Dark Matter fights another Star Warrior (Kirby vs Ultra Series)

[Peter1129]

Dark Matter:

Ultraman Dyna:

Inconclusive:

Both are 4-A

Kirby Quest Dark Matter

Heisei Era Dyna

SBA

Speed Equalized

AP Scaling

Dark Matter: >>16.88 ExaFoe

True Dark Matter > Dark Matter Blade > Drawcia Soul > Drawcia Witch = 16.88 ExaFoe

Dyna: >>>>>5.32707399864 ExaFoe (Flash Type), >>>>>15.9812219959 ExaFoe (Strong Type)

Flash Type Dyna > King Silvergon > Silvergon > Ligatron > Power Type Tiga > Tornado Type Tiga 3x> Tiga Dark > Blast Type Tiga >>> Hudra = 1.77569133288 ExaFoe

Strong Type Dyna 3x> Flash Type Dyna > Miracle Type Dyna

 

[EddisherSound]

Following

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

Employing standard debate tactic, waiting to hear what DM can do first

 

[Winter]

Took a glance at Ultraman’s profile, here’s what I can say:

Dark Matter:

Wincons:

• AP advantage
• Possession allows for easy incapacitation
• Mid-High Regen
• Huge range advantage (if it matters)

Ultraman Dyna:

Wincons:

• Resists Dark Matter’s corruptive influence
• Seems to generally have more hax that go in his favor (Sealing and Spatial related abilities like Blackholes and BFR, among other things)



My questions are on how Dyna’s haxes work and what does he start with. Dark Matter is probably going to start with either possession or projectile attacks that would probably one-shot.

 

[EddisherSound]

Dyna starts with either ranged energy attack or cqc
His energy attack damages the mind and soul of his enemies

 

[Peter1129]

I wouldn’t really say Dark Matter has the AP advantage since Blast Type Tiga was already capable of one shotting Hudra and Dyna scales far above him. So Dyna’s actual stats would be high enough to one shot characters of the value he scales to. Flash Type Dyna has enough strength to one shot 5.32 ExaFoe characters while Strong Type Dyna is capable of one shotting 15.98 ExaFoe characters.

And he can still amp his strength depending on what Dark Matter does on Earth. Since Ultras can increase their strength via emotions and willpower anywhere from as low as a small boost less than 2x up to like tens of thousands of times their normal stats. Dyna does this quite often throughout his series when wanting to protect something. With the highest emotion amp got being in his finale when he one shot Gransphere who can block attacks that one shot characters whom are far far far stronger than 532.71 ExaFoe due to his desire to protect Earth.

So as long as Dark Matter doesn’t attack innocents or the planet randomly and anger Dyna their AP should be about the same. But if he does oh boy.

 

[EddisherSound]

Possession allows for easy incapacitation

How does the possession work?

 

[WanderingGecko]

Following.

Will comment later.

 

[Winter]

I wouldn’t really say Dark Matter has the AP advantage since Blast Type Tiga was already capable of one shotting Hudra and Dyna scales far above him. So Dyna’s actual stats would be high enough to one shot characters of the value he scales to. Flash Type Dyna has enough strength to one shot 5.32 ExaFoe characters while Strong Type Dyna is capable of one shotting 15.98 ExaFoe characters.

And he can still amp his strength depending on what Dark Matter does on Earth. Since Ultras can increase their strength via emotions and willpower anywhere from as low as a small boost less than 2x up to like tens of thousands of times their normal stats. Dyna does this quite often throughout his series when wanting to protect something. With the highest emotion amp got being in his finale when he one shot Gransphere who can block attacks that one shot characters whom are far far far stronger than 532.71 ExaFoe due to his desire to protect Earth.

So as long as Dark Matter doesn’t attack innocents or the planet randomly and anger Dyna their AP should be about the same. But if he does oh boy.

Using scaling to ramp up AP up by several exafoe doesn’t really make much sense. He’s obviously much stronger than that but Dark Matter still has a decent gap (like 3x) over Dyna without transformations. Dyna isn’t put into a situation where his emotional amps work since this is a straight 1v1 with no stakes on either side. How do his transformations work?

 

[Winter]

How does the possession work?

Physical contact, he kinda just rams into them and takes over their bodies.

