(DBS) Broly vs (Tournament of Power) Jiren

[ZERO7772]

Lol, no Broly re-telling please. All you are gonna get is longer version with much worse animation and pointless talking and waste of time.

Literally the only reason people want retelling is just so they can apply anime rules "main power-scaling" to the movie. Which creators obviously don't care about.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

Like I said, I'd only tolerate it, if it was worth it. The chances of that happening are practically zero, sooooo...best not to even enteratin the notion of that.

In other news, what's the vote count??

 

[Mr._Common_Sense]

Ok, last derail, but we may not have to worry about another retailing. It seems the next movie is already in the works.

 

[Stonecoldstunner]

Jump Festa was garbage, no DBS anime return news, or any ground breaking announcements either, disappointing. Also has a conclusion for this matchup been reached ? Quicker we reach one, we can close the thread.

 

[Chartate101]

no problem with the thread taking a while

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

I think the Vote Count is like:

Broly: 5 (CryoTheMayo, Chartate101, Unforgiven0815, AguilaR101, LightinAnt)

Jiren: 3 (JohnCenaNation, Endless Astrograph Sorcerer, My area)

Inconclusive: 4 (TheC2, JackJoyce, ZERO7772, Dr Transparent)

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

GinDan says that Broly stomps Jiren but didn't given any reasoning, not even 'FRA'. So we can't really count that.

Inksaness also voted for Broly but that is based on powerscaling that doesn't really make sense. Again, nothing points that Base Movie Goku is superior to MUI Goku.

Speaking of powerscaling, I think we've established that there's a very clear lack of information we need and have no true comparison to be able to compare Broly and Jiren at this point. So really, how valid are the votes for either Jiren or Broly?

EDIT: Allow me to elaborate a little further for anyone just coming in to the debate. The powerscaling for the Broly Movie:

Whis>>SSB Gogeta>>LSS Broly>>SS Gogeta=SS Broly>>SSB Goku & Vegeta=Ikari Broly>>SSG Goku & Vegeta>>SS Vegeta=Broly

The biggest problem there is we don't know how that relates to MUI Goku and LB Jiren. The relevant powerscaling would look like this:

Zeno>>Grand Priest>>Angels (Including Whis)>>Enraged MUI Goku>>MUI Goku=LB Jire>>Full Power Jire>>>>(Everyone else in the ToP)

Basically we know that all relevant parties are weaker than Whis (& the other Angels) but not how they relate in comparsion to one another without more credible statements and feats. There's just no direct comparison to be had and they all fall under this umbrella of 'Really strong by still not Whis level'.

NOTE: I didn't include Beerus because he's really not needed and it's kind of hard to plug him into the powerscaling because he hasn't fought anyone since the first arc and all we have are all these kind of wishy-washy statements. Hence, I don't feel comfortable putting him in there and he's not really crucial in the big picture. In conclusion, his addition needlessly complicates things.

 

[Chartate101]

YOU're stronger than Beerus!!!

YOU're stonger than Beerus!!!

EVERYBODY'S STRONGER THAN BEERUS!!!

 

[Stonecoldstunner]

Don't forget to add that PROBABLY part to plot wank Beerus, instead of outright saying it LOL. But yeah I voted for Jiren, easy clap.

 

[JackJoyce]

What about Zeno's bodyguards?

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

they're irrelevant

 

[Ovrhide]

Besides all official sources calling him the strongest opponent goku ever faced, the only concrete thing both jiren and broly have in common is that they both have likely surpassed hakaishin level (both above beerus)

So i see official votes go as follow

Jiren: 0 Broly: 2 Inconclusive: 1

And this fight WILL end without a winer since we need more info to FULLY understand where broly lies in power other than being > beerus.

 

[Chartate101]

I'm pretty sure Jiren has gottem votes...

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Well I still have my vote for Broly the Legendary Body Builder.

 

[FallenProfit]

Besides all official sources calling him the strongest opponent goku ever faced, the only concrete thing both jiren and broly have in common is that they both have likely surpassed hakaishin level (both above beerus)

So i see official votes go as follow

Jiren: 0 Broly: 2 Inconclusive: 1

And this fight WILL end without a winer since we need more info to FULLY understand where broly lies in power other than being > beerus.

