Danny Phantom - The Reality Gauntlet 2-C (Low Multiverse level) Upgrade Discussion

[LordGriffin1000]

I'm just going to get right to it. I believe the Reality Gauntlet should have a Universe level+/Low 2-C (Edit: Seems to be 2-C) rating. I decided to do this now because the gauntlet itself and it's feats come from the original series and wouldn't be connected to any future content as it was introduced and destroyed in the same episode so it's not making another appearance. However, I want to make this clear. Regardless of if this is accepted or not, none of the profiles will be touched until the Graphic Novel comes out because while it has no barring on the Reality Gauntlet, it might have an effect on how we scale the characters to it be whatever happens in the story. So this should simply be looked at as getting this discussion out of the way now and then apply it later on next month.

Currently, the Reality Gauntlet is rated at 4-A for this casual feat which was accepted here, and the scaling was revised here that puts Danny above the gauntlet. Please take a look at those threads as they quickly explain the rating/scaling and will catch anyone up to speed. Below in the SPOILER tag contains the evidence for my suggestion on why the guantlet is low 2-C and here is a link to our tiering system page, please check out the description and requirements for Tier 2 before agreeing or disagreeing.

Spoiler

Universal Reality Warping

In season 2, episode 19 - 20 "Reality Trip" we are introduced to The Reality Gauntlet.

When explaining the powers of the gauntlet, Freakshow states that the gauntlet at it's full power can "control all reality". Now before the "all reality" is vague argument gets dropped in the comments, it's already shown that all reality means space and time as when Freakshow became the "ringmaster of all reality", he warps space itself with a casual hand wave.

Later in the episode, Danny use the guantlet to alter reality back to the day before the events of the episode took place. So Danny literally brought reality (including time) back which would obviously be on a universal scale especially going off our Time Manipulation page which states...

* By default, the range of time manipulation is considered universal unless explicitly demonstrated or specified otherwise. In the case of time manipulation through gravity manipulation, it will be presumed to have a localized range instead of a universal one unless explicitly stated or demonstrated. Similarly, when utilizing pocket dimensions for time manipulation, it will not be presumed to possess a universal range unless explicitly indicated or shown.

Eradicating the Ghost Zone

The Guys in White state that they believe the guantlet possesses enough spectral power to eradicate ghosts forever. It's important to note that they say eradicate ghosts forever, not just eradicate all ghosts. This would require the complete destruction of the Ghost Zone for several reasons I'll explain below...

1. The Ghost Zone is already accepted as an infinite 4-D structure via statements and showings. It is directly stated by the creator that ghosts are spread out far and wide across the Ghost Zone and that Danny hasn't even scratched it's surface and this sandbox shows the Ghost Zone is spatially separate from the normal universe.

Now yes, you can make the argument that unless their are infinite ghosts they could be spread out and not reach infinitely out but it's stated (45:45 to 45:57) by Skulker in season 1, episode 18 "Life Lessons" that there are infinite realms in the Ghost Zone which is in line with it being an endless void of ectoplasm and other statements, means ghosts do get around and know they are spread out.

Edit: This would also include Clockwork, who has multiple versions of him throughout the timeline that can act and several showed up from different eras of time.

2. It's shown that several of the structures in the Ghost Zone are sentient ghosts as well. In season 1, episode 2 "Infinite Realms", Danny and crew use the Infi-map and visit various places in the Ghost Zone which included Carnivorous Canyon which was one giant mouth, and the River of Revulsion which is a river that is revealed to be sentient. So the guantlet would also need to destroy the structures inside the Ghost Zone to eradicate all ghosts forever which takes me to my final point.

3. Ectoplasm itself can create ghosts and the GIW want to destroy the Ghost Zone. Throughout the series we have seen ectoplasm/ectoplasmic energy turn objects into ghosts. Danny and Vlad got their powers when their DNA was overtaken by ectoplasm and it was shown to be another entity as I explained in this thread. The ectoplasmic lighting from the ecto storm turned in animate objects into ghosts. The Guys in White have studied ectoplasm and have made weapons with it so they know what it can do.

