DBS Manga Resistance Additions

[TiltedFN]

Hello everyone. This should be a relatively simple crt. This thread will aim to give Ultra Instinct users a resistance to power mimicry. There's a couple reasons why this would be the case so I'll go over them.

First off, we have to establish what Ultra Instinct does. As a battle goes on, the body toughens itself up automatically to compensate for his opponent. Moro's body also started to swell over and over again until he got much bigger; it was all to sustain that Angel power. This eventually causes Goku to call this out and tell Moro to get rid of Merus' Angel abilities, or be destroyed by them. This is also back up by Moro becoming one with the planet. He made the Earth his body to hold the Angel energy inside of him, and even then it wouldn't have been enough as stated by whis. In fact, the energy was so much, to the point that the universe would have been destroyed just from the power alone detonating. Goku states that he only mastered the technique after honing his body to withstand it. And as we've seen, not even the earth is enough to hold the power. Not nearly.


With all this in mind, I think a resistance to power mimicry should be warranted here. If your body has not gone through the harsh and extensive training that Goku has, you will not be able to wield Ultra Instinct itself, and will eventually end up dying. This would naturally mean that even characters on the level of Goku would die trying to replicate this technique because of the nature of Angel power. This happens to Moro despite being used to absorbing power to amp himself all the time; yet for Angel power it's much different due to its Nature. Relatively simple.



Agree:

Neutral:

Disagree:

 

[StarShooter80]

Agree ofc

 

[Shar122]

Looks blatant, I agree

 

[Damage3245]

To me it does seem to be a weakness on Moro's part rather than an inherent resistance for Ultra Instinct. If Moro's body had been suitable to contain the power of Ultra Instinct within him, then he wouldn't have had any issues.

It's the same situation with Saganbo; he became overloaded with too much Ki and then died as a result. Does this mean that every Ki user has a Resistance to Power Mimicry because if someone too weak tries using their Ki they will die?

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Imo it qualifies more as unconventional resistance, given it is not that the power cannot be copied (it can), but that copying it without proper training causes damage to the copycat

 

[IvarUHQ]

To me it does seem to be a weakness on Moro's part rather than an inherent resistance for Ultra Instinct. If Moro's body had been suitable to contain the power of Ultra Instinct within him, then he wouldn't have had any issues.

It's the same situation with Saganbo; he became overloaded with too much Ki and then died as a result. Does this mean that every Ki user has a Resistance to Power Mimicry because if someone too weak tries using their Ki they will die?

So even if we say that you had a better body trained than moro it will change nothing the ultra instinct you can't all simply not master the first shot without consequence, Goku the first who used it was his he did not copy it as moro had very serious consequences and his body did not swell like moro which means that the ultra instinct is inherent to someone and I agree with an unconventional copy resistance since it can be copied but not used

 

[TiltedFN]

To me it does seem to be a weakness on Moro's part rather than an inherent resistance for Ultra Instinct. If Moro's body had been suitable to contain the power of Ultra Instinct within him, then he wouldn't have had any issues.

Well that means it wasn't really a weakness on Moro's part then, but a consequence for what Angel power is. Ultra Instinct adapts the body to the opponent as the fight goes on. Moro's body wasn't suited to handle this type of adaption which led to his downfall. Moro is someone who was used to absorbing power to amp himself. He literally goes around absorbing planets and would never have stopped if he didn't die in the Moro saga. Goku has gone through specific physical training to attain a body that is suitable to handle this adaption and the Angel power. And you kind of answered why it would be a resistance since Moro DIDN'T have a body that was capable of containing that Angel power. So what happens when someone who does absorbs this power? They would literally just die.

It's the same situation with Saganbo; he became overloaded with too much Ki and then died as a result. Does this mean that every Ki user has a Resistance to Power Mimicry because if someone too weak tries using their Ki they will die?

I wouldn't say every Ki user would have a resistance, but there was an emphasis on Angel power being nothing to scoff at, a level that requires immense training. Saganbo was originally just a scrub who wasn't even on the level of these God tier fighters to begin with. Moro was. He could absorb Goku and Vegeta's power pretty easily, and countless planets. Planets in DB have a pretty extreme life force as we've seen since they got Moro back to his prime.

