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Dbs downgrade

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XXBenShapiroXx said:
That was a hypothetical. And which multiplier are you referring to? SSG, UI, MUI, they are all treated as pretty massive jumps in power. Going to we can't use them because Goku didn't exactly state SSG makes him 46 and half times stronger is as I said, reductive. What's the solution, Goku can't be scaled more than 10x above a feat because the writers don't use give Goku a speed feat 10x greater than his last one?
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The page states that smaller multipliers bellow 100 can still be arguably use with lesser evidence, only for 100 and above is when more evidence in needed
 
Base vegeta was battling Battle mode katopesla until Vegeta went super saiyan to match and overwhelm Ultimate mode katopesla (which is a 300 times speed amp).

SSG and SSB are also consistent with lets say Goku scaling from the Kefla fight where base kefla blitzed ssg goku and ssb goku could keep up with ssj kefla

so yes there are instances with speed being consistant
 
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omegabronic said:
The page states that smaller multipliers bellow 100 can still be arguably use with lesser evidence, only for 100 and above is when more evidence in needed
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This doesn't disprove anything I said nor does it make the standards any less reductive. The accept multipliers we have right now are only Kaioken, SSJ, and SSJ2, SSB, all of which are below 100. Kaioken is 20, SSJ is 50, SSJ2 is 10x SSJ, and SSB is 50x SSG. And before you say multiplier stacking, we obviously accept KK atop of SSB. All of these are below 100. (Iiirc if fusion and SSG and UI have been accepted yet)
 
BoastJr said:
Base vegeta was battling Battle mode katopesla until Vegeta went super saiyan to match and overwhelm Ultimate mode katopesla (which is a 300 times speed amp).

This is consistent with lets say ssg goku and ssb goku scaling from the base kefla and ssj kefla fight.

so yes there are instances with speed being consistant
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The concern here is more of the stacked multiplier scaling until that point rather than the individual multipliers themselves
 
XXBenShapiroXx said:
This doesn't disprove anything I said nor does it make the standards any less reductive. The accept multipliers we have right now are only Kaioken, SSJ, and SSJ2, SSB, all of which are below 100. Kaioken is 20, SSJ is 50, SSJ2 is 10x SSJ, and SSB is 50x SSG. And before you say multiplier stacking, we obviously accept KK atop of SSB. All of these are below 100. (Iiirc if fusion and SSG and UI have been accepted yet)
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They are all bellow 100 yes, but when used combined or when we stack them by making a char be stronger than their transformed self with the multiplier in base for example, and then we add another multiplier. They surpass 100 by a lot, you need evidence for the final result of the stack of multipliers
 
BoastJr said:
Base vegeta was battling Battle mode katopesla until Vegeta went super saiyan to match and overwhelm Ultimate mode katopesla (which is a 300 times speed amp).

This is consistent with lets say ssg goku and ssb goku scaling from the base kefla and ssj kefla fight.

so yes there are instances with speed being consistant
Click to expand...
That only proves that higher forms are faster, which isn’t the issue
 
omegabronic said:
They are all bellow 100 yes, but when used combined or when we stack them by making a char be stronger than their transformed self with the multiplier in base for example, and then we add another multiplier. They surpass 100 by a lot, you need evidence for the final result of the stack of multipliers
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So SSBKKx10 isn't 500x SSG because of stacking? This is just setting up more hoops to jump through because the show, which stacks multipliers all the time, didn't give us an exact statement that Goku is now 500 times stronger.

We know SSB is 50x SSG, and we know KK can be up to 10x. Do we ignore simple math and throw that out the window because the series doesn't hold our hand through it and tell us that exactly? The arguments for downgrading speed are literally just arguments that we need to change the standard.
 
Has anyone here looked at the speed scaling and justification? Because I'd prefer a debunk of that rather than this because there is no evidence for a downgrade other than standards, standards which weirdly enough didn't come up when the speed ratings got accepted in the first place.
 
XXBenShapiroXx said:
Has anyone here looked at the speed scaling and justification? Because I'd prefer a debunk of that rather than this because there is no evidence for a downgrade other than standards, standards which weirdly enough didn't come up when the speed ratings got accepted in the first place.
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Mistakes can happen, standards can change overtime, if your problem are the standards themselves theb why not make a thread to change them instead of complaining about the thread that is following them?
 
Yeah I'm not jumping to mistakes are made. I looked at the ratings justification and one jump from another is never more than 50x and are backed up by feats of people saying to each other.
 
XXBenShapiroXx said:
So SSBKKx10 isn't 500x SSG because of stacking? This is just setting up more hoops to jump through because the show, which stacks multipliers all the time, didn't give us an exact statement that Goku is now 500 times stronger.

