[Accepted] Kishin Seiken (Demonic Sword) Multiplier

[TheGreatJedi13]

So agree to everything else?

Yes the rest I agree similar to Mrkerf

 

[Pyro9278]

Not really as Johan copies UI Daniel's perfect body, techs and physiology, not his UI itself of his stats 1-1 that he saw him using. Johan doens't have UI Daniel's UI, he just has his tech, perfect body and physiology that I've already stated and is even shown in the manhwa, also Johan's UI copy has shown to overpower opponents and isn't shown to be as strong as his opponents so he doens't copy his weakness either, and UI Daniel's stats while fighting Johan comes under his weakness... WHICH HE DOENS'T COPY.

Think of it as he copies 'the perfect body and perfect machine-like movements' or at least tries to imitate it to say the least because it's still not as perfect as UI Daniel himself obviously because UI Copy has his own weakness, being it's 10 seconds time. But what he does NOT copy he his weakness because not only Johan's copy is not perfect enough to copy stats like Jinyoung does but he just copies the techniques because Johan doens't know about UI Daniel's weakeness, neither would he like to copy a weakness either.

That's actually pretty stupid if u think about it because Johan also copies MK's CQC but he JUST copies the TECHNIQUE CQC, not MK's stats while HE uses CQC because if he did, he'd be broken af and would create narrative inconsistency and it's even shown that he doens't copy stats, same applies for opponents at his level too js like his stronger. You just don't understand how Johan's copy works.

So we would have to assume that Johan is being enhanced by the techniques he copied from Daniel UI, which is a different amplifier and probably an unquantifiable one, but I suppose it makes sense.

 

[Pettam33]

I do agree with Mrkerf.

But the kishin sekin do hinges on a lot of assumption. Seeing how the verse also has inconsistent scaling for gun park.

It would be better to not assume 3x scaling. So I disagree with kishin sekin

Disagree as well. The DHS hinges on the fact that the opponents it's used against is off guard and actively underestimating said users of DHS. Under normal circumstances, It's pretty ineffective due to it's usage conditions of needing its opponent to be underestimating the user.

 

[WindyAttack]

Disagree as well. The DHS hinges on the fact that the opponents it's used against is off guard and actively underestimating said users of DHS. Under normal circumstances, It's pretty ineffective due to it's usage conditions of needing its opponent to be underestimating the user.

This has no co relation or changes anything about it being the strongest technique

 

[Pettam33]

Disagreeing with DHS (for clarity). Everything else I'm hesitantly agreeing with.

 

[Aksh_sky]

Disagree as well. The DHS hinges on the fact that the opponents it's used against is off guard and actively underestimating said users of DHS. Under normal circumstances, It's pretty ineffective due to it's usage conditions of needing its opponent to be underestimating the user.

"Disagree aswell"

Bro you're not a mod, why're you replying to him as if you are. Anyways, the multiplier has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO with it's usage. It's based on a statement.

 

[Pettam33]

This has no co relation or changes anything about it being the strongest technique

I agree, It's the strongest when your opponent is off guarded. I believe the entire purpose of the attack is to be utilized when your opponent thinks your weak, thus your holding back, and the DHS capitalizes on it.

 

[WindyAttack]

I agree, It's the strongest when your opponent is off guarded. I believe the entire purpose of the attack is to be utilized when your opponent thinks your weak, thus your holding back, and the DHS capitalizes on it.

Just so you know Gun made a distinction between using this strategy and using demonic sword

"When opponent let's his guard down use your strongest attack" This means It being the strongest attack has no co realation with opponent being off guard

 

[Pettam33]

"Disagree aswell"

Bro you're not a mod, why're you replying to him as if you are. Anyways, the multiplier has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO with it's usage. It's based on a statement.

I'm agreeing with him, since he's the only one that I've seen disagree too. No reason for it to be a multiplier given how it works in general. CQC and DK isn't contingent on your opponents lowering their guards, which unquetionably makes them solid amps.

DHS is fundamentally iffier due to how it works as a whole within the verse. And like I've told windy, it's the strongest attack when your opponent considers you actual worm food. It's implied to be ineffective otherwise, or not a substantial increase like 3×.

 

[Pettam33]

Just so you know Gun made a distinction between using this strategy and using demonic sword

"When opponent let's his guard down use your strongest attack" This means It being the strongest attack has no co realation with opponent being off guard

You just proved my point about it being contingent on your opps letting their guard down then... It's just NOT reliable due to how or WHEN it's supposed to be used. There hasn't been a single instance when it's truly utilized against someone who isn't off their guard (Like CQC)... Anyways, if it gets accepted, let it get accepted. I'm done here.