 

[Damage3245]

Well that means it wasn't really a weakness on Moro's part then, but a consequence for what Angel power is. Ultra Instinct adapts the body to the opponent as the fight goes on. Moro's body wasn't suited to handle this type of adaption which led to his downfall. Moro is someone who was used to absorbing power to amp himself. He literally goes around absorbing planets and would never have stopped if he didn't die in the Moro saga. Goku has gone through specific physical training to attain a body that is suitable to handle this adaption and the Angel power. And you kind of answered why it would be a resistance since Moro DIDN'T have a body that was capable of containing that Angel power. So what happens when someone who does absorbs this power? They would literally just die.

I may have phrased it badly; what I'm trying to say is that Moro didn't really have any issues with actually copying Ultra Instinct; he just couldn't handle the consequences of that much energy himself. A person's limit on what they can absorb/wield is down to them individually, not something attributed to the power of Ultra Instinct itself. Moro hit his limit in this case, but someone else with a higher limit would not do so. So Resistance to Power Mimicry seems like the wrong label to apply here.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

To me it does seem to be a weakness on Moro's part rather than an inherent resistance for Ultra Instinct. If Moro's body had been suitable to contain the power of Ultra Instinct within him, then he wouldn't have had any issues.

It's the same situation with Saganbo; he became overloaded with too much Ki and then died as a result. Does this mean that every Ki user has a Resistance to Power Mimicry because if someone too weak tries using their Ki they will die?

Comparing this to Saganbo makes no sense. This isn't an instance of external energy overload.

Moro is vastly more powerful than Goku is and has merged with OG-73, who's body shapeshifts to suit whatever he copies. That's how the copy ability can use things like Piccolo's extendable arms or sprout spines. Moro is also used to absorbing immense levels of ambient energy with no issue.

When Goku is telling Moro he needs to let go of Merus' power to survive he is stating that Moro would need to condition his body to handle the properties of Ultra Instinct. The moment before Moro's body begins to deforming he states his body automatically grows tougher to compensate for his opponent. And it is later stated that Moro's power is continually swelling because of copying Merus. To the extent Moro is rapidly going insane and is going to explode.

As a whole, Whis ties it into the Angel Power being copied. Goku states that it's a consequence of using Ultra Instinct and that one has to train their body to withstand using it and it is directly connected to Moro's statement of how UI makes his body grow tougher automatically, which is followed immediately by his body swelling up dramatically.

It's also important to remember what OG-73's Copy Ability actually does. It doesn't absorb power. It doesn't take power in. It scans the abilities of the target and then copies them. Moro's body collapsing is directly tied into the specific use of Ultra Instinct. Not just raw power. And OG-73's physiology (which Moro merged with his own) automatically alters itself to match the powers it copies. So this can't be a simple case of power overload.

The context of how OG-73's abilities work and what the characters state as well as how Moro's body swelling up is followed immediately after the statement of his body automatically growing tougher thanks to UI all ties the self-destruction into Ultra Instinct itself. You cannot use it if you have not been trained to handle the technique itself.

 

[Damage3245]

Comparing this to Saganbo makes no sense. This isn't an instance of external energy overload.

Goku directly compares it to Saganbo's case though.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Goku directly compares it to Saganbo's case though.

Because the consequences are similar. Saganbo's body was breaking down from power being injected into him that he couldn't handle. Moro's body is breaking down because he is using an ability he can't handle. The mechanics of how these consequences are reached differ. The point, regardless, is to give up on what has been copied or you will be destroyed.

Again, Goku is far weaker than Moro. Yet his body can handle using Ultra Instinct. Because he was trained to use the technique by Merus and Whis. Goku having Ultra Instinct is what gives him his added layer of resistance to Extrasensory Perception, because Ultra Instinct grants you 'Angel Power' in the first place. Anyone who copies Ultra Instinct yet has not conditioned their body to handle Angel Power is not going to be able to survive using it.

 

[TiltedFN]

snip

Btw, I do think that it should be an unconventional resistance to power mimicry. It can be copied, but it will result in your death if you aren't suited for the technique. And Moro only survived as long as he did because of the specific abilities that he gained from seven three, like his body even being able to expand in the first place to hold the Angel power.

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

I may have phrased it badly; what I'm trying to say is that Moro didn't really have any issues with actually copying Ultra Instinct; he just couldn't handle the consequences of that much energy himself. A person's limit on what they can absorb/wield is down to them individually, not something attributed to the power of Ultra Instinct itself. Moro hit his limit in this case, but someone else with a higher limit would not do so. So Resistance to Power Mimicry seems like the wrong label to apply here.