And yes, the Guys in White knew of the Ghost Zone as in season 3, episode 7; "Livin' Large", they where going to use the fenton ghost portal to send and anti-ghost missile into the Ghost Zone and release a substance that would reduce it to nothing.

The agent even states this to Sam and Tucker...

Agent: We just need you out of the way until we finish our mission.

Sam: You mean destroying the world?

Agent: Part of it, yes. The nasty ghost infested part.

Sam: But your wrong. If you destroy the Ghost Zone, you also destroy [gets interrupted]

So the ultimate goal for the Guys in White is to destroy the entire Ghost Zone and all ghosts inside. This is why in the previous season they asked Freakshow what he knew about the Reality Gauntlet because from the information they gathered they believed it to be powerful enough to eradicate ghosts forever which means the total destruction of the Ghost Zone otherwise the statement makes no sense since destroying just the ghosts in the Ghost Zone doesn't eradicate them forever because their is more to it and the Guys in White know this and want to get rid of them all including the Ghost Zone.

Conclusion

Here is what the rating/description would look like.

Low Multiverse level (The guantlet at it's full power can control all reality which included space and time, as it allowed Freakshow to warp space with a simple wave of his hand and allowed Danny to change reality back to before the events of the episode. The Guys in White also believed it to possess enough spectral power to "eradicate ghosts forever" which would require the destruction of the entire Ghost Zone due to it being an endless void of ectoplsm filled with infinite realms and ghosts being stated to be spread far and wide throughout it, which includes the likes of Clockwork, who has multiple versions of him throughout the timeline that can act and several showed up from different eras of time. Along the existence of structures in the Ghost Zone like the River of Revulsion having sentience along with ectoplasm itself being capable of creating ghosts which the Guys in White have knowledge on and who's ultimate goal is the destruction of the Ghost Zone)

All input is appreciated, be it questions, additions, or concerns. No derailing obviously though given Danny Phantom is obscure I doubt that will be an issue.

Agree: DarkDragonMedeus, Thelastmlg, Eseseso, ShakeResounding, Dragonite007, Starsprite53, StrymULTRA, Apex_Predator_GX, LuffyRuffy46307, Stryker861, Jamesthetaker, Planck69, PrinceofPein, Mephistus, ShakeResounding, Reiner, Greatsage13th, One-Mastor, The_2nd_Existential_Seed,

Disagree:

Neutral

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks good to me.

 

[Thelastmlg]

This looks very clear cut to me

 

[PrinceofPein]

This will be 3-A to high 3-A depending on the size of the universe
As there is no indication of the entire timeline being affected and I do not think this scales to AP at least all the feats mentioned are more or less hax

 

[Eseseso]

When Danny reversed time, did it affect the Ghost Zone as well?

Because that would make this 2-C.

If not, I agree with the OP.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Question - Obviously the elephant in the room, but Danny would upscale from this correct?

Concern - If yes, is there any other feat that nets Tier 2 for Danny? Iirc he was Tier 2 at one point, wasn't he? I doubt it was from a single feat.

That aside, I'm agreeing with this so far. Let the chef cook.

 

[BlastX]

Question - Obviously the elephant in the room, but Danny would upscale from this correct?

Concern - If yes, is there any other feat that nets Tier 2 for Danny? Iirc he was Tier 2 at one point, wasn't he? I doubt it was from a single feat.

That aside, I'm agreeing with this so far. Let the chef cook.

