(: Dante AP Upgrades :)

[Joshyyy_64]

Good evening.

I'm tryna see how early we can get a 5-B Black Clover and I came across @Epsilon_R 's Black hole calculation where he got Dante's creation feat to 281.2 zettatons of tnt.

Black Clover: Singularity

vsbattles.fandom.com

Me personally, I think it looks beautiful and to get straight to the point: I want it to be Dante's AP, rather than just Black Hole Creation.



Some will argue that it's digitally drawn, or that it's an outlier, that it's inconsistent, etc.
I want to focus on the AP aspect of it because I no longer need to justify the ability in the first place. Mr. Zogratis already has it in his page and I'm not the first CRT to talk about it being there in the first place. Thanks a bunch @KingArthur561

zogratis singularity gravity

Hi, this is my first cr. I wanna justify that Dante's singularity magic is a real black hole so that singularity can be applied as attack potency "A black hole is a region of space in which the gravitational field is so powerful. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Black_Holes In theory, any...

vsbattles.com

Refer to the image below folks, Asta's inner monologue where he realises Conrad's Doom's gate meteor would not only affect the 'destroy of the continent' as Mr. Leto states in the movie, but the entire world would essentially be cooked. Asta can't be the Wizard king where there's no globe to stand on obviously.



I choose to acknowledge this as a planetary statement, one that comes before Lucifero and his devils.

TLDR: I don't think planetary BC is so strange around the spade arc considering the fact that 3 months prior, Mr Leto was already a stupidly strong menace to begin with. 5-B Dante, all I'm asking for. Whoever scales to and up from this, let it be so.

Have a good rest of y'all day.

AGREE:

NEUTRAL:

DISAGREE:

 

[Infinitinet]

Agreed.

 

[CloverDragon03]

We only get a hint of world-destroying stuff with Lucifero, and even that is shaky. "Save the world" is in no way indicative of planetary levels of power on its own either, in regards to Conrad

This is simply an outlier

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

We only get a hint of world-destroying stuff with Lucifero, and even that is shaky. "Save the world" is in no way indicative of planetary levels of power on its own either, in regards to Conrad

This is simply an outlier

I know of like 7 world destroying statements overall. I been slacking

 

[KingArthur561]

agree

 

[KingArthur561]

I don't see this feat as an outlier, the jump between energy isn't big as long have a feat " If a character with several city destruction feats is shown to be able to destroy a mountain, we cannot necessarily consider it as an outlier, for the reason that the jump between tiers is not extreme enough to be so, despite the jump between energy values we attribute to them. If the character has very few feats, we can likely ignore this point." just like Yuki and Yozuru from JJK, their feat is a big jump. event this feat rejected,at least give dante possibly or likely

 

[Epsilon_R]

Sigh...

Before everything, please don't use my calcs without warning next time.

Now, Even in the likelihood that Dante scales to that, he would not scale physically to it, as his Gravity only reaches these insane amounts when he uses that spell in particular.

This can be used as evidence for Lucifero though, since it's his spell yk.

 

[Digital_Franz]

We only get a hint of world-destroying stuff with Lucifero, and even that is shaky. "Save the world" is in no way indicative of planetary levels of power on its own either, in regards to Conrad

This is simply an outlier

And looking at the size of the black hole shouldn't it be 5-A at least?

 

[Sdjlakjh]

Agree

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

And looking at the size of the black hole shouldn't it be 5-A

Yami prob has better evidence on being a real black hole.

Good evening.

I'm tryna see how early we can get a 5-B Black Clover and I came across @Epsilon_R 's Black hole calculation where he got Dante's creation feat to 281.2 zettatons of tnt.

Black Clover: Singularity

vsbattles.fandom.com

Me personally, I think it looks beautiful and to get straight to the point: I want it to be Dante's AP, rather than just Black Hole Creation.

Some will argue that it's digitally drawn, or that it's an outlier, that it's inconsistent, etc.
I want to focus on the AP aspect of it because I no longer need to justify the ability in the first place. Mr. Zogratis already has it in his page and I'm not the first CRT to talk about it being there in the first place. Thanks a bunch @KingArthur561 https://vsbattles.com/threads/zogratis-singularity-gravity.155691/

Refer to the image below folks, Asta's inner monologue where he realises Conrad's Doom's gate meteor would not only affect the 'destroy of the continent' as Mr. Leto states in the movie, but the entire world would essentially be cooked. Asta can't be the Wizard king where there's no globe to stand on obviously.

I choose to acknowledge this as a planetary statement, one that comes before Lucifero and his devils.