Moro73 utterly decimated UIO Goku, if it were simply a case of power/energy level, he would not have died. A specific training is required to be able to allow ones body handle UI and its adaptive features

 

[Damage3245]

Moro73 utterly decimated UIO Goku, if it were simply a case of power/energy level, he would not have died. A specific training is required to be able to allow ones body handle UI and its adaptive features

How strong Goku is in relation to Moro doesn't quite matter for this. To explain, I'll use Saganbo as an example:

Saganbo normally has X level of power.

His body can handle up to Y level of power. Moro keeps feeding him energy boosts until he hits Y level.

His body can't handle Z level of power. When Moro overdoses him on Ki and he inevitably dies after taking more than he can handle.

So while Goku may normally have a level of power lower than Moro's own, his Y value, or what he can handle as his upper limit, is higher.

 

[Nierre]

I'm not even sure labelling it as a resistance regardless of whether it's unconventional or not is even accurate.

id probably call it unconventional self destruction inducement via power mimicry or something like that. could use some work on the wording though

id go as far as to say, though, based on Whis' wording, it's not just Ultra Instinct but Angel powers in general

 

[TiltedFN]

I'm not even sure labelling it as a resistance regardless of whether it's unconventional or not is even accurate.

id probably call it unconventional self destruction inducement via power mimicry or something like that. could use some work on the wording though

id go as far as to say, though, based on Whis' wording, it's not just Ultra Instinct but Angel powers in general

I'm not sure what you mean here? Moro exploding was just because of the Angel power swelling up and Moro not being able to handle it. Ultra Instinct is literally Angel power lol. Why would Toyotaro have Whis and Goku contradict each other. They are saying the same thing basically; that being that Ultra Instinct is also Angel power. It seems like you are trying to separate the two. It would still be an unconventional resistance because of Angel Powers AD. It can still be self destruction as a side effect I guess? But that isn't the point.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

How strong Goku is in relation to Moro doesn't quite matter for this. To explain, I'll use Saganbo as an example:

Saganbo normally has X level of power.

His body can handle up to Y level of power. Moro keeps feeding him energy boosts until he hits Y level.

His body can't handle Z level of power. When Moro overdoses him on Ki and he inevitably dies after taking more than he can handle.

So while Goku may normally have a level of power lower than Moro's own, his Y value, or what he can handle as his upper limit, is higher.

This is effectively why it would constitute as an unconventional resistance to Power Mimicry. Goku, a much weaker person, has undergone specialised training to withstand Ultra Instinct's properties whereas Moro, a much stronger person, has not undergone such training and begins to break down physically from using UI.

The specific issue with Moro using Ultra Instinct is not the baseline power. He was using Ultra Instinct, stated he matched Goku and then stated his magic can give him an edge over him. It's only later on when Moro brings up how his body grows tougher automatically that we then see his body begin to break down. And it is repeatedly stated that Moro's Angel Power is swelling continually even after he merges with the Earth.

So the particular reason why Moro is going to self-destruct is because of Ultra Instinct's Accelerated Development. The rate is too fast for Moro's body to contend with even with OG-73's physiology. This causes the power to swell up uncontrollably because his body cannot withstand or control it and it will result in him self-destructing and destroying the universe.

The reason Goku can use Ultra Instinct without this risk of self-destruction is because he has trained his body to withstand the properties of the ability, which is the enhanced AD. So if someone copies Ultra Instinct without conditioning their body to handle that AD they will self-destruct from UI's growing power.

And to iterate, OG-73's physiology was merged with Moro. OG-73's body is designed to adapt to what he copies. Moro's body is already trying to adapt to using Ultra Instinct and failing to do so.

 

[Vietthai96]

I'm not even sure labelling it as a resistance regardless of whether it's unconventional or not is even accurate.

id probably call it unconventional self destruction inducement via power mimicry or something like that. could use some work on the wording though

id go as far as to say, though, based on Whis' wording, it's not just Ultra Instinct but Angel powers in general

Uh oh what?, what you just said mean Moro have unconventional self-destruction via power mimicry, which mean he gonna self-destruct himself everytime he copies other's abilities. No offense, but make absolute no sense at all

How strong Goku is in relation to Moro doesn't quite matter for this. To explain, I'll use Saganbo as an example:

Saganbo normally has X level of power.

His body can handle up to Y level of power. Moro keeps feeding him energy boosts until he hits Y level.

His body can't handle Z level of power. When Moro overdoses him on Ki and he inevitably dies after taking more than he can handle.

So while Goku may normally have a level of power lower than Moro's own, his Y value, or what he can handle as his upper limit, is higher.