Yes,same reason he upscales from 4-A, it's the same feat for him, only the gauntlet scales to higher stuff in this instance.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

This will be 3-A to high 3-A depending on the size of the universe
As there is no indication of the entire timeline being affected and I do not think this scales to AP at least all the feats mentioned are more or less hax

It wouldn't cap at just 3-A, the Danny Phantom universe/Ghost Zone is infinite in size, this is already explained in the OP and blog. And it is Low 2-C because it's destroying the Ghost Zone (a structure made ofbectoplasm) which is infinite in size and is 4-D as it shifts in time and naturally tears holes in the space-time continuum leading to the past, present, and future. Also the hax argument doesn't work because it literally performs it's feats through raw ectoplasmic energy and they said it's spectral power (ectoplasmic energy) would do it. Meaning it would scale to the guantlet in terms of power as it can us this power offensively.

When Danny reversed time, did it affect the Ghost Zone as well?

Because that would make this 2-C.

If not, I agree with the OP.

Sadly our standards state that you need more than a different time flow to be a different space-time continuum entirely. The Ghost Zone is the flipside of the normal universe and while it had a different space and shifts in time differently, that isn't enough to assume it's an entirely different space-time continuum. Also, when the timeline is changed the Ghost Zone is effected in some way so as of now the Ghost Zone is apart of the overall timeline but exists in a different space and has it's own unique time flow.

Question - Obviously the elephant in the room, but Danny would upscale from this correct?

Concern - If yes, is there any other feat that nets Tier 2 for Danny? Iirc he was Tier 2 at one point, wasn't he? I doubt it was from a single feat.

That aside, I'm agreeing with this so far. Let the chef cook.

As BlastX stated, yes, Danny would upscale but as I mentioned in the OP, changes won't happen until after the graphic novel comes out and is evaluated.

Yes, Danny was Low 2-C before but the other feat that was used was the Ecto-Skeleton being superior to the Anti-ghost missile which was going to destroy the Ghost Zone (as the Ecto-Skeleton is considered the Fentons best weapon and the Guys in White don't have tech on their level. However this scaling was obviously faulty since the missile was going to release a substance that would have destroyed the Ghost Zone, not through sheer destruction.

This is why the characters are only possibly scaling to the Reality Gauntlet because they themselves haven't desplayed 4-A feats (with the exception of creating realms with stars but that was done over an unknown amount time) and obviously they themselves haven't desplayed Low 2-C feats either. This again is why the scaling will not be changed until the graphic novel comes out next month on the 18th as it's stated to be focused on Danny and crew dealing with temporal paradoxes (glitches in time) and traveling through time and space to discover the secrets of the Ghost Zone amd stop Dan (who has escaped the Fenton Thermos) from destroying the world which most likely lead to more lore and potential feats.

 

[Dragonite007]

Seens fine

 

[PrinceofPein]

It wouldn't cap at just 3-A, the Danny Phantom universe/Ghost Zone is infinite in size, this is already explained in the OP and blog. And it is Low 2-C because it's destroying the Ghost Zone (a structure made ofbectoplasm) which is infinite in size and is 4-D as it shifts in time and naturally tears holes in the space-time continuum leading to the past, present, and future. Also the hax argument doesn't work because it literally performs it's feats through raw ectoplasmic energy and they said it's spectral power (ectoplasmic energy) would do it. Meaning it would scale to the guantlet in terms of power as it can us this power offensively..

An infinite space or any universe that changes(time) occur is 4D by default. That said, it having hole in ST that can lead to the past or future does not mean much here if there is no prove that to destroy the ghost zone you need to destroy it across time, simply erasing the entire universe and present would destroy everything also.

for the hax argument I do not know much about the verse but is spectral power a universal energy

 

[Starsprite53]

I agree

 

[LordGriffin1000]

An infinite space or any universe that changes(time) occur is 4D by default. That said, it having hole in ST that can lead to the past or future does not mean much here if there is no prove that to destroy the ghost zone you need to destroy it across time, simply erasing the entire universe and present would destroy everything also.

