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Dbs downgrade
- Thread starter StekFence
- Start date
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- Tags
- dragon ball
- Status
- 12,826
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It's only one person not the op or someone like Omega calling it that here.
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I've seen many other people in the past claim it as such.
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I've seen people making that mistake for like... a decade
Serlock_Holmes
He/Him- 3,651
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Disagree with the thread. Multipliers are fine as transformations help surpass tremendous gulfs which is a direct statement to their validity.
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People putting defects where they don't exist lol
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- Thread starter
- #89
I’m not saying that the transformation multipliers aren’t valid persay, more that the results you get from Multiplier stacking is extremely high, and has no actual feats of speed to support it. It’s that there’s no consistency to it
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- Thread starter
- #90
When you have time, please point it out to me
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It’s not contradicted I don’t see anywhere in the standards that say you can’t stack multipliers unless you have a feat that’s above the multiplier it just says you need evidence and I‘ve already listed what the standards consider evidence
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- Thread starter
- #92
the evidence isnt enough, the evidence boils down to characters getting stronger and faster. That’s not proof of any given multiplier, it’s proof of a multipliers existence
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I mean I can, but honestly, I'm starting to not understand why you need this? The thread is baseless as is. You can't just say "oh well it needs to be removed just because." These multiplier standards have existed for a long while, and yet DBS's multipliers were accepted. Isn't that proof enough?
If you can't prove an actual contradiction or anything of the like, this thread - to put it bluntly - has no reason to exist
- 3,493
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The standards literally say that is evidence though but now I’m curious what in particular are you trying to downgrade?
For example lets say base Goku is like 100m x C in base (lowball Ik)
He turns SSJ so now 5 billion x C do we need proof for that increase? And if so why it’s an accepted multiplier
i would understand your arguments if there was an actual contradiction but I don’t see that anywhere
Serlock_Holmes
He/Him- 3,651
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The fact those multipliers help them beat people they had difficulty with before is the proof.
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- Thread starter
- #96
That’s what revisions are for. To change things, you can’t just say things can’t be changed cos they were once accepted. That’s frankly asinine and only supports things becoming static.
Contradictions aren’t really the crux of the matter. The standards say that this requires a certain amount of evidence, and the only evidence that has been argued is that characters have become faster, which I’m sure you see is somewhat weak when we are talking about massive jumps.
That’s for small multipliers, but the thing is, Many of the higher transformations are argued to have much much larger ones
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Except you've brought nothing. No evidence. Just "well they should be removed"
Nope. Especially because these are officially stated multipliers, like Kaioken and Super Saiyan. This is making a downgrade for the sake of making a downgrade
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Okay so SSJ3 is accepted as >500x
If DBS Goku is 100m x C in base and turns SSJ3
Does he now need explicit proof that he’s now 50 billion x C?
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I mean, several things were accepted in the past just to be changed later on, if we don't even know what was the reasoning for them to be accepted or when they were, along with no reasoning for why such a big stack multiplier such as 2 billion times is currently accepted in the the current blog of the multiplier scaling chain, then to say that they are accepted even tho no reasoning for it to be the case would be as "baseless" would it not?
The standards require more and more evidence for the consistencie of the multipliet the bigger the value and final result of the stack, in the verse page and in the verse scaling blog none has been presented for a incredibly high multiplier such as 2.000.000x, therefore it is going against the standard, contradictions are not needed against it, evidence in favor of it are needed as per the rule
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- Thread starter
- #100
For it to be accepted in the first place, there should be some kind of evidence along these lines.
“For higher multipliers, like times 100 and above, the importance of stronger evidence, such as feats displaying power of a similar magnitude as the value the multiplier points to or the multipliers importance to the plot of the story, and a higher amount of evidence becomes increasingly necessary.”
That’s why I’m asking Clover for the proof, if it were to be presented, then I would just fold cos it matches the standards
“For higher multipliers, like times 100 and above, the importance of stronger evidence, such as feats displaying power of a similar magnitude as the value the multiplier points to or the multipliers importance to the plot of the story, and a higher amount of evidence becomes increasingly necessary.”