Yeah, no, different, Goku in UI literally have the same UI's Accelerated Development yet his body is perfectly fine, while Moro is gonna blow up himself, and Goku directly stated that he can use the ability since he trained to use it, this isn't just a simply case of power limit, it is literally Moro couldn't handle the power, by your logic, Goku who also has power limit need to get blow up too

And even if we arguing via your way, it is still resulting in a power will blow up anyone who get it but do not train to use it, that mean the power itself still preventing you from using it in a way, it is still Resistance to Power Mimicy, albeit Unconventional

 

[StarShooter80]

I don't see why it's being argued that this is a weakness specific to Moro or that the cause is from other factors separate from UI, it's verbatim stated that the reason why his body was breaking down was because it was not fit for something like Ultra Instinct, which should also apply to other power mimicry users outside of Dragon Ball who also don't have bodies to the same standard.

Having it be unconventional resistance seems fine too.

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Unconventional resistance looks fine

 

[Kin201]

which should also apply to other power mimicry users outside of Dragon Ball who also don't have bodies to the same standard.

What are the requirements for a "trained" body that can withstand the use of UI?

Moro is someone who admits that he never trains his physical body. So how would this apply to a character who has trained their body to the utmost limits and has a copy ability similar to Moro? Or would it be pointless because their "body training" does not involve UI like you implied?

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Moro has regeneration and even that didn't help his body withstand the superior instinct, so I'm sure that copying something of that level will make anyone explode, i agree with that.

 

[MrTayman616]

Honing the body itself is way different than Ki applications. Regardless of Moro's energy and ability absorptions, his body itself isn't hined like Goku and Vegeta, who's near their limits for pure physical ability.

Moro didn't even train once, so i agree it's more of Moro's weakness here.

Though can't we just add the requirement of a pure physical ability to some extent? Like the need of a trained body? But it'd still be unknown ig since it's not specified?

 

[CryoTheMayo]

What are the requirements for a "trained" body that can withstand the use of UI?

Moro is someone who admits that he never trains his physical body. So how would this apply to a character who has trained their body to the utmost limits and has a copy ability similar to Moro? Or would it be pointless because their "body training" does not involve UI like you implied?

The ability to withstand Accelerated Development on the level of Ultra Instinct. If you can't then your body will self-destruct. If you can then it won't. That should be reasonable enough.

 

[Nierre]

I'm not sure what you mean here? Moro exploding was just because of the Angel power swelling up and Moro not being able to handle it. Ultra Instinct is literally Angel power lol. Why would Toyotaro have Whis and Goku contradict each other. They are saying the same thing basically; that being that Ultra Instinct is also Angel power. It seems like you are trying to separate the two

no I agree with what they're saying, I'm saying that it's not just Ultra instinct that causes Moro swelling but it's generally just an effect of Angel power if youre not trained enough to hone said power.

Uh oh what?, what you just said mean Moro have unconventional self-destruction via power mimicry, which mean he gonna self-destruct himself everytime he copies other's abilities. No offense, but make absolute no sense at all

yeah ik it's not right. but idk how to word it. resistance isn't correct either. cause like Damage said it's not a resistance.

i think it might just be better to put in the P&A section a note that mentions what happens when you absorb Angel power if ur not honed to contain it.

 

[Vietthai96]

no I agree with what they're saying, I'm saying that it's not just Ultra instinct that causes Moro swelling but it's generally just an effect of Angel power if youre not trained enough to hone said power.

I mean, the power itself still preventing anyone who get it from using it by blow them up, if they are not trained to handle the power, so it is still, at worst Limited Resistance, in an unconventional way

yeah ik it's not right. but idk how to word it.

oke

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

I mean, the power itself still preventing anyone who get it from using it by blow them up, if they are not trained to handle the power, so it is still, at worst Limited Resistance, in an unconventional way


oke

Unconventional Limited Resistance to Power Mimicry sounds good too

 

[Thermor]

I think this warrants unconventional resistance to power mimicry.

 

[Killerdrone123]

I agree with vieth here

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Unconventional Limited Resistance to Power Mimicry sounds good.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Moro is vastly more powerful than Goku is and has merged with OG-73, who's body shapeshifts to suit whatever he copies. That's how the copy ability can use things like Piccolo's extendable arms or sprout spines.