That's not my point. My point is that the ectoplasm (the substance of what the Ghost Zone is made of) is naturally able to effect space and time (past, present, and future) and the gauntlet is destroying this substance on a universal scale. It's the equivalent of a character destroying another character that has Low 2-C durability which would require Low 2-C attack power.

for the hax argument I do not know much about the verse but is spectral power a universal energy

Spectral power (another name for ectoplasmic energy) is accepted as a universal energy system. Ghosts are made up of ectoplasm/ectoplasmic energy as explained on the Ghost Physiology (Danny Phantom) page and this sandbox shows ectoplasmic energy effects the characters statistics. There are also multiple instances in the series that show that the more powerful a ghost gets, their overall statistics increase. Futher evidence shows that when you nullify a ghosts ebergy, it nullifies their hax abilities which was shown on other threads. The Guys in White even class ghosts like Danny as a level 7 on the energy scale of power.

But in general yes, ectoplasm/ectoplasmic energy is currently accepted as a universal energy system.

 

[PrinceofPein]

That's not my point. My point is that the ectoplasm (the substance of what the Ghost Zone is made of) is naturally able to effect space and time (past, present, and future) and the gauntlet is destroying this substance on a universal scale. It's the equivalent of a character destroying another character that has Low 2-C durability which would require Low 2-C attack power.

This does not really make much sense, a universe does not have low 2-C durability even if there are things in it that can affect past, present and future (gravity-black holes)
being able to affect past, present and future through gaps or tears in space does not mean much to the statement you wish to use to for the upgrade.
Destroying something that can affect time and space does not equal low 2-C, I mean I really do not understand the claim.

Spectral power (another name for ectoplasmic energy) is accepted as a universal energy system. Ghosts are made up of ectoplasm/ectoplasmic energy as explained on the Ghost Physiology (Danny Phantom) page and this sandbox shows ectoplasmic energy effects the characters statistics. There are also multiple instances in the series that show that the more powerful a ghost gets, their overall statistics increase. Futher evidence shows that when you nullify a ghosts ebergy, it nullifies their hax abilities which was shown on other threads. The Guys in White even class ghosts like Danny as a level 7 on the energy scale of power.

But in general yes, ectoplasm/ectoplasmic energy is currently accepted as a universal energy system.

I agree on that front in this case of it scaling

 

[LordGriffin1000]

This does not really make much sense, a universe does not have low 2-C durability even if there are things in it that can affect past, present and future (gravity-black holes)
being able to affect past, present and future through gaps or tears in space does not mean much to the statement you wish to use to for the upgrade.
Destroying something that can affect time and space does not equal low 2-C, I mean I really do not understand the claim.

The Ghost Zone is 4-D because it's universal in size and it's ectoplasm/ectoplasmic energy effects the past, present, and future, naturally shifting. The Gauntlet uses the same power and can eradicate the Ghost Zone which substance is 4-D so why wouldn't the guantlet be Low 2-C if it's energy is the same as that which is 4-D.

 

[PrinceofPein]

The Ghost Zone is 4-D because it's universal in size and it's ectoplasm/ectoplasmic energy effects the past, present, and future, naturally shifting. The Gauntlet uses the same power and can eradicate the Ghost Zone which substance is 4-D so why wouldn't the guantlet be Low 2-C if it's energy is the same as that which is 4-D.

Is what you are claiming that every instance of the ectoplasmic energy and all substance in the ghost zone is 4D?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Disagree with Tier 3 and agree with Tier 2

 

[BlastX]

I just realized that if this goes through Dan would be 10000x Low 2-C, right?

 

[StrymULTRA]

I just realized that if this goes through Dan would be 10000x Low 2-C, right?

That's kinda of based? Danny vs Archie Low 2-Cs when

 

[BlastX]

I forgot that would only be with the Ghostly Wail, normally he would be 100x Low 2-C

 

[BlastX]

That's kinda of based? Danny vs Archie Low 2-Cs when

AFAIK as I know Archie Low 2-C only have a normal scaling chain, unless there's a 1000x statement in there somewhere.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Sadly our standards state that you need more than a different time flow to be a different space-time continuum entirely. The Ghost Zone is the flipside of the normal universe and while it had a different space and shifts in time differently, that isn't enough to assume it's an entirely different space-time continuum. Also, when the timeline is changed the Ghost Zone is effected in some way so as of now the Ghost Zone is apart of the overall timeline but exists in a different space and has it's own unique time flow.