We know SSB is 50x SSG, and we know KK can be up to 10x. Do we ignore simple math and throw that out the window because the series doesn't hold our hand through it and tell us that exactly? The arguments for downgrading speed are literally just arguments that we need to change the standard.
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Then go change the standards, just arguing in this crt that the standards are bad is irrelevant to whether or not the scaling matches the standards
 
omegabronic said:
Mistakes can happen, standards can change overtime, if your problem are the standards themselves theb why not make a thread to change them instead of complaining about the thread that is following them?
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Because you have yet to convince me our current speed ratings aren't following them. The evidence is through characters keeping lace with each other in combat after applying multipliers that are either less than 100 or stacked up to more than 100 based off multiplier less than 100.
 
XXBenShapiroXx said:
Yeah I'm not jumping to mistakes are made. I looked at the ratings justification and one jump from another is never more than 50x and are backed up by feats of people saying to each other.
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The standards say that you need to look at the final result of all the multipliers applied, not individually, but the total ammount
 
XXBenShapiroXx said:
Because you have yet to convince me our current speed ratings aren't following them. The evidence is through characters keeping lace with each other in combat after applying multipliers that are either less than 100 or stacked up to more than 100 based off multiplier less than 100.
Click to expand...
If the total ammount is far above 100 then the individual ones used does not matter
 
omegabronic said:
If the total ammount is far above 100 then the individual ones used does not matter
Click to expand...
Okay, so there lays issue. This means we can't accept SSBKKx10 being 500x SSG when we have both accepted multipliers less than 100. We have 2+2 but we aren't allow to answer with 4. So I think I'm gonna start planning a CRT to change the standards and use this thread as evidence for why it needs to be changed.
 
Did you guys forget that anything above super saiyan is suppose to be a 500x multiplier now? The current speed ratings are outdated. So you can't argue the 50x jump anymore based off of outdated usage of multipliers.
XXBenShapiroXx said:
Okay, so there lays issue. This means we can't accept SSBKKx10 being 500x SSG when we have both accepted multipliers less than 100. We have 2+2 but we aren't allow to answer with 4. So I think I'm gonna start planning a CRT to change the standards and use this thread as evidence for why it needs to be changed.
Click to expand...
 
BestMGQScalerEver said:
Sadly. I don't like how that works either.
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It's so hard to try and keep all the other supporters in check and tell them to stop talking and complaining about bad standards regarding DB but then shit like this happens and suddenly I can't play devil's advocate anymore for the site because it does shit like this lol.

Like trying to defend someone and they go ahead and do the exact same thing they were accused of while I'm defending them.
 
This doesn't even make any sense, you say we need more feats to prove these accepted multipliers? Proof of what? Why do these characters need speed feats greater than the last to prove they are that strong or fast? The multipliers we currently have are accepted, and now all of a sudden we can't use them? The proof and scaling comes from characters who already scale above the best feat, for example, people being on par with base goku and above, a base goku whos >>>BOG goku who scales to the speed feat, how is this not enough evidence?
 
TiltedFN said:
This doesn't even make any sense, you say we need more feats to prove these accepted multipliers? Proof of what? Why do these characters need speed feats greater than the last to prove they are that strong or fast? The multipliers we currently have are accepted, and now all of a sudden we can't use them? The proof and scaling comes from characters who already scale above the best feat, for example, people being on par with base goku and above, a base goku whos >>>BOG goku who scales to the speed feat, how is this not enough evidence?
Click to expand...
Blame the wiki's outdated standards
 
XXBenShapiroXx said:
It's so hard to try and keep all the other supporters in check and tell them to stop talking and complaining about bad standards regarding DB but then shit like this happens and suddenly I can't play devil's advocate anymore for the site because it does shit like this lol.

Like trying to defend someone and they go ahead and do the exact same thing they were accused of while I'm defending them.
Click to expand...
For the record, I’m a fan of db
 
TiltedFN said:
This doesn't even make any sense, you say we need more feats to prove these accepted multipliers? Proof of what? Why do these characters need speed feats greater than the last to prove they are that strong or fast? The multipliers we currently have are accepted, and now all of a sudden we can't use them? The proof and scaling comes from characters who already scale above the best feat, for example, people being on par with base goku and above, a base goku whos >>>BOG goku who scales to the speed feat, how is this not enough evidence?
Click to expand...
Do math but not too much math, duh.
StekFence said:
For the record, I’m a fan of db
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I typically don't care, I try to stay away from the tribalism. Supporters and opponents is a outdated system anyway. I don't hate or think less of someone if they aren't a Dragon Ball fan, I merely think they are a lower lifefor- I mean.... someone with different tastes.
 
CloverDragon03 said:
The standards simply say that higher multipliers require higher scrutiny, which is exactly what was followed when said multipliers were established. Nothing needs revising here
Click to expand...
Well, the current multiplier is now much higher since the base of anything like ssj2 ans above is 500x as of late. Which would increase the multiplier number exponentially
 
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