Seven-Three can use techniques such as the Demon Hand and the porcupine powers because he copies combat abilities. His body does not shapeshift or morph to reactively adapt to his copied identities—nothing ever implies he does; he simply copies abilities, and then he uses the abilities. Like how Kid Buu copied from Kibito Kai the technique of Kai Kai, which (being an advanced form of Instant Transmission) requires a level of Spirit Control—a technique he did not originally possess; he copied Kai Kai; therefore, he can simply use Kai Kai, regardless of whether he previously possessed Spirit Control. If Seven-Three copies Piccolo, he can simply use Regeneration, or Demon Hand, or Telepathy, regardless of whether he previously possessed the pre-requisite characteristics—not because he suddenly replicated Namekian biology but because he replicated the ability itself.

it's verbatim stated that the reason why his body was breaking down was because it was not fit for something like Ultra Instinct

No, Goku says Ultra Instinct is a technique which can only be used properly after sufficient training, which is not an incorrect statement; but Whis and the third volume of the Interval Special clarify Moro's body "cannot withstand Angel Power" (天使の力に耐えられず), and more specifically, "cannot withstand the absorbed Angel Power of Merus" (吸収したメルスの天使の力に耐えきれず).

Goku's body, for example, has never—not once—ever been at risk of self-destructing because he was incapable of withstanding Angel Power because he has never copied an Angel's power; even when Goku first unlocked the perfected Ultra Instinct, his body was never at risk of blowing up from the inside; the only major drawback he suffered was as a result of attempting to autonomously react to Jiren, whose speed continued to increase rapidly and seemingly endlessly, placing a steadily worsening strain on his body. Had Moro copied the abilities of Goku, he likely could have used Ultra Instinct without the risk of self-destructing via the limit-breaking transformation Goku accesses the technique through; but because he copied the abilities of Merus, he also copied the power of an Angel, which ultimately he could not contain.

The ability to withstand Accelerated Development on the level of Ultra Instinct. If you can't then your body will self-destruct. If you can then it won't.

Quite literally the definition of oxymoronic. The user's Battle Power—the user's Ki—is not increased by Ultra Instinct's Accelerated Development, the user's body becomes tougher—"increases its [structural] strength" (強度をあげる). The word 強度 (kyōdo) is not the same as 戦闘力 (Sentōryoku; "Battle Power"), nor is the word even associated with words like 強 (tsuyu), 力 (chikara), 勢力 (seiryoku), or パワー (pawā); the word is commonly used as the root of terms like 材料の強度 (zairyō no kyōdo; "material strength") and associated with the ability to resist destruction—durability. Your body begins self-destructing because of its power to automatically increase its ability to physically resist destruction?

I mean, the power itself still preventing anyone who get it from using it by blow them up, if they are not trained to handle the power, so it is still, at worst Limited Resistance, in an unconventional way

Moro was self-destructing because he had copied Angel Power, which his body could not handle. The term "Angel Power" (天使の力 Tenshi no Chikara, lit. "Power of an Angel) does not refer to Ultra Instinct; the term Beerus used, "Godly Power" (神の力 Kami no Chikara, lit. "Power of a God"), does not refer to godly techniques; the terms refer to Battle Power; in Dragon Ball, the word chikara is used near-exclusively to refer to combat attributes—such as "strength" and "power", or "raw power" (力技 chikarawaza). Even the term "God Power" (神力 Jinryoku), as used previously by Moro and the Grand Supreme Kai, is used to refer to "strength" or Battle Power; in Dragon Ball, the word ryoku is used near-exclusively to refer to combat attributes, such as "power" (威力 iryoku), "destructive power" (破壊力 hakairyoku), "defensive power" (防御力 bōgyoryoku), "physical strength" (腕力 wanryoku), or "Battle Power" (戦闘力 Sentōryoku).

If they were referring specifically to the nature of Ultra Instinct, they would have either: (1) referred to the technique by name; or (2) used the term "divine technique" (神の技 kami no waza, lit. "technique of a god"), like Moro did previously.

Comparing this to Saganbo makes no sense. This isn't an instance of external energy overload.

Saying Moro self-destructing because of the energy he copied from a third party "isn't an instance of external energy overload" is ignorant at best and knowingly disingenuous at worst, especially considering Goku literally directly compares Moro's situation to Saganbo's. His isn't the first, though.