TLDR: I don't think planetary BC is so strange around the spade arc considering the fact that 3 months prior, Mr Leto was already a stupidly strong menace to begin with. 5-B Dante, all I'm asking for. Whoever scales to and up from this, let it be so.

Have a good rest of y'all day.

AGREE:

NEUTRAL:

DISAGREE:

I know of many other planetary statements. Could probably use Dante statement from the anime that they would destroy the whole world (and what do you know Lucifero has the same statement)

 

[Epsilon_R]

And looking at the size of the black hole shouldn't it be 5-A at least?

No, a palm sized Black Hole is 5-B. It would need to be much bigger than a Basketball to reach 5-A

 

[Digital_Franz]

No, a palm sized Black Hole is 5-B. It would need to be much bigger than a Basketball to reach 5-A

Well, yeah.

 

[King_Gorilla4002-8922]

Refer to the image below folks, Asta's inner monologue where he realises Conrad's Doom's gate meteor would not only affect the 'destroy of the continent' as Mr. Leto states in the movie, but the entire world would essentially be cooked. Asta can't be the Wizard king where there's no globe to stand on obviously.

I choose to acknowledge this as a planetary statement, one that comes before Lucifero and his devils

We only get a hint of world-destroying stuff with Lucifero, and even that is shaky. "Save the world" is in no way indicative of planetary levels of power on its own either, in regards to Conrad

This is simply an outlier

"world" in BC was never used in the context of being planetary, whenever it is used it refers to magical society or the universe, in the case of Conrrad he makes it very clear that his goal was to reform magical society by killing everyone on the continent and reviving those he thinks deserve it, now the whole plot behind Lucifer's "world destruction" statements are in the context of the universe, gravity magic being able to crush everything in the world including time and space makes this very clear, apart from that Lucifer also crushed the world of Glamour/dreams which has explicit statements and already accepted on the Wiki of being a parallel dimension of infinite size

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

"world" in BC was never used in the context of being planetary, whenever it is used it refers to magical society or the universe, in the case of Conrrad he makes it very clear that his goal was to reform magical society by killing everyone on the continent and reviving those he thinks deserve it, now the whole plot behind Lucifer's "world destruction" statements are in the context of the universe, gravity magic being able to crush everything in the world including time and space makes this very clear, apart from that Lucifer also crushed the world of Glamour/dreams which has explicit statements and already accepted on the Wiki of being a parallel dimension of infinite size

You know damn well universal isn’t getting accepted. (Maybe argue large size for free of qliphoth) which is the size of the underworld. And scale them to the creation,destruction of that. Also there are a few panels where world refers to planet

 

[Joshyyy_64]

What have I done

 

[Joshyyy_64]

sound then, imma be back with answers starting from sunday, just wanted to get this started. nice one for the replies lads

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

We only get a hint of world-destroying stuff with Lucifero, and even that is shaky. "Save the world" is in no way indicative of planetary levels of power on its own either, in regards to Conrad

This is simply an outlier

There are blatant planetary statements all throughout the manga,anime,and novels

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

sound then, imma be back with answers starting from sunday, just wanted to get this started. nice one for the replies lads

Imma reread black clover for the 5th-6th time and see if I can find anything else.

 

[King_Gorilla4002-8922]

You know damn well universal isn’t getting accepted. (Maybe argue large size for free of qliphoth) which is the size of the underworld. And scale them to the creation,destruction of that. Also there are a few panels where world refers to planet

The only panel that puts "world" as "planet" is the one with Lucius holding the globe in his hands, but it goes against all the other world quotes in the arc where Lucius calls other timelines worlds.

and the high 3-A BC was not accepted due to a reasoning error where they tried to attribute the creation of the world of Glamour to Dorothy's magical power even though there is not even a statement that she is creating that dimension in addition to several anti-facts that prove that she is not really creating the dream world.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

The only panel that puts "world" as "planet" is the one with Lucius holding the globe in his hands, but it goes against all the other world quotes in the arc where Lucius calls other timelines worlds.

and the high 3-A BC was not accepted due to a reasoning error where they tried to attribute the creation of the world of Glamour to Dorothy's magical power even though there is not even a statement that she is creating that dimension in addition to several anti-facts that prove that she is not really creating the dream world.

There are others. Like leviathan and another statement of the world collapsing. And no. Dorothy was accepted as having created it,no anti feats, just that it was an outlier so they just ignored it and gave her range

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

The only panel that puts "world" as "planet" is the one with Lucius holding the globe in his hands, but it goes against all the other world quotes in the arc where Lucius calls other timelines worlds.

and the high 3-A BC was not accepted due to a reasoning error where they tried to attribute the creation of the world of Glamour to Dorothy's magical power even though there is not even a statement that she is creating that dimension in addition to several anti-facts that prove that she is not really creating the dream world.