Actually this is 2-C according to other pages.

Having a different flow of time means that it's a whole different space-time.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Actually this is 2-C according to other pages.

Having a different flow of time means that it's a whole different space-time.

• It should be noted that variations in the flow of time, such as faster or slower rates, do not necessarily indicate the existence of separate universes or space-time continuums. This phenomenon can occur within a single universe or pocket dimension, and therefore does not serve as sufficient evidence for the existence of multiple universes or space-time continuums.

From the Universe standard page

 

[StrymULTRA]

From the Universe standard page

Good, downgrade them then!

(It would include also Dragon Ball, funnily enough)

 

[PrinceofPein]

Good, downgrade them then!

(It would include also Dragon Ball, funnily enough)

Why would I be the one to? If someone made a CRT and tagged me then I would have helped since I made the tier 2 standard but headbutting and creating CRT for verses I know nothing about is bound to end badly.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Why would I be the one to? If someone made a CRT and tagged me then I would have helped since I made the tier 2 standard but headbutting and creating CRT for verses I know nothing about is bound to end badly.

Nice indirect concession.

So it'll be 2-C.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Nice indirect concession.

So it'll be 2-C.

Huh??
Sigh

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Is what you are claiming that every instance of the ectoplasmic energy and all substance in the ghost zone is 4D?

Well there isn't a major difference compared to the ectoplasm/ectoplasmic energy of the Ghost Zone, ghosts or ghost objects (like the Reality Gauntlet) other than size. The knowledgeable characters in the series generalize all of the as ectoplasm and the anti-ghost weapons work on all ghosts with the only difference being is the signature a ghosts gives off like how in Dragon Ball or Bleach, they can sense who the character is by their energy but it's still all the same. In this case, the Reality Gauntlet and it's gems are made entirely of ectoplasm/ectoplasmic emergy and have control over reality (time and space) on a universal scale. The Ghost Zone is a universal structure that is also made entirely of ectoplasm/ectoplasmic energy and it constantly shifting and opening holes throughout space and time to different time periods. They both use and are made of the same energy so the guantlet would be comparable in potency as it can even destroy it. And while it's not on their scale, we already accept ghosts creating their own realms within the Ghost Zone and they are shown to have their own space and time flow, though that isn't low 2-C it still shows ectoplasmic energy in itself has those effects and shouldn't be treated differently when in verse, the only difference is size.

However, if you still disagree, does that mean you would prefer High 3-A as a more valid option?

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I just realized that if this goes through Dan would be 10000x Low 2-C, right?

Yes. For his Ghostly Wail

 

[PrinceofPein]

Well there isn't a major difference compared to the ectoplasm/ectoplasmic energy of the Ghost Zone, ghosts or ghost objects (like the Reality Gauntlet) other than size. The knowledgeable characters in the series generalize all of the as ectoplasm and the anti-ghost weapons work on all ghosts with the only difference being is the signature a ghosts gives off like how in Dragon Ball or Bleach, they can sense who the character is by their energy but it's still all the same. In this case, the Reality Gauntlet and it's gems are made entirely of ectoplasm/ectoplasmic emergy and have control over reality (time and space) on a universal scale. The Ghost Zone is a universal structure that is also made entirely of ectoplasm/ectoplasmic energy and it constantly shifting and opening holes throughout space and time to different time periods. They both use and are made of the same energy so the guantlet would be comparable in potency as it can even destroy it. And while it's not on their scale, we already accept ghosts creating their own realms within the Ghost Zone and they are shown to have their own space and time flow, though that isn't low 2-C it still shows ectoplasmic energy in itself has those effects and shouldn't be treated differently when in verse, the only difference is size.