• During the "Future" Trunks Saga, holding 100% of Blue's power is held within himself was destroying Goku's body.
• Powering up beyond his limits via anger before he had recovered the stamina required to withstand his energy was destroying Fusion Zamasu's body.
• As the Legendary Super Saiyan, once she transforms, Kale's power continues growing until she self-destructs upon hitting her physical limits.
• Notably, Jiren possesses "immeasurable potential" and can, thus, seemingly grow endlessly without hitting a physical limit—through sheer determination.
• The Kaio-ken can cause the user's Ki itself to explode if one's power is multiplied too far beyond their physical limits.

This specific drawback has a precedent in the Dragon World.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Why would this be a resistance at all? 99% of people in fiction have bodies as strong as their Energy Projection so this wouldn't apply to them, and as proven above this is not unique to Angel Power at all.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Seven-Three can use techniques such as the Demon Hand and the porcupine powers because he copies combat abilities. His body does not shapeshift or morph to reactively adapt to his copied identities—nothing ever implies he does; he simply copies abilities, and then he uses the abilities. Like how Kid Buu copied from Kibito Kai the technique of Kai Kai, which (being an advanced form of Instant Transmission) requires a level of Spirit Control—a technique he did not originally possess; he copied Kai Kai; therefore, he can simply use Kai Kai, regardless of whether he previously possessed Spirit Control. If Seven-Three copies Piccolo, he can simply use Regeneration, or Demon Hand, or Telepathy, regardless of whether he previously possessed the pre-requisite characteristics—not because he suddenly replicated Namekian biology but because he replicated the ability itself.

Okay. All of that is irrelevant to my point. Which is that Seven-Three's body automatically adjusts to whatever he copies to be capable of using those abilities.

No, Goku says Ultra Instinct is a technique which can only be used properly after sufficient training, which is not an incorrect statement; but Whis and the third volume of the Interval Special clarify Moro's body "cannot withstand Angel Power" (天使の力に耐えられず), and more specifically, "cannot withstand the absorbed Angel Power of Merus" (吸収したメルスの天使の力に耐えきれず).

Which is repeatedly stated to be a result of his power swelling up. Which starts happening the moment he brags about how his body automatically reinforces itself as necessary. And Goku, who was taught continually by Whis and Merus on Ultra Instinct, judges that it's a result of not conditioning his body.

Notably, Moro even states himself that he and Goku are evenly matched. When Seven-Three's copy ability gives you the same level of strength of your target. Which does mean Moro was using Merus' power already. So why is his body breaking down from using Ultra Instinct? Why does Goku state it's a consequence of not conditioning his body to handle it?

Goku's body, for example, has never—not once—ever been at risk of self-destructing because he was incapable of withstanding Angel Power because he has never copied an Angel's power; even when Goku first unlocked the perfected Ultra Instinct, his body was never at risk of blowing up from the inside; the only major drawback he suffered was as a result of attempting to autonomously react to Jiren, whose speed continued to increase rapidly and seemingly endlessly, placing a steadily worsening strain on his body. Had Moro copied the abilities of Goku, he likely could have used Ultra Instinct without the risk of self-destructing via the limit-breaking transformation Goku accesses the technique through; but because he copied the abilities of Merus, he also copied the power of an Angel, which ultimately he could not contain.

Yeah...because Goku was being trained to use Ultra Instinct as his end goal by Whis. For several years. What is your point? That someone who was actually trained to survive using the ability would still struggle to use it without physical consequences?

And, again, Goku himself links Moro's condition to using the technique itself. That's why he specifically mentions how he had to hone himself to withstand using the ability.

Quite literally the definition of oxymoronic. The user's Battle Power—the user's Ki—is not increased by Ultra Instinct's Accelerated Development, the user's body becomes tougher—"increases its [structural] strength" (強度をあげる). The word 強度 (kyōdo) is not the same as 戦闘力 (Sentōryoku; "Battle Power"), nor is the word even associated with words like 強 (tsuyu), 力 (chikara), 勢力 (seiryoku), or パワー (pawā); the word is commonly used as the root of terms like 材料の強度 (zairyō no kyōdo; "material strength") and associated with the ability to resist destruction—durability. Your body begins self-destructing because of its power to automatically increase its ability to physically resist destruction?

Again, this ultimately doesn't really matter. The context makes it clear that his body begins to break apart the moment it starts to reinforce itself. Prior to that he was using Merus' copied power with no problem.