We should probably bring this somewhere else so as to not clog the thread

 

[CloverDragon03]

"world" in BC was never used in the context of being planetary, whenever it is used it refers to magical society or the universe, in the case of Conrrad he makes it very clear that his goal was to reform magical society by killing everyone on the continent and reviving those he thinks deserve it, now the whole plot behind Lucifer's "world destruction" statements are in the context of the universe, gravity magic being able to crush everything in the world including time and space makes this very clear, apart from that Lucifer also crushed the world of Glamour/dreams which has explicit statements and already accepted on the Wiki of being a parallel dimension of infinite size

Lucifero being Universal

I done seen it all... Lucifero's world destruction is absolutely not referring to a universe here

I know of like 7 world destroying statements overall. I been slacking

...Where???

 

[King_Gorilla4002-8922]

There are others. Like leviathan and another statement of the world collapsing. And no. Dorothy was accepted as having created it,no anti feats, just that it was an outlier so they just ignored it and gave her range

what is extremely wrong is that there is no statement that she is creating that and yes there are anti-effects, Dorothy sent things to the world of glamour without even activating that magic, in addition to that two users of dream magic are using the same world of Glamour, besides the narrative of a reincarnated elf being stronger than his host does not exist in the fight between Reeve and Dorothy, they are extremely comparable in power within the world of Glamour

 

[King_Gorilla4002-8922]

We should probably bring this somewhere else so as to not clog the thread

Ok

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

I done seen it all... Lucifero's world destruction is absolutely not referring to a universe here

...Where???

You have somewhere I can send? I am missing a few tho

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

what is extremely wrong is that there is no statement that she is creating that and yes there are anti-effects, Dorothy sent things to the world of glamour without even activating that magic, in addition to that two users of dream magic are using the same world of Glamour, besides the narrative of a reincarnated elf being stronger than his host does not exist in the fight between Reeve and Dorothy, they are extremely comparable in power within the world of Glamour

Yap. This was already went over in the thread where it got accepted.

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

I done seen it all... Lucifero's world destruction is absolutely not referring to a universe here

...Where???

Would destroying/creating something with large size type 5 scale anywhere?

 

[AstaDragon123]

Look fine I agree. Great job bro

 

[Joshyyy_64]

Now, Even in the likelihood that Dante scales to that, he would not scale physically to it, as his Gravity only reaches these insane amounts when he uses that spell in particular.

This can be used as evidence for Lucifero though, since it's his spell yk.

Depending on your answer to my question, I'll switch this thread to focus this feat on Lucifero.

1. Why is it that in the next panel, Asta literally deletes Dante's black hole? yk the bit after Asta gets his right arm?
As we know, Asta's AM must be equivalent to his opponent's magic and his own strength to the force his opponent has produced. Asta didn't necessarily become stronger than Dante, he just became closer in power. Right before that, they were capable of injuring each other and after the arm, he became relative yet still fell behind. I'm confused.


2. Isn't he expending magic to create those crazy amounts of gravity? Would it still account for his AP because it's coming out of his own energy?

 

[Joshyyy_64]

why tf do my images keep disappearing

 

[Joshyyy_64]

We only get a hint of world-destroying stuff with Lucifero, and even that is shaky. "Save the world" is in no way indicative of planetary levels of power on its own either, in regards to Conrad

This is simply an outlier

I disagree with the outlier "shaky" planetary statements. Especially the latter, for reasons I can talk about after epsilon has answered my question.

1. The main cast and everyone else who had to or was determined to become stronger became stronger over the 6 month time skip in their own individual way, so I'm not convinced that it breaks narrative.

2. Dante has no feats, we're scaling based on relativity. His 1st base 6-B scaling for example; fair enough to the brains behind his scaling page, but more often than not, you have to have a massively higher AP than the victim to have to kill them (I'm talking about Vanica's page which is grounds to scale base triad to 6-B). So I don't think we're destroying pre-established scaling here because the triad can be massively higher in AP and still make sense with the scaling and narrative.

"1) Is it a big jump or drop in power? If a character with several city destruction feats is shown to be able to destroy a mountain, we cannot necessarily consider it as an outlier, for the reason that the jump between tiers is not extreme enough to be so, despite the jump between energy values we attribute to them. If the character has very few feats, we can likely ignore this point."

