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Dante Vs The Old Man - High 3-A quest continues

Lightning_XXI

Lightning_XXI

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3,324
Let's see what happens here

Battle for the 3rd place at High 3-A against the Old Man


- DMC1 Dante with his full arsenal

- Speed is equal

- In character


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Dante (Devil May Cry)

Dante is the protagonist of the majority of the Devil May Cry series. He, along with his twin brother Vergil, are the product of a romance between the Dark Knight Sparda and a human woman named Eva. After losing his mother to demons as a child, Dante grows up to become a demon-hunting mercenary...
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The Old Man of Wandering Mountain

The Old Man of Wandering Mountain is an elderly chronicler, who is the writer of "The Neverending Story". He lives alone in an egg-shaped home on top of the Wandering Mountain, which can be found only by chance or fate. He appears in the story when The Childlike Empress finds him and asks him to...
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Dante:

Old Man:

Inconclusive:
 
From what I saw from the discussion, his plot hax is about Fantasia, and Verse Equalization doesn't make Dante part of it

That's why he has a chance, but again, I'm neutral
 
So basically his plot hax only works on the stories he writes if that so then dante takes it but I'll wait for more arguments before voting
 
deonment said:
he cant die unless he writes his own death, he needs to write the things happening to him before they can happen to him
Click to expand...
Well, he can incap with passive fear hax, he don't need to killl him anyway

If, that still don't help, then yeah, is a stomp macth.
 
deonment said:
remember what i said earlier about he needs to write it in order for it to affect him?
yeah this is a massive ******* stomp
Click to expand...
stomp how? even if he dante doesnt have a way to kill him (which i doubt, because it sounds like NLF if he didnt deal with conceptual destuction before), the same could be said about him not being able to kill dante
 
If Dante can resist the usage of old man's plot hax,i.e fate or RW resistance,I think old man can't do much against him
 
Ordinary Fate and Reality Warping resistance won't help much against Plot Manipulation. Also pretty sure the Writer can just incapacitate with his Plot Manipulation. Also this whole needs to write things for them to happen him might be Acsaulity Type 5 depending on what the text actually says about it. So maybe look into that.
 
Everything12 said:
Ordinary Fate and Reality Warping resistance won't help much against Plot Manipulation. Also pretty sure the Writer can just incapacitate with his Plot Manipulation. Also this whole needs to write things for them to happen him might be Acsaulity Type 5 depending on what the text actually says about it. So maybe look into that.
Click to expand...
What does his plot manip do?If the usage falls under Dante's hax resistance (like changing fate) then there is literally no reason to say it will work,people just simply treat it as an almighty power tbh
 
Delta333 said:
What does his plot manip do?If the usage falls under Dante's hax resistance (like changing fate) then there is literally no reason to say it will work,people just simply treat it as an almighty power tbh
Click to expand...
Changing the Fate is one thing, changing the Plot is another thing.
A resistence to one does not give a character a resistence to the other.
 
One of the uses of Plot Hax is, for example, changing the opponent's fate inside, well, the "plot". However, since Old Man's source is from manipulating the very Plot of the story, just resisting normal fate manipulation won't be enough, since this time it comes from a higher source of "Reality Manipulation". Two characters inside a plot changing each other fates still is inside the story's plot and progression, planned by its author, while someone directly changing the plot is completely outside of it. That's why this hax is usually seen with cartoonish, toonforce users

Now sure, it's a very powerful hax but we gotta be careful to not use NLF, and I believe Plot needs actual feats to erase beings with Mid Godly regeneration and stuff like that

The other problem is that his hax limits itself to Fantasia, and going by the Verse Equalization page, I'm unsure if we can just say Dante is inside Fantasia, and his Type 4 Acausality can also help against that, we can't just continue the thread without talking about this
 
Last edited:
ThanatosX said:
Changing the Fate is one thing, changing the Plot is another thing.
A resistence to one does not give a character a resistence to the other.
Click to expand...
Again,why can't you just give me a reason instead of simply saying that? I don't care if they are the same things from the beginning or not,the final effect is what determines everything
 
Delta333 said:
Again,why can't you just give me a reason instead of simply saying that? I don't care if they are the same things from the beginning or not,the final effect is what determines everything
Click to expand...
Because Fate is something that is still inside a story, while the Plot is the story itself.
Even if the final result is the same, the important is how you reach this result. For example, Fate Manipulation and Probability Manipulation have similiar, if not identical, effects, but one change the probability of a certain thing happening, while the other change the fate so that said thing will happen.
The same thing can be said for Fate and Plot Manipulation. The first change the Fate, something that is still inside a story, so that something will happen. The other change the Plot, something that condition the story itself, so that another thing will happen.

For the rest, I don't care too much about this match, but I want to specify that Acausuality Type 4 doesn't give a character resistence to Plot Manipulation, but only to Fate Manipulation which, as I explained, is a different thing.
On top of this, depending on how the Plot Manipulation of Old Man works he can incap Dante, so he doesn't need to go past his Mid-Godly.
 
You write a long paragraph and it makes totally no sense

1.Idk if you have read Fate Manipulation page or not but it clearly said that Probability Manipulation can be one type of fate manip,your point is irrelevant here

2.You said fate manip can only control something that exists inside the plot,so does plot manip change something outside of the plot? lmao

Making something to happen is making something to happen,the way to do that has nothing do here,by logic if someone can resist thought based EE he will not resist eye based EE wtf
 
Resisting Fate does not grant resistance to Probability Manipulation and vice-versa, even Acausality Type 4 that grants protection to Fate Manipulation does not protect against Probability Manipulation as standard. So that point is moot.
 
