Dante (Devil May Cry) vs Beerus

[SomebodyData]

Actually, their hax here is fundamentally the same against each other, but I see your other reasons, of course, the hakai thing is an assumption.

 

[Iron_Kirby]

My eyes bleeds from this thread

Lol

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

hakai is NOT a soul only hax

as whis said, it can destroy any opponent (if they are weaker than or presumably comparable to beerus)

and he casually used it against a shit talking ghost whoc wasnt even in a fight against beerus

 

[Aparajita]

as whis said, it can destroy any opponent (if they are weaker than or presumably comparable to beerus)

NLF.

 

[Aparajita]

https://youtu.be/UUCBTVuWAmE?t=173

Mundus casually, with a wave of his wings, creates a Universe. Dante stomps him, very easily, in the fight. He's very likely as strong as Beerus' current showings.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Dante: 14 (Cropfist, Aparajita, TISSG7Redgrave, The real cal howard, AllanSaiyan, Xanxussama1010, FateAlbane, KuuIchigo, Dbzgurl, ProfessorKukui4Life, Burning Full Fingers, PostmodernD, Iron Kirby)

Beerus: 7 (Lord Ghetsis, Aceraspire JustSomeWeirdo, SomebodyData, Theglassman12, Beerus1000, The Living Tribunal1)

 

[Aceraspire]

Dante: 14 (Cropfist, Aparajita, TISSG7Redgrave, The real cal howard, AllanSaiyan, Xanxussama1010, FateAlbane, KuuIchigo, Dbzgurl, ProfessorKukui4Life, Burning Full Fingers, PostmodernD, Iron Kirby)
Beerus: 7 (Lord Ghetsis, Aceraspire JustSomeWeirdo, SomebodyData, Theglassman12, Beerus1000, The Living Tribunal1)

Like i said,bleeding eyes from this thread

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

https://youtu.be/UUCBTVuWAmE?t=173
Mundus casually, with a wave of his wings, creates a Universe. Dante stomps him, very easily, in the fight. He's very likely as strong as Beerus' current showings.

goku was already very close to or at universe level at the start of FNF saga, he gets a zenkai by the end of the saga

he gets a boost by the end of universe 6 saga AND has kaioken x 10 and beerus is still stronger

goku keeps getting stronger through goku black saga, to the point where he can now match hit in his base form, the same hit who can at this point, go head to head with kaioken x 10 goku from universe 6 saga

so goku alone as of now is likely beyond 10 x baseline universe level

and beerus is considerably stronger than him

and his hakai can kill beings weaker than (or comparable) to him

as i said before, it is NOT a soul only hax

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

...Okay?

I mean, I don't understand why.

 

[Iron_Kirby]

goku was already very close to or at universe level at the start of FNF saga, he gets a zenkai by the end of the saga

he gets a boost by the end of universe 6 saga AND has kaioken x 10 and beerus is still stronger

goku keeps getting stronger through goku black saga, to the point where he can now match hit in his base form, the same hit who can at this point, go head to head with kaioken x 10 goku from universe 6 saga

so goku alone as of now is likely beyond 10 x baseline universe level

and beerus is considerably stronger than him

and his hakai can kill beings weaker than (or comparable) to him

as i said before, it is NOT a soul only hax

No and Zenkai's don't mean much anymore.

What? And When is that stated?

Power scaling in DBS sux

no.

Yes.

Weaker? Yes. Comparable? Almost certainly not.

Proof?

 

[Saikyou_Shinshei]

Dante easy

 

[Iron_Kirby]

reasons?

 

[Aceraspire]

Hopefully Seth or Saiyan17 or some other youtuber with knowledge will make this vs match one day.

Anyway,someone should count votes again and count those with valid reasons

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

No and Zenkai's don't mean much anymore.

What? And When is that stated?

Power scaling in DBS sux

no.

Yes.

Weaker? Yes. Comparable? Almost certainly not.

Proof?