 

[Peter1129]

Using scaling to ramp up AP up by several exafoe doesn’t really make much sense. He’s obviously much stronger than that but Dark Matter still has a decent gap (like 3x) over Dyna without transformations. Dyna isn’t put into a situation where his emotional amps work since this is a straight 1v1 with no stakes on either side. How do his transformations work?

Yeah I know. I’m just saying that Dyna’s true AP is basically around as strong as Dark Matter with Strong Type if not a bit higher because by scaling he one shots people nearly on Dark Matter’s level. Like yeah he’s still weaker in Base/Flash Type but it’s not too big of a gap. Like Dyna has defeated characters with AP and speed higher than him via his versatile abilities and hax. So AP isn’t the only deciding factor in this fight.

He transforms like this. Also it’s pretty much instant.

 

[Winter]

Dyna starts with either ranged energy attack or cqc
His energy attack damages the mind and soul of his enemies

How does the energy attack work? Is it like a laser beam or something else?

 

[EddisherSound]

How do his transformations work?

Pretty much instantaneous, characters on the same level of speed as Dyna couldn't react to his transformation

 

[Mr.Cutlery]

How does the energy attack work? Is it like a laser beam or something else?

There's various ways he does it. Beams are the most common, yes. He could also coat the energy on his body.

And while I'm at it, I should specify that in each transformation, he can Type Change once. Even so, Strong Type closes the gap with that 3x boost, and Miracle has a plethora of hax like BFR and Telekinesis to ensure his beams all hit.

 

[Winter]

Yeah I know. I’m just saying that Dyna’s true AP is basically around as strong as Dark Matter with Strong Type. Like yeah he’s still weaker in Base/Flash Type but it’s not too big. Like Dyna has defeated characters with AP and speed higher than him via his versatile abilities and hax.

He transforms like this. Also it’s pretty much instant.

He has multiple transformations too. Is strong type his go to?

This is pretty much a battle of who hits who first. Dark Matter can use phasing to avoid energy attacks and small size definitely helps a lot. Either Dark Matter gets up close and possesses him or using homing projectiles and blows him up to death. Iirc from the profile, he is building sized. He should be a relatively easy target

There's various ways he does it. Beams are the most common, yes. He could also coat the energy on his body.

And while I'm at it, I should specify that in each transformation, he can Type Change once. Even so, Strong Type closes the gap with that 3x boost, and Miracle has a plethora of hax like BFR and Telekinesis to ensure his beams all hit.

What do you mean by this? That he can only change from one form to another one time? How do his hax work (mainly BFR)

 

[EddisherSound]

Miracle has a plethora of hax like BFR and Telekinesis to ensure his beams all hit.

Even worse, one of his clones could just hold Dark Matter down with telekinesis while the others charge up the revolium beam and BFR him, or worse the one clone stuns Dark Matter while the other hold it down with telekinesis, and the main Dyna just hit it the revolium beam

 

[EddisherSound]

How do his hax work (mainly BFR)

It's a beam that sends his opponent to another dimension

 

[EddisherSound]

strong type his go to?

His go to form is miracle type, which have the BFR

Either Dark Matter gets up close and possesses him

It's not listed on the Ultra physiology page yet, but Ultras resist possession, the only time they are affected are when they are running out of energy or actively dying

he is building sized. He should be a relatively easy target

His acrobatics has allowed Dyna to dodge homing projectiles pretty easily. He should also scale to other ultras, like Ace, who could also dodge homing attacks pretty easily. Not to mention his Miracle type increases his speed and maneuverability on ground and air, almost blitz level against people comparable in speed to Flash Dyna

What do you mean by this? That he can only change from one form to another one time?

Dyna can only change form twice in a single transformation. He can only transform to his Strong and Miracle type forms from his base form, so he can only use either Strong or Miracle in a single fight.

Also, forgot to mention this, but his solgent beam, the one he fired from his base form, could one shot Kaiju that fought on equal terms with his Strong form. He has also tanked attacks from Kaiju that is comparable to his Strong form in base

 

[Peter1129]

Tbf rather than the Solgent Beam one shotting kaijus that are equal to his Strong Type. I’d say it’s closer to it one shot a weakened kaiju after it was already weakened by his other attacks. Like the beams are stronger than the power forms of ultras but the gap isn’t too the point that it one shots kaijus at full hp without weakening them first. And in series there are also cases where the power forms perform better than the base form beams.