Moro was self-destructing because he had copied Angel Power, which his body could not handle. The term "Angel Power" (天使の力 Tenshi no Chikara, lit. "Power of an Angel) does not refer to Ultra Instinct; the term Beerus used, "Godly Power" (神の力 Kami no Chikara, lit. "Power of a God"), does not refer to godly techniques; the terms refer to Battle Power; in Dragon Ball, the word chikara is used near-exclusively to refer to combat attributes—such as "strength" and "power", or "raw power" (力技 chikarawaza). Even the term "God Power" (神力 Jinryoku), as used previously by Moro and the Grand Supreme Kai, is used to refer to "strength" or Battle Power; in Dragon Ball, the word ryoku is used near-exclusively to refer to combat attributes, such as "power" (威力 iryoku), "destructive power" (破壊力 hakairyoku), "defensive power" (防御力 bōgyoryoku), "physical strength" (腕力 wanryoku), or "Battle Power" (戦闘力 Sentōryoku).

And yet Moro was able to use that Angel Power just fine at the earlier stages of the fight. It is only after his body responded to fighting Goku and tried reinforcing itself automatically that it began to fall apart.

Not even going to touch the rest of what you said. As far as I know you aren't recognised as a Japanese translator and the nuances of these terms are under so many layers that trying to debate it would be pointless.

If they were referring specifically to the nature of Ultra Instinct, they would have either: (1) referred to the technique by name; or (2) used the term "divine technique" (神の技 kami no waza, lit. "technique of a god"), like Moro did previously.

Yeah, no. Goku makes it pretty clear it's about the technique.

Saying Moro self-destructing because of the energy he copied from a third party "isn't an instance of external energy overload" is ignorant at best and knowingly disingenuous at worst, especially considering Goku literally directly compares Moro's situation to Saganbo's. His isn't the first, though.

I already explained that what Goku is stating is more about the consequences. But even then the similarity would be in how Moro's body is increasing in power over time. Like Saganbo. Which causes him to breakdown. Like Saganbo. The difference is that Moro is not being injected with Ki. He's using Ultra Instinct.

• During the "Future" Trunks Saga, holding 100% of Blue's power is held within himself was destroying Goku's body.

Yes. Because Super Saiyan Blue has that property. If someone were to copy Super Saiyan Blue somehow it would fall under the same principle. If you lack training you will break down from using it. Because you are wearing your body down rapidly.

• Powering up beyond his limits via anger before he had recovered the stamina required to withstand his energy was destroying Fusion Zamasu's body.

Because his body was damaged and he didn't give himself the time to regenerate. Doesn't take much to understand why that differs from Moro.

• As the Legendary Super Saiyan, once she transforms, Kale's power continues growing until she self-destructs upon hitting her physical limits.

Yes. Like Moro. Using Ultra Instinct.

• Notably, Jiren possesses "immeasurable potential" and can, thus, seemingly grow endlessly without hitting a physical limit—through sheer determination.

Because Jiren's body has been relentlessly honed to the extent his raw power surpasses his own God of Destruction. Jiren > Goku > Moro in their refinement.

• The Kaio-ken can cause the user's Ki itself to explode if one's power is multiplied too far beyond their physical limits.

Yes. Because that's a static multiplier over the user's ordinary capabilities that induces strain. Something that exists all the way into Super. If someone were to copy Kaio-Ken what do you think would happen?

---

I'm going to just repost the argument here:

• Moro copies Merus' powers which grants him abilities all equal in strength to the original. He is already fighting with Merus' power
• It is stated that Moro and Goku are evenly matched because of this
• Moro then brags that his body automatically grows more durable as necessary. Which is followed up by his body beginning to deform
• Whis mentions that Moro's body is swelling up because of the Angel Power it is trying to contain
• Goku states this is a consequence of using Ultra Instinct without conditioning yourself to handle it first (this inherently connects Whis and Goku's statements together)
• Even after Moro possesses the Earth to expand his physical limitations and survive the swelling energy, his power continues to swell up to the point he will forcibly self-destruct and destroy the universe.
• This is stated before Moro begins absorbing Earth's energy and it is repeatedly stated that releasing Merus' copied powers is what will prevent this self-destruct sequence.

In short, Moro's body breaking down is deliberately tied into him using Ultra Instinct. His body swelling up and destroying itself is a consequence of using it, as stated by Goku himself. Whis then connects it to Angel Power and states that it is swelling up within Moro, which will cause his body to dramatically explode. Regardless of the detonation, Goku makes it clear that using Ultra Instinct will destroy the user if they lack the training to withstand it.

