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Darkness vs Oath(Oath flame Tsuyoshi Sawada vs Yami Sukehiro)

CyborgSakumo

CyborgSakumo

937
333
Speed Equalized

Verse Equalization(Mana=Dying Will flames)

Yami's currently fighting against another gravity dude, and I'm curious about how Yami would do against this one.

AP:

Yami is far higher than 1.16 teratons. (Difference in AP here is likely negligible considering how Yami is far above this feat)

Tsuna is higher than 2.39 teratons.

Black Clover Yami Sukehiro
Tsunayoshi Sawada:2(YungManzi,Rocker1189)

Yami Sukehiro:

Inconclusive:4(MindControl116,XDragnoir,Litentric Teon,Epsilon R)


Sawada Tsunayoshi Vongola Gear
Tsunayoshi Sawada
 
Absorb it with zero point breakthrough revised and make himself stronger, dodge it with precog from Hyper Intutition, Block it with power-null from Mantello de Primo
 
Spatial durability negation?

Even discounting the fact that I believe Hyper Intuition is way more OP than what his profile and past verses battles would suggest.Tsuna at this point is absurdly skilled.

There's also Mantello Di Primo, if it looks like he won't be able to dodge.

It's funny how every time I go over my notes for KHR verses battles, I find some crazy shit that I completely missed/didn't think much of initially.
 
From what I understand their precog is about equal , Yami has Ki-sensing , Tsuna has hyper-intuition .They both can use it to predict the opponents next move.Now tsuna's hyper-intution is slightly better all around because of the clairvoyance , it isn't in character for Yami to try sneak attacks anyway and it applies both way because Yami can sense Ki to block sneak attacks. Edit:

A lot of their abilities in general cancel the other's out.

Tsuna's gravity manipulation is negated by Yami's black moon.

Yami's long range-attacks are negated by any combination of Mantello de Primo, ZeroPoint breakthrough revised, or Precog.

Tsuna's big attacks X-burner , XX-burner are negated by Yami's black hole.

Though,in my opinion yami has the advantage in close range via mana-zone and black-moon/IA techniques.
 
What is Yami first move IC? He uses all his spells at the same time? Also, i think Tsuna was able to destroy Enma Kozato's black holes, so he can probably do the same here.
 
I always see things about Yami's black moon.

Can I have a scan please, of what it can nullify. I always thought black hole and black moon were absorption, not power nullification (which Tsuna is resistant to anyway, iirc). I'm a bit confused on how it can be used to outright stop Tsuna's gravity manip.

Also, XDragnoir makes a good point. The harmony attribute of Tsuna's flames should really let him punch through the black holes with an X-Burner or XX-Burner. Possibly even with an X-Cannon.
 
YungManzi said:
What the hell's going on here?
Click to expand...
My bad, my internet likes to troll me and i am sure triple post is a new record, baby

But yeah, i think Tsuna has actually more advantages than Yami, and Freezing GG as always.
 
It doesn't exactly "lack the power to harm" it just wouldn't be strong enough to take out Daemon, because Daemon was way stronger than him, so he needed an attack that was strong enough to take him out.

That isn't the case here, Tsuna arguably has the AP advantage.
 
I stated above tsuna doesn't have the AP advantage Yami>Berserk Black Asta > Black Divider Black Asta > Black Asta=1.16 Teratons.The scaling chain suggests he could even be possibly higher.


Enma took harmony flame xx-burner in https://w11.mangafreak.net/Read1_Katekyo_Hitman_Reborn_332 and he took nothing more than superficial injuries(who at this point had high 6-C durability).

Edit:Tsuna's non harmony flame xx-burner would have the power to harm yami however, it's doubtful it could break through black-hole. Black-hole for yami works very differently than Enma's black hole(who's black hole is widely considered to not work like a black-hole). Yami's black-hole simply absorbs spells no matter what they are. In the case of harmony flame xx-burner it makes sense, because it has power-nullification abilities, but his normal xx-burner doesn't have those properties, so it should work just like any other spell and be destroyed.
 