The comparison between base form beams and power forms have always been kinda weird for Tiga and Dyna. So unless there’s an example I’m forgetting I’d say the two are all about the same level of power with the beam being slightly stronger rather than the beams being massively stronger than power forms to the point of one shotting.

And I’ve honestly always saw ultras taking attacks on par with their power forms in base as just them having high stamina/hp rather than them having durability on that level.

 

[Winter]

His go to form is miracle type, which have the BFR

It's not listed on the Ultra physiology page yet, but Ultras resist possession, the only time they are affected are when they are running out of energy or actively dying

His acrobatics has allowed Dyna to dodge homing projectiles pretty easily. He should also scale to other ultras, like Ace, who could also dodge homing attacks pretty easily. Not to mention his Miracle type increases his speed and maneuverability on ground and air, almost blitz level against people comparable in speed to Flash Dyna

Dyna can only change form twice in a single transformation. He can only transform to his Strong and Miracle type forms from his base form, so he can only use either Strong or Miracle in a single fight.

Also, forgot to mention this, but his solgent beam, the one he fired from his base form, could one shot Kaiju that fought on equal terms with his Strong form. He has also tanked attacks from Kaiju that is comparable to his Strong form in base

Ok. BFR is dodgeable still since Dark Matter can phase through the surrounding ground

Could I see an example of this? Going off the physiology page, this seems limited to external prowess.

Of his size though. Dark matter is small and so are the projectiles. Him avoiding them would be like trying to avoid a wasp stinging you. Could you explain the speed difference further with Miracle type?

Refer to the comment above this, they seemed to have covered it

 

[Peter1129]

Bump

 

[Winter]

For now seems like an incon, depends on who hits who first

 

[Peter1129]

So I guess that’s one vote for inconclusive?

 

[WanderingGecko]

I vote in favor of Dyna.

First of all, Dyna resists possession as thats like a natural resistance of the Ultras. The gap is also not that big for Dark Matter to one-shot as he's faced tougher kaijus who's attack scale higher than that of 15 ExaTons.

Looking at the character's highest range, the starting distance of this battle would be 4km as their respective range exceeds that of 4km. So they'll probably start the battle out by firing beams at each other. Then they'd start by closing the distance between them and Dark Matter tries possessing Dyna, but that fails horribly. And then Dyna realizing that this enemy of his needs something magical, he transforms into Miracle Type and uses his hax and just sends Dark Matter to god knows where.

 

[EddisherSound]

Even if the beam is technically dodgeable, Dyna can just use telekinesis to hold Dark Matter in place, or have one of his clones do it

 

[Winter]

I vote in favor of Dyna.

First of all, Dyna resists possession as thats like a natural resistance of the Ultras. The gap is also not that big for Dark Matter to one-shot as he's faced tougher kaijus who's attack scale higher than that of 15 ExaTons.

Looking at the character's highest range, the starting distance of this battle would be 4km as their respective range exceeds that of 4km. So they'll probably start the battle out by firing beams at each other. Then they'd start by closing the distance between them and Dark Matter tries possessing Dyna, but that fails horribly. And then Dyna realizing that this enemy of his needs something magical, he transforms into Miracle Type and uses his hax and just sends Dark Matter to god knows where.

The physiology page doesn’t mention possession to be a resistance and the page argues for resistance to external forces rather than being taken over from the inside. Possession should still work in this scenario

 

[Winter]

Even if the beam is technically dodgeable, Dyna can just use telekinesis to hold Dark Matter in place, or have one of his clones do it

Is the telekinesis something Dyna has used before in-character offensively? The physiology page seems pretty vague on which Ultra’s can and can’t use it on that way.

 

[Winter]

So I guess that’s one vote for inconclusive?

Yes

 

[Peter1129]

Oh yeah this match was going on. Sadly though it’s a stomp now. Dyna got upgraded because of Shinigami’s 3-C feat being accepted which he downscales from. Dyna’s now

Flash Type: 2.15931867 ZettaFoe (4-A)

Strong Type: 6.47795601 ZettaFoe (4-A+)

 

[EddisherSound]

Is the telekinesis something Dyna has used before in-character offensively? The physiology page seems pretty vague on which Ultra’s can and can’t use it on that way.

Miracle type Dyna have used his TK offensively in fights