I think it's important to iterate again. Moro did not absorb Merus' power. He copied his powers. There is no external power source that is causing Moro to continually grow stronger. This is an internal malfunction from his body not being trained to handle using Ultra Instinct. Either Ultra Instinct is what causes this swelling power (as indicated by Goku's statement) or you are creating a theory that Angels have the ability to passively grow stronger at an extreme rate and Moro is breaking down as a result of that specific Angel ability being copied. Something we are never told exists.

Regardless, this thread is too minor to warrant large posts like this one. So I'm probably going to just leave it to other supporters to argue from now on.

 

[Phoenks]

There is not evidence for a resistance to power mimicry here, only that it requires you have enough strength to endure angelic techniques. Like Damage originally said, this would be a weakness for Moro, rather than a resistance for Goku. Not even an unconventional one.

The fact that Moro was able to copy Ultra Instinct at all immediately disproves any resistance to power mimicry right off the bat. You can't be resistant if the ability literally already worked on you.

 

[Vietthai96]

It isn't even a weakness, because the power literally force him to blow up. 73 can copy people with stronger power level than him and he is fine, Moro have 73 ability of course. Moro also literally can absorb soul/ki to get stronger, even after he get Merus angel power, which stronger than him, he was fine for a while before the power act up. So literally Moro is capable of absorbing/taking power stronger than his current limit without explode himself so it isn't a weakness, but a feat for Angel Power, Moro even tried to circumvent this by merging with the planet to increases his "suppose limit" yet he gonna explode anyway

While i can understand people didn't see the resistance, it is still a feat for the power, saying it is Moro problem is wrong, because if it was his problem, he should have exploded himself way before this

 

[Damage3245]

While i can understand people didn't see the resistance, it is still a feat for the power, saying it is Moro problem is wrong, because if it was his problem, he should have exploded himself way before this

Why would he have exploded way before this? When Saganbo went beyond his limits, he didn't drop dead on the spot instantly; he kept fighting and struggling for a bit before he inevitably died. Moro going beyond his limits meant that he was on a timer to self-destruction; not instantaneous death.

 

[Phoenks]

It isn't even a weakness, because the power literally force him to blow up. 73 can copy people with stronger power level than him and he is fine, Moro have 73 ability of course. Moro also literally can absorb soul/ki to get stronger, even after he get Merus angel power, which stronger than him, he was fine for a while before the power act up. So literally Moro is capable of absorbing/taking power stronger than his current limit without explode himself so it isn't a weakness, but a feat for Angel Power, Moro even tried to circumvent this by merging with the planet to increases his "suppose limit" yet he gonna explode anyway

While i can understand people didn't see the resistance, it is still a feat for the power, saying it is Moro problem is wrong, because if it was his problem, he should have exploded himself way before this

Can 73 copy angel powers? I am unfamiliar with Dragon Ball. If they can't then using him doesn't really suffice as evidence for being able to copy something of that magnitude.

it is still a feat for the power, saying it is Moro problem is wrong, because if it was his problem, he should have exploded himself way before this

What does the amount of time he survived before exploding have to do with anything? He still explodes.

And from what I've gathered so far, it is an issue of durability/endurance, not an issue of his copying. Goku verbatim states that he had to train his body to endure the angel power, and that is the difference that causes Moro to explode. He also states it is an issue of "limits." Implying Moro did, in fact, have a limit/weakness. Moro still copied the ability he just couldn't withstand it.

Unless we want to give Unconventional Resistance to every character on the wiki who has an ability which a weaker person can't withstand if they were to copy it, I do not see the practicality of listing this as anything.

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

Can you people stop saying "weaker person" here?

Motor was stronger than Goku was prior to UI, when he used UI je matches Goku just fine, Goku straight up says that the reason UI is killing him is that he didn't hone his body to handle it, unlike Goku did, it's not about being weaker or stronger

If you don't hone your body to handle that technique, you die, that's it

 

[Phoenks]

Can you people stop saying "weaker person" here?

Motor was stronger than Goku was prior to UI, when he used UI je matches Goku just fine, Goku straight up says that the reason UI is killing him is that he didn't hone his body to handle it, unlike Goku did, it's not about being weaker or stronger

If you don't hone your body to handle that technique, you die, that's it

Why would Goku say he's reached his limit, referring to his inability to handle UI as a matter of physical endurance, if this is not an issue of physical statistics?

"hone your body," what does this mean to you? Curious.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Why would he have exploded way before this? When Saganbo went beyond his limits, he didn't drop dead on the spot instantly; he kept fighting and struggling for a bit before he inevitably died. Moro going beyond his limits meant that he was on a timer to self-destruction; not instantaneous death.

Who is Saganbo?