>zenkai doesnt mean much

top kek

yeah goku just got over 10 x stronger randomly amirite

also what proof that is it not pure soul hax? cuz it was never stated to only work on souls, it destroyed zamasu completely from existance, his physical body as well

 

[Iron_Kirby]

Hopefully Seth or Saiyan17 or some other youtuber with knowledge will make this vs match one day.
Anyway,someone should count votes again and count those with valid reasons

Seth knows nothing. S17 would be good tho.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

also what proof that is it not pure soul hax? cuz it was never stated to only work on souls, it destroyed zamasu completely from existance, his physical body as well

Because that would be a massive No Limits Fallacy?

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

>not stated to be only a soul hax, yet people assume it is only soul hax

> stated to be able to destroy any foe (ofc as long as it is not stronger)

it would be NLF if i said that it can destroy any foe whatsoever without distinction

it can only work on weaker foes, and it will ofc be somewhat inefective on comparable foes

and it wont work on stronger foes

 

[Aldrecht]

Not gonna lie Tribunal. It feels like you're having a bit of a wank here.I watch the series on and off and while im no expert in the universe i can say that they have a tendency to flip flop on things. Between the movie and the series it went from beerus using something like 70% of his power to a miniscule amount that i cannot remember. I personally feel that DBS characters probably should be barred from use in vs threads until the series ends as everything is becoming far too inconsistent. As for the casual beerus argument you made above im pretty sure that OPM fanboys try to use the same argument and regularly get BTFO on that point with the same argument. Until we have calculable feats i vote inconclusive here.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

The movie powerscale does not apply to the series

In the series fight against goku, beerus was not seriously fighting him, then goku gets stronger by going SSB, he gets a zenkai after the frieza fight, he then trains for a while, then fights in the universal tournament, he gets a zenkai in the end and by now he can power up by x 10 (stil below beerus at this point even with a 10 x multiplier), then he contantly gets stronger in the goku black saga (by an unknown amount), then by now, he can put up a fight against hit, who on his last fight, grew powerful enough to fight ssb goku kaioken x 10, which means by now goku is likely 10 x stronger than he was in the tournament, and he is still weaker than beerus, so beerus is at minimum 10 x stronger than universe 6 saga goku, and universe 6 saga goku is stronger than the first time he used SSB, and keep in mind, SSB is above SSJG goku, and SSJG goku's clashes could have destroyed a universe in 3 strikes from collateral damage alone (as in the 3 striek wipe-out was left over energy from the clash)

putting it all together, current beerus shud be above 10 x baseline universal and he has a hax which can immediately defeat weaker beings and is a tieer above fighters who can resist time manipulation of various sorts

also, yes i agree with you about not using dbs characters that often since a lot of them are still changing their powers and adding on new skills, and a random new power-up to beerus may mean deleting all of his current match records

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Aren't we never ever ever allowed to hax scale unless the person who is getting the scaling directly influenced the user of said hax? (i.e. Kaguya, Galactus, Arceus)

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

Aren't we never ever ever allowed to hax scale unless the person who is getting the scaling directly influenced the user of said hax? (i.e. Kaguya, Galactus, Arceus)

what do you mean? in this case, it was seen and stated that goku was overcoming the hax by becoming stronger

he even shattered the hit's temporal dimension/ parallel world with his ki power alone (thanks to the universal scale of his ability as well)

 

[Aldrecht]

So do you guys wanna put it up to vote between admins on barring DBS character from vs threads for the time being?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

But the issue with that is we cannot just assume all characters who arent named Goku, Vegeta, Beerus etc. can resist that kind of hax just through brute power when they've never shown to resist it. It would be potential NLF's and inconsistencies. And we're already very strict about that anyways, same reason why we don't apply that to verses such as Bleach or Seint Seiya who can basically do the same thing through having greater Reitsu and Cosmos.

In addition, even if the foe is weaker, what if it was a foe who was already resistant to haxes such as that? Or even flat out immune? Beerus being stronger shouldnt mean that he can just Hakai them. And what if the opponent is coming from a verse that is the complete opposite of DB? Such as for DB it'd be Power>Hax but in reverse for the opponent it would be Hax>Power.

See the issues?

