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(DBS) Broly vs (Tournament of Power) Jiren

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Also no, Goku was holding back against Kale in their first battle, because firstly he was unscathed during their battle, and Kale was one shotted by Jiren, while Goku managed to draw a fight from him. I don't have the patience to reply to your paragraph, too late to be bothered.
 
That doesn't mean anything when every case after the ToP contradicts Casual Jiren being stronger than the GoDs.

Unless you really believe Post-2nd UIS SSB Goku and SSBE Vegeta are stronger than GoDs even though statements say they aren't. Even after the ToP.
 
TheC2 said:
Ummmm....

Universe level+ (Even with his power massively held back, Jiren's strength was stated by Whis to be either within or above the domain of Gods of Destruction, terrifying Beerus.

Straight from Jire 's AP justification for his Base key.
Click to expand...
That line needs to be removed than since it's heavily contradicted later on in the ToP.
 
They are unironically, Goku and Vegeta are both stronger than some of the GoD's, the baseline level for a GoD is SSB level shown in the manga and anime,and Vegeta defeated GoD Toppo.
 
The manga is not the same as the anime. We've been over this way too many times. They have completely different power levels.

Baseline GoD lvl isn't SSB lvl. Even Toppo a novice GoD is stronger than the Second UIS.
 
And SSBE Vegeta beat novice GoD Toppo. Supressed Jiren is still stronger than either of them.

What do we have that contradicts Jiren being either within or beyond the GoDs? Whis says it, Beerus is scared of Jiren's power while he's supressed, Belmod confirms that Jiren is stronger than him, and Supressed Jiren is still stronger than SSBE Vegeta who beat GoD Toppo.

Also, why is Second UIS being brought up? Goku went UIS 3 times and Jiren was stronger than all them. Goku didn't outclass Fullpower Jiren until he went MUI.
 
And like I've already said before. Even the weakest GoD in the anime is stronger than the Second UIS.
 
Being a novice GoD doesn't matter, even Freeza who's never had godly training in his life overpowered a Hakai from a GoD. Hell, Goku in the Exhibition matches was said to have power equal to the gods.
 
Peter1129 said:
And like I've already said before. Even the weakest GoD in the anime is stronger than the Second UIS.
Click to expand...
So is supressed Jiren and he's stronger than than Third UIS. What's your point??
 
Frieza struggles to overpower a small portion of Hakai from Sidra. Toppo shot a bigger one and instantly overpowered Golden Frieza.

That line is complete BS since we learned later on that the GoDs are Third UIS lvl.
 
Jiren has four major states during the ToP.

Episode 110 Casual Jiren who was comparable to the First UIS.

Episode 123 Hint of True Power Jiren who is stronger than the Second UIS.

Episode 127 Full Power Base Jiren who is stronger than the Third UIS.

Episode 130 Limit Break Jiren who is somewhat comparable to the complete UI.

You are trying to claim Episode 110 Jiren is stronger than GoDs even though this is heavily contradicted later on in the ToP when multiple characters become stronger than Episode 110 Jiren via powerscaling. Also it's late so I gtg now bye.
 
No, I said that Jiren, even while supressed, was within the realm of GoDs in power. Supressed Jiren is beyond GoD Toppo. You can throw around novice all you want, but a GoD is a GoD.

Also, if you really have a problem with Jiren's AP justification, make a CRT for it, if it really needs to be removed.
 
Is it THAT hard for people to comrpehend that the GoD aren't equal or that strong ? Belmod states that Jiren is unbeatable even by him, Jiren powers up even further to a point where Belmod states he's never felt such power from Jiren EVER, Goku in the Exhibition matches is RIVALLING GoD, and gets even MORE powerful during the tournament. Vegeta slaps GoD Toppo, and Jiren swats him away like a fly. Jiren>>Broly until enough proof is gathered to prove otherwise.
 
The 2nd Existential Seed said:
Is it really so hard to imply that SSB Goku is almost equal to UIO 3rd after MUI , Zenkai, and further training ?
Click to expand...
Could he be? Yes, possibly. Could he not be? That could also be true. The pendulam swings both ways, either argument could be valid.
 
After Broly officially hooks up with that green chick, we can finally make memes on Chad Broly vs Virgin Jiren.
 
Broly: 10 (CryoTheMayo, Chartate101, Unforgiven0815, AguilaR101, LightinAnt, Dangai Ichigo, Zamasu Chan, Inksaness, Peter1129, CodeAgnth)

Jire: 5 (JohnCenaNation, Endless Astrograph Sorcerer, My area, Stonecoldstunner, Minghaoly god)

Inconclusive: 5 (TheC2, JackJoyce, ZERO7772, Dr Transparent, Warren Valion)
 
I vote Broly for the reasons others have given for voting Broly, essentially: By multiple statements (the most powerful opponent they've ever faced, blah blah) and power-scaling feats, Broly should be literally THOUSANDS of times stronger than SS Blue Goku or Vegeta (Even in Base, Gogeta was stronger than SSJB Goku, and he ended up having to go SSJB himself in order to beat Broly, so Broly is well above SSG Gogeta, and SS God is much stronger than SSJ3, which is canonically 400 times base), and most certainly even more powerful than Jiren if he is THAT much stronger than Blue Goku.

Even if Jiren can at first manage to compensate for the gap in power with sheer skill, Broly can just get more pissed-off (lol) and grow stronger until he can no-sell all of Jiren's attacks.

Also, there's the fact that this is Dragon Ball. The next antagonist is ALWAYS stronger than the previous one. Why would that have changed? Why would there be any debate at all as to whether Jiren or Broly is more powerful? Broly is the next canon DB antagonist after Jiren, therefore yes, he is a step up in power. I know that such arguments ("he should be stronger because he's the next antagonist") hold no weight on this wiki; this is more about my own perspective, what I personally see as another bit of evidence that Broly should certainly be more powerful than Jiren. The one and only time there was ever an exception to the "next major opponent is always stronger" rule in Dragon Ball, was with the enemies who came after Beerus, due to how Beerus held back so much against Goku.

I mean, I don't see anybody doing a Nappa vs Raditz battle, or an Imperfect Cell vs Frieza battle, or Super Perfect Cell vs Buu, or Revival of F Saga Frieza vs. Hit or Goku Black. . . .you guys get the picture. Things don't work like that in this series, the next opponent is always a step up.
 
Broly's the one with 11 votes right now not Jiren. Right now it's

Broly: 11

Jiren: 6

Inconclusive: 6

Also grace period ends in a bit more than an hour.
 
TheC2 said:
Broly: 10 (CryoTheMayo, Chartate101, Unforgiven0815, AguilaR101, LightinAnt, Dangai Ichigo, Zamasu Chan, Inksaness, Peter1129, CodeAgnth)

Jire: 5 (JohnCenaNation, Endless Astrograph Sorcerer, My area, Stonecoldstunner, Minghaoly god)

Inconclusive: 5 (TheC2, JackJoyce, ZERO7772, Dr Transparent, Warren Valion)
Click to expand...
This was the vote. Now you add Goodyfresh which would make 11 votes for Broly. Add your vote and that's 6 for Jiren. As well as ChosenOrDeath which is 6 for inconclusive.
 
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