The source stated he was the strongest saiyan only, broly isnt stronger than jiren

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

Ok so, vote count would be like:

Broly: 6 (CryoTheMayo, Chartate101, Unforgiven0815, AguilaR101, LightinAnt, Dangai Ichigo)

Jire: 4 (JohnCenaNation, Endless Astrograph Sorcerer, My area, Stonecoldstunner)

Inconclusive: 4 (TheC2, JackJoyce, ZERO7772, Dr Transparent)

This is taking into consideration the sheer ambguity surrounding this fight and trying to respect that people have differing opinions on the situation. If nothing else it also lets us keep up with who thinks what.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

I voted Broly as well

 

[Ovrhide]

The source stated he was the strongest saiyan only, broly isnt stronger than jiren

No. The statement was "the opponent goku and co. are up against is the strongest, so those of you who believe goku will win may be dissapointed" and after that it mentioned broly having power likely beyond hakaishin level. https://mobile.twitter.com/herms98/status/1025416473068466177?lang=e

That quote mentioned nothing about being the strongest saiyan specifically.

 

[Ovrhide]

Ok so, vote count would be like:

Broly: 6 (CryoTheMayo, Chartate101, Unforgiven0815, AguilaR101, LightinAnt, Dangai Ichigo)

Jire: 4 (JohnCenaNation, Endless Astrograph Sorcerer, My area, Stonecoldstunner)

Inconclusive: 4 (TheC2, JackJoyce, ZERO7772, Dr Transparent)

This is taking into consideration the sheer ambguity surrounding this fight and trying to respect that people have differing opinions on the situation. If nothing else it also lets us keep up with who thinks what.

Te official votes are in the OP. Votes dont vount unless making an argument thats valid.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

Just because the OP hasn't updated, doesn't mean that any other votes are invalid or something. The OP is not the only person who can keep track of votes. I have seen this done in threads and have done it myself numerous times.

Also, valid arguments? There are legit arguments for Broly, Jiren and Inconclusive. There only two people who made votes that we can't actually count.

 

[Warren_Valion]

This fight is ambiguous, but I'm leaning more towards Broly.

Why?

Because his power is MAXIMUM! Nuff said, really

 

[Inksanesss]

Ok so, vote count would be like:

Broly: 6 (CryoTheMayo, Chartate101, Unforgiven0815, AguilaR101, LightinAnt, Dangai Ichigo)

Jire: 4 (JohnCenaNation, Endless Astrograph Sorcerer, My area, Stonecoldstunner)

Inconclusive: 4 (TheC2, JackJoyce, ZERO7772, Dr Transparent)

This is taking into consideration the sheer ambguity surrounding this fight and trying to respect that people have differing opinions on the situation. If nothing else it also lets us keep up with who thinks what.

Te official votes are in the OP. Votes dont vount unless making an argument thats valid.

I vote for Broly FRA

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

Ok so:

Broly: 8-9 (CryoTheMayo, Chartate101, Unforgiven0815, AguilaR101, LightinAnt, Dangai Ichigo, Zamasu Chan, Inksaness, Warren Valion(?))

Jire: 4 (JohnCenaNation, Endless Astrograph Sorcerer, My area, Stonecoldstunner)

Inconclusive: 4 (TheC2, JackJoyce, ZERO7772, Dr Transparent)

 

[Chartate101]

This fight is ambiguous, but I'm leaning more towards Broly.

Why?

Because his power is MAXIMUM! Nuff said, really

Thats not a valid reason

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

This fight is ambiguous, but I'm leaning more towards Broly.

Why?

Because his power is MAXIMUM! Nuff said, really

Thats not a valid reason

True enough.

@Warren

You joking? You serious?

I'm sorry if I seem little all over the place tonight. I'm a tad tipsy and working out of my system.

 

[Warren_Valion]

This fight is ambiguous, but I'm leaning more towards Broly.

Why?

Because his power is MAXIMUM! Nuff said, really

Thats not a valid reason

You don't think I'm serious, right?

Personally, I'm inconclusive on the fight FRA.

Though Broly is likely superior, I think it is too ambiguous to determine a victor.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

Gotcha.

Broly: 8 (CryoTheMayo, Chartate101, Unforgiven0815, AguilaR101, LightinAnt, Dangai Ichigo, Zamasu Chan, Inksaness)

Jire: 4 (JohnCenaNation, Endless Astrograph Sorcerer, My area, Stonecoldstunner)

Inconclusive: 5 (TheC2, JackJoyce, ZERO7772, Dr Transparent, Warren Valion)

 

[Peter1129]

Oh right I forgot to vote here.

I'm voting for Broly due to statements from multiple sources stating he's the strongest enemy Goku and co. has faced. Also going by powerscaling Broly should be much stronger than Jiren since as a SS1 he's able to keep up with SS1 Gogeta who is 40x stronger than his base form that is tens of times stronger than Goku + Vegeta's Full Power. The former was also stated in an interview to be close to the lvl of the Gods after the ToP.

 

[Stonecoldstunner]

How is Broly winning this fight the majority of the time is my question, Jiren is most likely going to kill him or at least knock him out before he could get too powerful. Jiren was also fighting SSBE Vegeta, Kaioken*20 Goku, 17 and Freeza at the same time, and still dominated those fights without full power. Jiren claps so hard it's ridiculous.