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

So do you guys wanna put it up to vote between admins on barring DBS character from vs threads for the time being?

i dont think we really need a rule

but yeah avoiding them for now would be good, i mean we havent seen the full potential of a lot of characters yet

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

But the issue with that is we cannot just assume all characters who arent named Goku, Vegeta, Beerus etc. can resist that kind of hax just through brute power when they've never shown to resist it. It would be potential NLF's and inconsistencies. And we're already very strict about that anyways, same reason why we don't apply that to verses such as Bleach or Seint Seiya who can basically do the same thing through having greater Reitsu and Cosmos.
In addition, even if the foe is weaker, what if it was a foe who was already resistant to haxes such as that? Or even flat out immune? Beerus being stronger shouldnt mean that he can just Hakai them. And what if the opponent is coming from a verse that is the complete opposite of DB? Such as for DB it'd be Power>Hax but in reverse for the opponent it would be Hax>Power.

See the issues?

>never shown to resist it

goku has, and it was clearly stated to be through brute force, he literally just used brute force to shatter that dimension as well

now the real problem, is that there is a whis statement about hax being weakened by opponents' high level of power, but that is manga only, even in that case, it was sufficiently shown in the anime in terms of practice and performance

and how is beerus resisting time hax to an extent NLF? also, the hakai thing would work best if beerus's opponent is weaker than him, thats not NLF, however, people just stamping it as pure soul hax IS a fallacy

also, dante has shown resistance to soul hax, for the last time, hakai is NOT an exclusive soul hax

hax is generally greater than power, but in the case of gods, it seems a high power can out-gun the hax

its probably just the way godly power works, i mean we have had multiple hints of higher godly power negating hax being dropped here and there, but we dont have a confirmation statement in the anime yet 9we might soon tho)

all in all, beerus seems to be stronger than dante by quite a margin, hence his hakai hax would work, now if it was a pure soul thing, then yeah dante would resist it, but it a destruction/existential erasure hax, not just a soul hax

 

[Aparajita]

Snip

PIS.

Manga is first canon. Power is always superior to hax in DB. Always. It always has been and always will be.

Because Beerus has never shown to resist Time Hax. Dante survived the deletion of Mundus' pocket universe. I guess he's automatically immune to all "deletion"?

Hakai has deleted *souls*, there is no evidence that it does anything other than Whis' 1 statement, which we cannot automatically assume Whis is correct. He likely is, but we have no actual evidence of this. All we know is that it destroyed Zamasu's soul and destroyed a Ghost, which *was* a soul.

Hax is always less than power in DB.


If it's sheer power, Dante would enter Majin mode when struck, which would put him on the same level as Beerus, which would prevent Hakai from deleting him. If not, Dreadnaught Mode would resist it anyways.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Did you read my comment (forgive me if that sounded rude)? I said characters who arent named Goku and whatnot. And just because it is stated doesnt make it fact. Goku busting that dimension which has no defined size (tho shouldnt have anywhere near lets say HTC size) is also unquantifiable IIRC so idk why its being brought up.

Okay and again, it is absurd to think characters who have never shown to resist a specific hax can resist them for being more powerful. And it also wouldnt be fair to take that statement over the potential statements of other verses where their Hax could be better than their AP. And again, what about characters who would be weaker but are more profficient in hax and resisting it?

Your assuming im talking about Beerus when I never was. Im talking about the verse in general. Such as, im pretty sure saying characters like Yamcha or Krillin being able to resist Reality Warping or BFR from characters with lower AP just for being stronger doesnt sound accurate. Also, it would be an NLF if its being used against a weaker character who is either highly resistant or immune to that. And there's nothing wrong with only making it a soul hax atm as there's no evidence other than a NLF statement that it can destroy more than souls.

Again, the issues with that idea have been brought up and if an opponent is someone who's hax that out-guns power we cannot just ignore that and go with the "Power>>>Hax" thing for DB, which we are still strict with unless Cosmos from SS or Reitsu from Bleach being stronger is canceling out hax now.