Delta333 said:
You write a long paragraph and it makes totally no sense

1.Idk if you have read Fate Manipulation page or not but it clearly said that Probability Manipulation can be one type of fate manip,your point is irrelevant here

2.You said fate manip can only control something that exists inside the plot,so does plot manip change something outside of the plot? lmao

Making something to happen is making something to happen,the way to do that has nothing do here,by logic if someone can resist thought based EE he will not resist eye based EE wtf
Click to expand...
First of all, calm down and don't be rude.

Regarding your points:

1. This is because Fate Manipulation can be used to change probabilities too, it's not because they are the same thing. Depending on how a character is able to change Fate, said character might be able to change the probabilities, but only because a character have Fate Hax doesn't mean they also have Probability Hax. It depend on the usage.

2. Plot Manipulation change the plot itself. It's his name. Fate is something that is inside a story, while the Plot is the story itself. It doesn't change something outside the plot, but the plot itself.

And EE is EE regardless of the fact that it is thought based or sight based. The right analogy in this case would be EE and Concept based EE. Both have the same effect, they erases the target, but one erases the body, soul and mind while the other erases the concept itself of the opponent.
 
Delta333 said:
Again,why can't you just give me a reason instead of simply saying that? I don't care if they are the same things from the beginning or not,the final effect is what determines everything
Click to expand...
It's u who's completely lacking the reason here, claiming resisting Fate grants protection against Plot and that "the final effect is what determines", while we gave u the explanation why this makes no sense

Let's calm down
 
ThanatosX said:
First of all, calm down and don't be rude.

Regarding your points:

1. This is because Fate Manipulation can be used to change probabilities too, it's not because they are the same thing. Depending on how a character is able to change Fate, said character might be able to change the probabilities, but only because a character have Fate Hax doesn't mean they also have Probability Hax. It depend on the usage.

2. Plot Manipulation change the plot itself. It's his name. Fate is something that is inside a story, while the Plot is the story itself. It doesn't change something outside the plot, but the plot itself.

And EE is EE regardless of the fact that it is thought based or sight based. The right analogy in this case would be EE and Concept based EE. Both have the same effect, they erases the target, but one erases the body, soul and mind while the other erases the concept itself of the opponent.
Click to expand...
I'm still calm tho,not sure why can you think I'm not

1.I don't say they are the same thing,page of fate manip said probability manip being one type of fate manip means depend on the effect of fate manip probability manip resistance can resist it and vice versa,if there is any accepted thread that says something which is contradicticed to my point pls link it here

2.I know plot manip changes the plot lol,everyone know it,but if it still changes something not outside the plot then what is your point here when you say by yourself that fate manip also changes sth inside the plot

EE example is to explain why saying depending on the way to use hax instead of the result is wrong
 
Everything12 said:
Resisting Fate does not grant resistance to Probability Manipulation and vice-versa, even Acausality Type 4 that grants protection to Fate Manipulation does not protect against Probability Manipulation as standard. So that point is moot.
Click to expand...
So Dante's Acausality won't help him here huh

How is Old Man erasing Dante anyway ? How can he bypass Mid-Godly ?
 
Delta333 said:
I'm still calm tho,not sure why can you think I'm not

1.I don't say they are the same thing,page of fate manip said probability manip being one type of fate manip means depend on the effect of fate manip probability manip resistance can resist it and vice versa,if there is any accepted thread that says something which is contradicticed to my point pls link it here

2.I know plot manip changes the plot lol,everyone know it,but if it still changes something not outside the plot then what is your point here when you say by yourself that fate manip also changes sth inside the plot

EE example is to explain why saying depending on the way to use hax instead of the result is wrong
Click to expand...
Than we have two different conceptions of "calm".

Anyways, I don't have much time so this will be most likely my last reply to you:

1. You said it yourself, it depends on the Type of Fate Manipulation. Certain types of Fate Manipulation can make a character change the Probabilities, other types don't. The page of Fate Manipulation itself says that Fate Hax can be Probability Hax or Causuality Hax, which are two completely different things.

2. Never said that Plot Manipulation make a character change something that its outside the plot. I said that Fate is something that is inside a story, while the plot is the story itself. Never talked about something outside the story, otherwise we would enter Tier 1 territory.

And the example of EE is wrong as I explained previously, because regardless of the fact that it is thought based or sight based or contact based or anything else it is still EE regardless.

Hope that this is clear enough.
 
Something omsething never ending story joke. Honestly it's hard to say what he can do to incapacitate Dante as he has so many different ways based off how varied his Plot Manipulation is.

Also about the stuff in the beginning about the Plot Manipulation only affecting Fantasia
  • Writer of "The Neverending Story": The Old Man of Wandering Mountain is the writer of "The Neverending Story". He writes everything that happens into his book and everything he writes into his book happens. As such something he doesn't write into the book also doesn't happen. Everything he writes down becomes immutable and final.
    The Book is "The Neverending Story" and as such not only contains Fantasia, but also the human world, as demonstrated by the fact that when he writes the entire story a second time into the book, on request of The Childlike Empress, everything happens again not just in Fantasia, but also for Bastian and those he interacted with in the human world.
Click to expand...
 
So it affects the Human World, which certainly gets equalized on Verse Equalization

So Dante is in fact under his Plot Manipulation, the only thing that saves him now is if he can "survive", and that’s a hard one since now Old Man's Plot based Power Null works on him
 
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