 

[Peter1129]

Post-ToP SSB Goku is far stronger than Post-2nd UIS SSBKK Goku who fought Jiren. Everybody seems to forget that with every usage of UIS Goku gains a huge power boosts due to breaking his limits. Also Broly has multiple statements of being strongest enemy they have faced after the ToP.

 

[Chartate101]

Thats not a valid reason
You don't think I'm serious, right?

Personally, I'm inconclusive on the fight FRA.

Though Broly is likely superior, I think it is too ambiguous to determine a victor.

I didn't think you were serious, but clearly the person counting votes did cuz they counted yours

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

I already corrected the votes a little while ago. No worries.

 

[Stonecoldstunner]

Peter1129
We can't calculate how much more power he's gained since then, sure he's gotten stronger but by how much ? Is he comparable to MUI Goku, 3rd UIS ? It's so arbitrary that it's pointless to guess, and how much time has passed since the tournament.?On the Db website it stated Goku and Vegeta have yet to reach the realm of the gods, so obviously they haven't improved that greatly since the TOP.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

Also, no one has forgotten that Goku kept getting more powerful with every usage UIS. Heck, Goku was improving even with MUI.

LB Jiren kept up with MUI Goku still improving in power and MUI's crazy skill level. Also, Jiren has statements of being the strongest in the multiverse and was regarded as such even while supressed...and LB Jiren is still far above that.

 

[Stonecoldstunner]

Even then, surpressed Jiren from 110 is stronger than Belmod as when he powered up in 124, Belmod said he'd never felt that much energy from Jiren, and he kept using more power from then on, Jesus Christ ,I'm now realising how hard Jiren stomps.

 

[CodeAgnth]

Going with Broly fra

 

[Peter1129]

@Stonecoldstunner We actually could give a rough estimate due to statements and feats.

Pre-UIS SSB Goku was getting owned by LSS1 Kale. And he was far weaker than the U7 Spirit Bomb and Casual Jiren even with SSBKK.

After the First UIS SSG Goku managed to stomp LSS2 Kale who is much stronger than LSS1 Kale who was constantly stated by SSB lvl characters to be a threat. His SSBKK became comparable to LSS1 Kefla who was stated by Whis to be on par with the U7 Spirit Bomb.

After the Second UIS SSB Goku became stronger than the First UIS as he managed to force Jiren into using more power than he did against the First UIS. And his SSBKK surpassed his Second UIS as he managed to keep up with Jiren using a hint of his true power who is stronger than LSS2 Kefla.

After the Third UIS/Complete UI Base Goku became stronger than Android 17 + Golden Frieza even while being heavily weakened. And there was an interview that said Post-ToP (Post-Third UIS/UI) Goku's Full Power is close to the lvl of the Gods. And we learned that the Third UIS might be stronger than Beerus which should scale to the other GoDs. So Post-ToP Goku's Full Power is near the Third UIS.

Fusion is stated to be (Fusee 1 + Fusee 2) x tens of times. So Base Gogeta should be far stronger than the GoDs since he has the combined powers of Post-ToP Goku and Vegeta Full Power multiplied by tens of times.

So the statements of SS1 Broly being the strongest enemy after the ToP is consistent because he could keep up with SS1 Gogeta who is far stronger than his base that is already logically far stronger than the GoDs.

 

[Stonecoldstunner]

The reasons for Broly winning are just guide statements to hype the movie."The strongest character in Dragon Ball history", obvious hyperbole.

 

[Peter1129]

Even then, surpressed Jiren from 110 is stronger than Belmod as when he powered up in 124, Belmod said he'd never felt that much energy from Jiren, and he kept using more power from then on, Jesus Christ ,I'm now realising how hard Jiren stomps.

Casual Jiren being stronger than the GoDs has already been contradicted multiple times in th ToP. He's only stronger than the GoDs at full power and in his Limit Break Form.

 

[Stonecoldstunner]

Nope, Belmod said he was stronger in 110, and stated HIMSELF, that he'd never felt that much power from Jiren,

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

Even then, surpressed Jiren from 110 is stronger than Belmod as when he powered up in 124, Belmod said he'd never felt that much energy from Jiren, and he kept using more power from then on, Jesus Christ ,I'm now realising how hard Jiren stomps.

Casual Jiren being stronger than the GoDs has already been contradicted multiple times in th ToP. He's only stronger than the GoDs at full power and in his Limit Break Form.

Ummmm....

Universe level+ (Even with his power massively held back, Jiren's strength was stated by Whis to be either within or above the domain of Gods of Destruction, terrifying Beerus.

Straight from Jire 's AP justification for his Base key.