The problem is that having control over space and time in some sense of reality warping and time travel is not always the same as total destruction of entire space-time continuums, they are not the same and mutually exclusive.

However, if you still disagree, does that mean you would prefer High 3-A as a more valid option?

Yes, you have two statements
1. Control all of reality (without more context)
2. Eradicate ghosts forever

If there are more let me know, but all of these are high 3A by default, the reason why I do not consider the ghost zone 4D stuffs to be relevant here is that all universes are 4D by default so it does not really matter

 

[LordGriffin1000]

The problem is that having control over space and time in some sense of reality warping and time travel is not always the same as total destruction of entire space-time continuums, they are not the same and mutually exclusive.

Yes, you have two statements
1. Control all of reality (without more context)
2. Eradicate ghosts forever

If there are more let me know, but all of these are high 3A by default, the reason why I do not consider the ghost zone 4D stuffs to be relevant here is that all universes are 4D by default so it does not really matter

Fair enough.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

I agree with the OP

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I agree with Op, why did DB related issues arise? For me this is definitely proof for Tier 2

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I've updated the OP with everyones stance but given PrinceofPein was arguing throughout I would appreciate it if anyone who sees the argument and changes their mind on their stance (be it Hugh 3-A or Low 2-C) specifically state which you agree on or if you completely disagree or are neutral so I can add it or change it.

I agree with Op, why did DB related issues arise? For me this is definitely proof for Tier 2

Just a minor response in regards to 2-C standards. But I prefer we keep things strictly about Danny Phantom.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I've updated the OP with everyones stance but given PrinceofPein was arguing throughout I would appreciate it if anyone who sees the argument and changes their mind on their stance (be it Hugh 3-A or Low 2-C) specifically state which you agree on or if you completely disagree or are neutral so I can add it or change it.


Just a minor response in regards to 2-C standards. But I prefer we keep things strictly about Danny Phantom.

I see, it looks good.

 

[Greenshifter]

Disagree… should be 2-C

 

[Stryker861]

i agree with low 2c

 

[Ped2018]

I've updated the OP with everyones stance but given PrinceofPein was arguing throughout I would appreciate it if anyone who sees the argument and changes their mind on their stance (be it Hugh 3-A or Low 2-C) specifically state which you agree on or if you completely disagree or are neutral so I can add it or change it.


Just a minor response in regards to 2-C standards. But I prefer we keep things strictly about Danny Phantom.

You better tag people with experience with tier 2, like @Planck69 for example.

 

[Jamesthetaker]

Low 2-C makes sense to me, so add me to the line.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Disagree… should be 2-C

Well it's a fact that the Ghost Zone and the human world are the flipside of each other (described as two sides of a coin) and are shown to be in two separate space and have different time flows with the Ghost Zone constantly shifting and opening holes throughout space-time continuum to the normal universe. However, having a different time flow isn't enough evidence for them to be two separate space-time continuum as a whole going by our standards.

* [/I]It should be noted that variations in the flow of time, such as faster or slower rates, do not necessarily indicate the existence of separate universes or space-time continuums. This phenomenon can occur within a single universe or pocket dimension, and therefore does not serve as sufficient evidence for the existence of multiple universes or space-time continuums.[/I]

And in Danny Phantom the Ghost Zone and normal universe are linked to a degree. If you nuke one the entire dimensional structure effects the other so while separate in relation to space and time flow, they still share the overall same dimensional structure and if the timeline is altered, it is shown to effect both in some capacity.

You better tag people with experience with tier 2, like @Planck69 for example.

Ok.

@Planck69 could you give your thoughts on the OP and specify if you think whether high 3-A or Low 2-C are acceptable. There is also talk for 2-C but given how are standards are I am unsure.

 

[Greenshifter]

I'm aware why you think it doesn't qualify for 2-C Griffin, but I'm pretty sure your provided reasoning is in fact enough, especially with the Ghost Zone being infinite in size. Not sure how the chain reaction argument should be treated though.