3. We allowed Heidi from Hungry Joker to go from Tier 8 to tier 5 with his enhanced form. I don't see it as a problem to do the same for Dante and Lucifero considering the fact that during their fights, they too CONSISTENTLY increased their power, having more tricks up their sleeve than we could perceive.

 

[Deceived3596]

why tf do my images keep disappearing

Are you using images uploaded on Discord, or are you taking the image links directly from the site you're using and uploading them as images? If it's the former, Discord links gradually get deleted by VSBW. If it's the latter, I believe VSBW also gradually deactivates them as well because of security reasons (or maybe they naturally shut down after a certain period of time, I have no idea). If you're inserting the image link as an image only and not linking the image link to a link holder, like a word, upload it first to an image sharing site like Imgur, then link that image exactly how you did in your OP.

By doing this, that should stop the images from being shut down.

 

[Joshyyy_64]

Are you using images uploaded on Discord, or are you taking the image links directly from the site you're using and uploading them as images? If it's the former, Discord links gradually get deleted by VSBW. If it's the latter, I believe VSBW also gradually deactivates them as well because of security reasons (or maybe they naturally shut down after a certain period of time, I have no idea). If you're inserting the image link as an image only and not linking the image link to a link holder, like a word, upload it first to an image sharing site like Imgur, then link that image exactly how you did in your OP.

By doing this, that should stop the images from being shut down.

Are you able to hyperlink text to discord link address images?

 

[Deceived3596]

Are you able to hyperlink text to discord link address images?

You can, but I'm not entirely sure if those images, even when linked to a holder, will stay there since at the end of the day the image link is still from Discord and VSBW has a system that automatically deactivates Discord links after a certain period of time.

 

[Joshyyy_64]

You can, but I'm not entirely sure if those images, even when linked to a holder, will stay there since at the end of the day the image link is still from Discord and VSBW has a system that automatically deactivates Discord links after a certain period of time.

How does it look now?

 

[Deceived3596]

How does it look now?

Looks fine, all the images are popping up and they shouldn't go away since the links are from Imgur.

 

[Joshyyy_64]

nice

 

[Livinmeme]

People don't understand what an outlier is. An outlier is a feat which is contradicted by other feats (I.E. The guy who tanked a supernova getting washed by a 20 kiloton nuclear bomb).

 

[CloverDragon03]

People don't understand what an outlier is. An outlier is a feat which is contradicted by other feats (I.E. The guy who tanked a supernova getting washed by a 20 kiloton nuclear bomb).

Not always, but even then the inconsistency of Lucifero being hyped up to destroy the world when apparently Dante can casually do that with Gravity Singularity already is damning

I disagree with the outlier "shaky" planetary statements. Especially the latter, for reasons I can talk about after epsilon has answered my question.

1. The main cast and everyone else who had to or was determined to become stronger became stronger over the 6 month time skip in their own individual way, so I'm not convinced that it breaks narrative.

2. Dante has no feats, we're scaling based on relativity. His 1st base 6-B scaling for example; fair enough to the brains behind his scaling page, but more often than not, you have to have a massively higher AP than the victim to have to kill them (I'm talking about Vanica's page which is grounds to scale base triad to 6-B). So I don't think we're destroying pre-established scaling here because the triad can be massively higher in AP and still make sense with the scaling and narrative.

3. We allowed Heidi from Hungry Joker to go from Tier 8 to tier 5 with his enhanced form. I don't see it as a problem to do the same for Dante and Lucifero considering the fact that during their fights, they too CONSISTENTLY increased their power, having more tricks up their sleeve than we could perceive.

1. "They're stronger" is different from "they scale to planetary levels of threats"
2. A character stronger than the Dark Triad had people ******** bricks over destroying the world, so no, it makes no sense that Dante can actually just output power on that level (greater than that, actually)
3. I don't care about whataboutisms

This is objectively an outlier

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

Not always, but even then the inconsistency of Lucifero being hyped up to destroy the world when apparently Dante can casually do that with Gravity Singularity already is damning

1 was an attack, and the other was literal presence that has 2-3 statements while Lucius also has a planetary statement (the world will collapse if he isn’t stopped) which is then farther backed up by the fact that leviathan only wakes up if the world is in danger of being destroyed and the statement even comes from the witch queen which can look into the future.

1. "They're stronger" is different from "they scale to planetary levels of threats"
2. A character stronger than the Dark Triad had people ******** bricks over destroying the world, so no, it makes no sense that Dante can actually just output power on that level (greater than that, actually)
3. I don't care about whataboutisms

This is objectively an outlier

The way they would destroy the world is vastly different. Dante kinda has a planetary statement .as well. There isn’t really anything you could claim to be an outlier.