DBS Manga Speed

[Axxtentacle]

The Calc was already evaluated and accepted, you can't just dump it becouse you don't feel like it.

Otherwise, we would have to downgrade DBS Anime too......

So there aren't much options to pick.

Accept it or downgrade DBS Anime.

Pick one

Just because the math behind the travel speed of the shockwaves is right doesn't mean people can't argue against the scenario.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Why not?

It's created from their own powers clashing. The shockwave that was created was travelling without a medium which does not obey how shockwaves work. It was created through their own energy. That shockwave was also not destroying anything while it was propagating despite having universal attack potency. This leads me to believe that it wasn't just a byproduct of two universal powers clashing, furthermore, this shockwave thing is not consistent despite beyond universal characters clashing later on. The only time this happens again is when Goku and moro clash.

 

[Damage3245]

It's created from their own powers clashing. The shockwave that was created was travelling without a medium which does not obey how shockwaves work.

Fiction showing shockwaves not working as we'd expect in reality... Sounds about right.

Being created by their fists/energy clashing doesn't mean the characters themselves are that fast.

That shockwave was also not destroying anything while it was propagating despite having universal attack potency.

That could easily be PIS.

This leads me to believe that it wasn't just a byproduct of two universal powers clashing, furthermore, this shockwave thing is not consistent despite beyond universal characters clashing later on. The only time this happens again is when Goku and moro clash.

Or it's just more inconsistency.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

The shockwave behaving in a manner that contradicts how real world physics work doesn’t really prove anything.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Also Kiai is explicitly a Ki technique, no? Can Dragon Ball characters not just punch each other and the force of it make a shockwave without the shockwave being specifically a ki technique...?

This argument "they scale to shockwaves" is inherently deceitful because you're not specifying that they scale to ki shockwaves. Something just having a lot of force behind it can create a shockwave without necessarily having to go at the speed of said shockwave. The shockwave could be fast and the thing making it could be fast, but the speeds don't necessarily have to be the same, no?

It's created from their own powers clashing. The shockwave that was created was travelling without a medium which does not obey how shockwaves work. It was created through their own energy.

Or it's just fiction being fiction. Why would Goku and Beerus be sending out Kiai shockwaves with their punches? Ki users enhance themselves physically but they don't intentionally send out shockwaves around them with every attack.

That shockwave was also not destroying anything while it was propagating despite having universal attack potency.

I mean, it was shaking things which was threatening to destroy them.

This leads me to believe that it wasn't just a byproduct of two universal powers clashing, furthermore, this shockwave thing is not consistent despite beyond universal characters clashing later on. The only time this happens again is when Goku and moro clash.

the only time this happens again is when Goku and Moro clash

So this just proves it's an inconsistent thing, solely done to be cool or showcase powerlevels like in Beerus and Goku's case. Because dozens of clashes of beyond universal characters happened before this and there was no shockwave. This doesn't really prove any point as to speed scaling though.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Hm, dammit. I'm not sure anymore. Does anybody else have an argument for why they should scale?

 

[Quantu]

I always found it flimsy at best tbh, plus I actually thought it was already rejected since we scale the anime from the energy ball's potential explosion anyway, and the fact that Chou was not immediately scaled from the shockwaves (even after a few years)

 

[Axxtentacle]

Hm, dammit. I'm not sure anymore. Does anybody else have an argument for why they should scale?

The only other potential argument I could come up with (trust me, I tried) was the possibility of an object moving fast enough to make a shockwave but that's not what it is. It's 2 objects colliding and the impact creating a shockwave, so while the fists were likely moving quickly there's no way to scale them to the shockwave So, sadly, I don't think this one passes.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Alright thanks.

The DBS manga currently only uses DBZ values and this shockwave speed scaling very clearly isn’t going through, so have any of Chou’s notable speed feats been calculated?

• SSJB Goku fires a Kamehameha that exits the Nameless Planet and travels across the Super Dragon Balls (each of which have a confirmed diameter of 37,196.2204 kilometers). Hit reacts to this attack | Chapter 13
• Piccolo tags a fleeing spaceship | Chapter 52
• Jiren crossed an interplanetary distance faster than a spaceship could | Chapter 30
• Beerus and Whis fly to from Beerus’ planet to King Kai's planet and then to Earth | Chapter 2
• Champa and Vados fly from an unknown point in tbe living world to the Kaiōshin Realm | Chapter 3
• Beerus and Champa quickly fly between interplanetary distances while engaging in combat | Chapter 6
• Whis flies from Beerus’ planet to Earth in an hour | Chapter 27

I will calculate what I can and try to get stuff applied. I refuse to let dragon ball remain at 1080 c.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Doesn't seem insane at all to me.

I'm against this upgrade since it seems largely to be a pure assumption.

I assume you intend to make a CRT to debunk the exact same feat from the Anime, right? Since it's literally the same thing.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

The DBS manga currently only uses DBZ values and this shockwave speed scaling very clearly isn’t going through, so have any of Chou’s notable speed feats been calculated?

• SSJB Goku fires a Kamehameha that exits the Nameless Planet and travels across the Super Dragon Balls (each of which have a confirmed diameter of 37,196.2204 kilometers). Hit reacts to this attack | Chapter 13
• Piccolo tags a fleeing spaceship | Chapter 52
• Jiren crossed an interplanetary distance faster than a spaceship could | Chapter 30
• Beerus and Whis fly to from Beerus’ planet to King Kai's planet and then to Earth | Chapter 2
• Champa and Vados fly from an unknown point in tbe living world to the Kaiōshin Realm | Chapter 3
• Beerus and Champa quickly fly between interplanetary distances while engaging in combat | Chapter 6
• Whis flies from Beerus’ planet to Earth in an hour | Chapter 27

Also, Gas new feat is MFTL+, and has been calculated already.
there's also Piccolo's MFTL+ feat which was accepted, and has a CRT on it, but it died down because no one gave a shit

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Wait, I literally calculated Piccolo tagging a spaceship already, it currently has a CRT on it, why isn't it applied yet?