That’s why I’m asking Clover for the proof, if it were to be presented, then I would just fold cos it matches the standards
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- Thread starter
- #101
My argument is that there is a lack of evidence, what am I supposed to bring? I made the thread because I couldn’t find evidence.
I don’t have a problem with those, they are smaller multipliers. My issue is with the higher stuff over 100x
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Okay now I wanna say 2 things
1. MUI has no accepted multiplier he just upscales from characters
2. Are you trying to remove the accepted 500x multiplier?
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The problem in this thread is also the multiple multiplier stacking that makes all the way up to 2 bilion times, so you should not only focus on the individual multiplier boosts, but the stacking of them in the scaling chain
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That's the thing. That's all these multipliers are. Look at the conservative multipliers blog. It's just Super Saiyan, Kaioken, and Super Saiyan Blue (SSB was accepted as being at least 50x)
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- Thread starter
- #105
Wouldn’t that make its weaker then third grade?
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The blog was made before we accepted the whole SSJ2 > SSJ Second Grade = 10x SSJ thing afaik
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But that's the thing. Threads made to downgrade stuff usually carry evidence of their own as to why the thing should be removed. That didn't happen here. OP just came in saying "yeah this should be removed."
SSJ is a 50x amp. Kaioken is up to a 20x amp. Stuff like that. That's all that's being used for these multiplier chains, which you'd see if you looked at the multiplier blog. You know, officially stated multipliers.
If you're claiming the multiplier chain is baseless, that's just incorrect
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Oh then yeah then that’s an issue since these multipliers are already accepted as valid so they can be used if they don’t contradict the story, feats, or future events. So I don’t really agree with the premise of this crt
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Yeah it's not as if we're using any sudden new multipliers. These are the same ones from Z
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- Thread starter
- #110
I know, but there’s no feats that are relative to the speed increases stacking provides, nor are the multipliers themselves important to the story, they could be any given number and nothing would change. And as Godofice has posted, those are the evidence required for higher multipliers, which is the result of stacking them.
also,
“That means that if, for example, a character has a times 10 multiplier and later on gets another times 50 multiplier, than the evidence necessary to use both multipliers to get a statistic, is like that of a times 500 multiplier,” basically, as I interpret it, a hell of a lot of evidence is required to stack multipliers.
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- Thread starter
- #111
I gave the reason. :/ it’s just a matter of disagreeing or agreeing about the reason
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How are the multipliers not important to the story?
That’s telling us that if using both multipliers to get a statistic in that case would be equivalent to that of a 500x multiplier
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he did provide a reason, the simple lack of supportive evidence for such a high multiplier stack, which the standards ask for
no one is saying that it is baseless, only that it is against the standards since it needs far more supportive evidence for such a high multiplier as the 2.000.000x that the chain currently does
the individual ones are, they are stated, the problem is the stack of them, the standards due note that the higher the number of the multiplier, the bigger evidence you need, you would need a lot of evidence for a 2.000.000x multiplier
again, you are looking at the individual multipliers and not the full picture of the multiplier stacking chain
Serlock_Holmes
He/Him- 3,651
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Not even sure if the thread is legit. Should someone just come and say I don't agree with accepted stuff and reneed explanation without reason?
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Except it was clearly supported enough to be accepted in the first place
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These are official multipliers. We're not going to ignore them just because we don't like how high they lead
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again, mistakes can happen all the time, you could show the thread were this stacking and multiplier chain was accepted in the first place you know? how can we know that it wasn't accepted out of a mistake? because it doesn't look like it has any support for such a big multiplier such as 2 billion tho, or you could tell what the said support for it is, because if it is just the "they get stronger and faster" they i don't see how that is a big enough evidence for such a massively big multiplier
Serlock_Holmes
He/Him- 3,651
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As I said the whole premise of the thread is crazy. We are just redoing a thread topic because Op didn't like the result.
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I'm really not a fan of this comment. You know what it sounds like to me?
"I want evidence of such a boost. Except for the times such a boost is shown, that doesn't count"
Serlock_Holmes
He/Him- 3,651
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If the individual multipliers are accepted how can the end result of them not be?
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