Eh...I mean, Tsuna scales to a feat 2x higher and via stomping someone way more powerful than the AP he scales to. But I digress.

That's not really any evidence for anything if you know the contenxt. Both Tsuna and Natsu were deliberately trying not to injure Enma. So him not being injured by it doesn't prove anything.

I also don't think anyone ever said it was a win condition, just that it's one of the many things he can use to deal with that spatial manipulation.
 
I don't think there is a "non harmony flame xx-burner." All flames have attributes and the attribute of sky flames is harmony. It's not shown to be something he ever has to actively add to his flames. It honestly seems to be pretty passive, like the storm flames. Though, admittedly, this is something I would have to find instances of to prove beyond a reasonable doubt.

Also, Tsuna has resistance to power nullification. Black moon works by erasing the mana in an area. If that's considered power nullification, which it seems like it is, then I'm not sure it'll work. Plus, it's range is limited. Tsuna being the type to fly about can draw Yami out of its range in order to use his gravity manipulation again.

Tsuna's gravity manip is also arguably more potent than Dante's. When Dante used his, it was harder for them to move and they were still standing. When Tsuna used his, they can't physically get up from the ground.
 
If you really want to play the scaling game, Black Divider Asta was stronger(in power only) than an attack that used 10 elves power(who all scale to 1 Teraton or higher), who is less than Berserk Asta who is less than Yami. Also the scaling chain for that is wrong Murkuro Spade shouldn't be included as that's what Daemon 6 Bodies is.

The black-moon negates spells not the caster itself, so it doesn't matter where Tsuna is , yami can negate gravity manipulation in his mana-zone. Look at Dante in (https://w11.mangafreak.net/Read1_Black_Clover_245,page 5) he's not in the mana-zone. Tsuna has resistance to power-nullification for himself , but his powers don't. Tsuna's gravity manip(within mana zone) is negated.

The harmony attribute is not passive it's active. Tsuna purposely chose to use harmony flames in one-attack but used different flames in another. There are other examples that prove it too.I'm not going to talk too much about Tsuna vs Dante Gravity Manip. It's difficult to tell exactly how strong tsuna's gravity manipulation and regardless yami negates it.
 
Dante's gravity manipulation is class G, as to which Yami casually fought in.

Yami's precog senses muscle movement, breathing, smell, emotional state, intent, etc, I don't see how Tsuna's Precog is better. Considering Yami via Ki off the bat can tell Tsuna is far stronger, I cannot see why he doesn't use Dimension Slash first go and simply dura neg him and kill him. The longer this fight goes on, Yami will get stronger and faster, with new techniques to boot. Coupled with that, the fact that he already has amps to at least reduce the AP gap, along with a passive mana forcefield.
 
@Milly Rocking Bandit

It was mentioned above, but Yami's dimension slash would either be absorbed by Tsuna's Zero Point Breakthrough revised, or blocked with his power-nulling mantello de primo. Also tsuna can absorb yami's power so when yami get's stronger so does tsuna. Also, while yami can learn new techniques it typically doesn't happen mid-battle, and he's never been shown getting stronger and faster mid-fight.

Edit: They both have accelerated development eitherway so they should grow at a similar rate.
 
In this instance, I don't think we'd be using verse equalization would we? Due to how specific dying will flames are and all that?
 
Dimension Slash was able to cut through Zagred's absorption spell, I don't think Tsuna can absorb it
 
Zagred's spell was life-force absorption , not power-absorption so it's not the same as Tsuna's ability 1

He didn't cut through the absporption-spell , just watched the fight he had a wide open shot, look here(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpPgx9pBULs 4:05). 2

He has mantello de primo so even if that was true, he could block it with the cloak's power-nullification 3
 
@Cyborg

1) "Also the scaling chain for that is wrong Murkuro Spade shouldn't be included as that's what Daemon 6 Bodies is."

You're right about that part, but the rest of the scaling chain holds true. Not like it matters much here.

Also... "Black Divider Asta was stronger(in power only) than an (attack that used 10 elves power(who all scale to 1 Teraton or higher)"

^If that's true, then it should be a 10x multiplier, which means he should be going against 6-B Tsuna instead. But let's continue.