 

[WindyAttack]

You just proved my point about it being contingent on your opps letting their guard down then... It's just NOT reliable due to how or WHEN it's supposed to be used. There hasn't been a single instance when it's truly utilized against someone who isn't off their guard (Like CQC)... Anyways, if it gets accepted, let it get accepted. I'm done here.

Gun Literally made a distinction why would he make a distinction if these two things were contingent?

 

[Pyro9278]

You just proved my point about it being contingent on your opps letting their guard down then... It's just NOT reliable due to how or WHEN it's supposed to be used. There hasn't been a single instance when it's truly utilized against someone who isn't off their guard (Like CQC)... Anyways, if it gets accepted, let it get accepted. I'm done here.

That Daniel uses his attack with enemies with the low guard does not mean that the attack is not strong, there is not the slightest inherent relationship between one thing and another. Daniel only uses it to create a strategy because he knows that he is physically inferior to the people with whom he usually fights, so if he tried to attack with his strongest technique and the enemy anticipated it, the whole fight would probably end. It’s more a matter of skill than strength.

 

[Pyro9278]

That Daniel uses his attack with enemies with the low guard does not mean that the attack is not strong, there is not the slightest inherent relationship between one thing and another. Daniel only uses it to create a strategy because he knows that he is physically inferior to the people with whom he usually fights, so if he tried to attack with his strongest technique and the enemy anticipated it, the whole fight would probably end. It’s more a matter of skill than strength.

If you don’t believe me then try telling a boxer your next move and tell me what the result might be. Plot twist: He will counteract it

 

[Pyro9278]

Agree:

@MrKerf [Staff Vote] (Agress With 3x Multiplier of Kishin Sekin / Feint and Counter & Death Kick / Death Hand) @TheGreatJedi13 [Staff Vote] (Agrees With Feint and Counter, Death Kick, Death Hand Having a at least 3x multiplier)

The 3x of DH and DK’s Unique Skills is already accepted, technically the CRT could already be considered accepted. Anyway, although I disagree with the reasoning of CQC < Demonic Sword, I do agree that based on the logic of the Unique Skills it can be determined that Demonic Sword would have at least a 3x in AP.

 

[CatLover313]

The 3x of DH and DK’s Unique Skills is already accepted, technically the CRT could already be considered accepted. Anyway, although I disagree with the reasoning of CQC < Demonic Sword, I do agree that based on the logic of the Unique Skills it can be determined that Demonic Sword would have at least a 3x in AP.

If the CRT wants to apply the rest of the multipliers and be closed, it can. Though Kishen rn is inconclusive and I believe they'll beed to be a 3 to 1 staff vote for it's acceptance (feel free to correct me). So more waiting involved.

 

[WindyAttack]

If the CRT wants to apply the rest of the multipliers and be closed, it can. Though Kishen rn is inconclusive and I believe they'll beed to be a 3 to 1 staff vote for it's acceptance (feel free to correct me). So more waiting involved.

i kinda dmed Anstiva to Inquire about what to do in this scenario since I'm not sure too

Also would we need to close this CRT to get OVT and DS Multiplier applied or it's already applied when the CRT is still open

 

[WindyAttack]

The 3x of DH and DK’s Unique Skills is already accepted, technically the CRT could already be considered accepted. Anyway, although I disagree with the reasoning of CQC < Demonic Sword, I do agree that based on the logic of the Unique Skills it can be determined that Demonic Sword would have at least a 3x in AP.

Arguments?

 

[CatLover313]

i kinda dmed Anstiva to Inquire about what to do in this scenario since I'm not sure too

Also would we need to close this CRT to get OVT and DS Multiplier applied or it's already applied when the CRT is still open

If you're fine with concluding the thread, you can apply the OVT and DS, and close it (but it'll lead to Kishen being inconclusive), because technically, you're only suppose to apply if you're fine with closing it because technically, another staff member could just come in and disagree with everything.

 

[WindyAttack]

If you're fine with concluding the thread, you can apply the OVT and DS, and close it (but it'll lead to Kishen being inconclusive), because technically, you're only suppose to apply if you're fine with closing it because technically, another staff member could just come in and disagree with everything.

Just close it atp then we'd see kishin sekin later

 

[CatLover313]

Just close it atp then we'd see kishin sekin later

You can ask a staff member to close this on the all-purpose thread

 

[WindyAttack]

You can ask a staff member to close this on the all-purpose thread

How to do that

 

[CatLover313]

How to do that

Just ask for someone to close the thread here: https://vsbattles.com/threads/all-purpose-request-thread-new-forum.107534/page-679#post-7838436

Though I’d update the thread title and put a conclusion in the OP saying something like kishen is inconclusive but the rest were accepted with the stated multiplier numbers.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Has the accepted changes been applied yet?

 

[WindyAttack]

Has the accepted changes been applied yet?

Just waiting for someone to close the thread