that means Goku and Beerus were going to destroy space-time when there's no evidence supporting it.

Yeah, you repeated your non argument.

Nope, you're going by the interpretation that require the most assumption, It require assuming they don't follow the japanese definition of 'universe' when talking about the universe being destroyed, that how they use 'void' in the only other instance of the whole franchise is the exact opposed to what they meant when making the universe statement, that they meant a purely material destruction of the universe despite the shockwave reaching place not material connect at all (and you can't just destroy black holes without destroying space time anyway), that Beerus was excited fighting Goku twice despite Goku being litteraly infinitely weaker than him etc, that's a shit lot of assumption compared to 'just follow what is canonicaly said' + follow the Japanse definition of universe.

Once again, the world of void is related, those are litteraly the only two instance of the word and both just so happen to be closely related to both 'universe' and 'space and time', saying it isn't related is delusional.

Except the evidence of Universe including space time in the very definition of 'universe' in japanese, the whole 'Goku's power would be equaly irrelevant to Beerus even as Super Saiyan God so he would have no reason to be excited', the whole space time continuum being shown when it's mentionned that for exemple Zeno would destroy the universe etc, that's actualy a shit load more evidence than you have which ammount to....litteraly and absolutly nothing.

Also it's funny how you suddenly act like it's all 'assumption' and bad despite the anti-upgrade side was the first one to try and play the 'extrapolation' card, which basicaly just mean 'my own assumption that i find legitimate'.