 

[Dalesean027]

I assume you intend to make a CRT to debunk the exact same feat from the Anime, right? Since it's literally the same thing.

It's not lol

Also I wanna note the anime speed is based on Goku and Beerus’ energy creating a ki sphere that would engulf the universe upon exploding, not the shockwaves.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

It's not lol

And the same isn't the case for the manga because...?

 

[Quantu]

The shockwave feat isn't used for the anime bro

ninja'd

 

[JirensMom]

And the same isn't the case for the manga because...?

We scale them off the super dense energy ball they created


Which Beerus reacted to and nullified it

 

[Dalesean027]

And the same isn't the case for the manga because...?

That the manga feat wasn't ki based so they scale to it ig

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

And the same isn't the case for the manga because...?

Universe busting super dense energy ball is anime-only, all the manga has is the shockwaves.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Piccolo reacts to a ship. (11000c)

Evidence SSJ Vegeta, and SSJ Goku should scale to it.

Piccolo has trouble with Universe 9 NPC 1's strength
Piccolo can't overpower the weaker U9 NPC 2
Frost overpowers said NPC 1, and defeats NPC 2 at the same time
SSJ Goku casually blocks Frost, and Freeza states he is too much for him to handle

This is decent for non-god level characters

 

[GodlyCharmander]

Universe busting super dense energy ball is anime-only, all the manga has is the shockwaves.

Toyotaro really ****** this up.

 

[Golden_Void]

They throw a punch at each other, and the force of their fists colliding results in a mighty shock wave. They did not throw a punch at each other, then expel their Ki in order to produce ultra-powerful Kiai to attempt to telekinetically repel each other like Anakin and Obi-Wan or something.

My only issue with this is that Goku is not this strong without the use of ki, as the physical body has limits. Therefore the creation of the shockwaves is due to the body being amplified by ki. Whether or not the effect happened before or after does not matter when the feat could not be done if ki was removed from the equation.

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

if their ki was removed from the equation, they'd be dead

 

[thetechmaster36]

Yeah, I'm disagreeing with this upgrade now. I don't really see why they should scale to the shockwaves. It's a side-effect of their fists clashing together; it happens simply because their power is enough to destroy the universe, not because they're creating them intentionally. I don't see why they should scale to something they created involuntarily.

Edit: Oh wait Null ninja'd me long before I said this LMAO

 

[GodlyCharmander]

... Yep, you drive a hard bargain. I disagree with this.

 

[StekFence]

Goku slow fra

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

Gunning against this feat at this point

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

do we have proof by scans that they outpaced the shockwaves, rather than simply weren't effected by them?

 

[The_Legendary_Vin]

I read through, and you notice how their wrapped in a ki aura? the shockwaves might not have posed a risk to them at all, as it's the force of their auras colliding, as well as physical strength, rather than

"Because A happened at point X, A must also have happened at point Y"

 

[Axxtentacle]

My only issue with this is that Goku is not this strong without the use of ki, as the physical body has limits. Therefore the creation of the shockwaves is due to the body being amplified by ki. Whether or not the effect happened before or after does not matter when the feat could not be done if ki was removed from the equation.

...what in the world? Amping yourself physically with power = you scale to the speed of a shockwave that you and someone else's fists clashing created? Because you both do that? That is just flat out random.

 

[Swerzye29038]

Read

This isn't a response

This is a false analogy. That is not the same as punching so hard to create a shockwave of energy that can travel in the vacuum of space without a medium at beyond light speeds.

The medium in which a wave can travel has nothing to do with the situation at hand.

They are a result of their energy

Um, yes, that's what a shockwave is. It's a release of energy. However, That does not mean that a character scales to the speed of a shockwave in a fictional setting unless it's stated/heavily hinted at or shown visibly.

The Calc was already evaluated and accepted, you can't just dump it becouse you don't feel like it.

This would be like saying demonbane is still tier 0 because it was previously "evaluated and accepted". Likewise, things can be re-evaluated and denied.

Even without the shock waves, though, they would scale higher, regardless, since Beerus reacted to and nullified an even faster explosion of light later.

Can I see a clip of Beerus doing this?

 

[Dalesean027]

Can I see a clip of Beerus doing this?

How about just got to the relevant profiles it's on there to get in full depth

 

[Lightning_XXI]

So since two most notable speed feats involve either reacting to a space ship or stating that "flying is faster", why don't we gather every space ship feat to decide a minimum speed and scale the characters that reacted to them or surpassed them ? That would also help in future feats

 

[KLOL506]

Even without the shock waves, though, they would scale higher, regardless, since Beerus reacted to and nullified an even faster explosion of light later.

So wait, why would we downgrade the anime if Beerus reacted to an ever faster explosion down the line?

 

[KLOL506]

Universe busting super dense energy ball is anime-only, all the manga has is the shockwaves.

****. THAT SCREWS UP THE THREAD.

 

[GodlyCharmander]

****. THAT SCREWS UP THE THREAD.

Exactly.


Also, lowkey, can you like, give input on this MFTL+ DBS Manga CRT? Cuz this one ain't going anywhere.

Lowkey need some staff input.

 

[KLOL506]

Exactly.


Also, lowkey, can you like, give input on this MFTL+ DBS Manga CRT? Cuz this one ain't going anywhere.

Lowkey need some staff input.

Done.

 

[Myguy]

they should scale because im biased

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

This thread can be closed. I'm sorry, I failed.

 

[Damage3245]

Okay, closing the thread.