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Anime is primary canon in Super though, also Zamasu's entire body was destroyed via Hakai, not just his soul @Aparajita

 

[Aldrecht]

Peter "Quicksilver" Maximoff
Would suggest adding a poll on future vs threads. Makes vote counting a little easier.

http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Helpoll

Anybody else have a count of the current votes? Im lazy.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

anime is the primary canon , thats why i said the manga statement is (unfortunately for beerus) not usable here as a certifiable character statement

also no in db there have been cases where hax is superior to power, back in the days of dbz, guldo affected everyone with his time stop, the thing is ever since characters entered the godly legues of power, they have shown the ability to resist time manipulation to an extent (this was never ever seen before godly power usage btw, before godly ki, they only had a resistance against mind attacks and as for the vegito thing- he was traansmuted, its just that buu's magic was not enough to reduce his stats, and that affect was localised to buu's magic only from what we have seen, in hit's case he literally takes the temporal dimension and messes with it, either stopping it entirely or literally taking bits of the temporal dimension to create his own parallel world for the duration of the tmporal period he stole), and you just cannot deny the fact that goku simply used his power to negate all those time techniques, its not character unique and beerus could do it too.

I just dont see how beerus wont resist dante's time effects also aparjita, hakai literally deleted zamasu entirely, including his physical body. Have you even seen that episode?

also how would dante be equal to beerus as majin? iirc in his base he is around casual universe level, which is pretty much around goku's level in U6 saga, and current goku is like 10 x that or more, and beerus is still considerably stronger than this 10 x casual universal goku, hence beerus's hakai would be in effect as well


@kukui:

>" it is absurd to think characters who have never shown to resist a specific hax can resist them for being more powerful"

only that goku has shown that, and it has never been hinted even once that his resistance has anything to do with an anti hax native to only his skill set even once

assuming about beerus? I made the obvious observation that db god ki users seem to be able to counter act time hax using only their ki, this has never been the case with any normal ki users. Heck there are even more cases of characters destroying realms of separate temporal pocket dimensions other than goku destroying hit's world of unknown size, like vegeta destroying a room which is practically its own mini-continuum, and has its own particular time (this is not an AP-only feat tho, since the world is only planet sized, and casual solar system busters have despaired about not being able to get out of it when locked in the past- hence meaning they just cannot break it and get out- yet another proof that pre god ki users had no way to deal with either time hax or pocket time world, but post god ki users can do that)


so conclusion, we have seen on multiple occasions that more than one dbs post god ki character has performed time resistance and time-breaking feats using their ki alone. Now i wont say that they can do this to any hax just yet, but we can clearly see that they can deal with time related abilitiees. And this should be no different for beerus. As a result, beerus should be able to deal with dante's time hax and either kill him with hakai or kill him with his suprior physical stats

Also, do factor in the fact that beerus has much much more experience than dante in fighting

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

to be quite frank, i dont see an end to this argument, at least with beerus' current stat and skills

(also i wont be able to respond for several hours until morning from now)

 

[Aceraspire]

to be quite frank, i dont see an end to this argument, at least with beerus' current stat and skills
(also i wont be able to respond for several hours until morning from now)

You are right with your arguments

And Beerus is not just 10x stronger than normal SSB,if current SSB Goku > SSB KKx10 and Beerus is still stronger than that

 

[Koopi]

Going with Beerus

If Beerus senses Dante as a threat he will just Hakai him from the start

I mean saying hakai won't work on Dante is just bruh. Whis stated it affects the soul and even the intangible.

 

[Iron_Kirby]

Dante has resistance to soul hax

 

[JustSomeWeirdo]

Hakai isn't soul hax though, it destroyed Zamasu's entire body

 

[Aceraspire]

Not just sould and intangible,but body aswell

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

how many times does it has to be stated that hakai destroys a target in its entirity

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Well regardless so we won't go back n forth, it doesn't matter as Beerus wouldn't use Hakai In character unless he was pissed off so it's very likely he wouldnt use it.

 

[Aceraspire]

Well regardless so we won't go back n forth, it doesn't matter as Beerus wouldn't use Hakai In character unless he was pissed off so it's very likely he wouldnt use it.

Did you even read comments?

It's in Beerus character to use Hakai if he SMELLS killing intent.Which he would sense & smell from Dante.So why he would play?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Proof?