2) Saying someone's power doesn't have resistance to power nullification, when they themselves do, is the definition of an oxymoron.

3) "The harmony attribute is not passive it's active."

Honestly it's questionable. Attributes of the storm, rain, and mist flames are consistently active when using them. But Sky flames don't always seem to be, but that might be because everyone has resistance to every attribute, as I theorized before.

Anyway, it's a whole rabbit hole to go down which will need nothing short of a CRT to actually discuss.

4) "Yami's precog senses muscle movement, breathing, smell, emotional state, intent, etc, I don't see how Tsuna's Precog is better."

As I said, there's a legit argument Tsuna's "Precog" is OP as all hell, and the main reason why he doesn't seem to spam it is because the people he's fighting against also have it (albeit, not as good as his).

Tsuna's Hyper Intuition feats vary wildly. From stuff like Mind/Memory Reading and Supernatural Luck, to Battle Precog via muscle movements, to flat out danger sense, emotion sensing, accelerated development, seeing through illusions, and just plain sensing Dying Will Flames, and probably more stuff that I just can't think of at the moment.

The reason why it's so lacking in the description department is because we weren't really sure what to make of it all tbh. Simply deciding to go with the safer option.
 
Ok, then is it cool, if I switch this to 6-B tsuna, as Yami scales much higher than an attack that had 10 elves plus yuno(12.76 Teratons(11x Multiplier)) and 6-B tsuna scales just above 14.31 Teratons. I don't think Tsuna get's any notable abilities in-between then so it would just be an AP increase.
 
Nope, Yami was not in the lower-one he was in the in-between area, because he was forced down by the spell then licht used his light on charla which made he spell open for them, which gave them a clear shot, both in the anime and the manga this is consistent.

Edit: This is further evidenced by the fact in https://w11.mangafreak.net/Read1_Black_Clover_211 page 11 he's shown clearly inside the life-absorption spell but charla's light is keeping it away from them.
 
CyborgSakumo said:
Ok, then is it cool, if I switch this to 6-B tsuna, as Yami scales much higher than an attack that had 10 elves plus yuno(12.76 Teratons(11x Multiplier)) and 6-B tsuna scales just above 14.31 Teratons. I don't think Tsuna get's any notable abilities in-between then so it would just be an AP increase.
Click to expand...
First you need to do a CRT to actually add a 6B key.
 
Ok,then for the purposes of this(since we're not doing a CRT rn) can we please just say that their AP's are relatively equal(since Tsuna has a long scaling chain behind him) with Yami's possibly being higher as he might be breaching 6-B territory.
 
We can just use the accepted numbers and drop the whole scaling chain/6B feats discussion, and then i will ask, can Yami resist sealing?
 
Epsilon R, ok so if yami wasn't on the highest floor, then why do we very clearly see the absorption spell next to him, when he's preparing his attack. Nothing in your scan's prove that he wasn't on the highest floor. Yami was even shown on the higher floors when he was fighting Zagred(https://w11.mangafreak.net/Read1_Black_Clover_202 page 10). There is nothing shown above him when he does the slash save for charlas's flowers, which is consistent with the the manga and the anime.

XDragnoir, Black moon might negate, but I need more info on Tsuna's resistance to power-nullification, because I don't know exactly where that came from. For now, I'm going to say he can't resist Tsuna's Zero Point Breakthrough(regular not revised), because in the manga yami has only resisted long-range attacks with it, but we've seen dante use close-range gravity magic to increase his physical stats and he was fine

YungManzi, When I said the resistance to power-nullification doesn't apply to the powers I was referencing long-range attacks specifically. Also, can you explain to me how tsuna's resistance to power-nullification exactly works because I don't remember when that was established.
 
That was before he even casted the spell.

He clearly wasn't up there when he used Dimension Slash https://v217.**********.com/manga/Black-Clover/0208-004.png

https://v217.**********.com/manga/Black-Clover/0208-004.png
 
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