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Danganronpa Ultimate Revision (Massive Upgrades)

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FantaRin_The_First said:
"At least Town+ or High Town ap, At least Relativistic+ speed - Izuru/Fused Hajime

At least Town+ or High Town ap, High Hypersonic speed, Relativistic+ reactions - Sakura (sub relativistic travel speed with shukuchi technique), BTM Mukuro, Monokuma, Kenshiro in his prime

Town+ or High Town ap, High Hypersonic speed, Relativistic+ reactions - Genocide Jack, Base Mukuro, Mondo, Big Bang Monokuma, Warriors of Hopes Mechs

Multi City Block ap, Hypersonic+ speed, Relativistic+ reactions - Takumi, Nekomaru, Peko, Akane, Gundham, El Impostor, Kyosuke, Shuji, Seiko with drugs, Juzo

Small Building ap, Superhuman speed, Relativistic+ reactions - Komaru, Kanon, Byakuya, various Monokuma Units, Warriors of Hopes (kids)

Small Building ap, Superhuman speed and slightly higher superhuman reactions - Rest of the students and probably serial killers


It also seems that LS would be between 1 and 5 with only Big Bang Monokuma having class M and most students should also have athletic to peak human stamina because of hagakure.

Some interesting students that might need further looking into that hasn't yet

Small Building ap, Town+ or High Town ap with talent - Leon Kuwata (could destroy monokuma with yasuhiros crystal ball and pitching it real fast)

Small Building ap, Town+ or High Town durability - Junko Enoshima (as herself) (survived many of the ultimate punishments that killed even mondo)

Small Building ap, up to Town+ or High Town ap and High Hypersonic speed with inventions - Kazuichi

Small Building ap, Superhuman speed likely Hypersonic+ speed - Aoi Asahina (kept up with Juzo according to profile)" - @SpicyyyRamen "

Basically, the upgrades I am trying to apply.
Click to expand...
I had to remove the High 7-C part for Kazuichi, because it didn't make sense. He will only stay at 8-B because of Giant Monokuma, and up to 8-A for the other robots that can defeat robots that are comparable to Nekomaru Nidai. Giant Monokuma is a featless character that is also blank slate, it feels weird comparing him to Big Bang Monokuma, which had different creators, and set of abilities. Giving him High 7-C just because of a loose-comparison due to the few similarities present between Giant Monokuma and Big Bang Monokuma is kind of baseless. We can only do so much for something that appeared in just several frames.

Being an "Ultimate" doesn't make you the best, but only one of the best, or one of the best of the best. So, Kazuichi being the Ultimate Mechanic, doesn't instantly prove he's better than the likes of Monaca, who is not an Ultimate Mechanic. Whether he is or not, is up for debate, and I am not discussing that here. But a classic example of this is Kyoko and Licorne, he has better feats than even the current Kyoko, who is an Ultimate, even though he doesn't have the detective title. Izuru's case is a bit different here though.

I have done most (not all) of the stuff that needs changing, I just have to do some Danganronpa page patrolling, and maybe link calcs to some profiles?
 
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FantaRin_The_First said:
Thank you for everything, Butler! You did everything much better than I could!
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No problem, because of the recent revisions in Danganronpa, I am happy that the Class M lifting strength issue was fixed. It seemed weird to me that everyone just had it when the human characters have not shown any feats at that level. I also like that the mid-tiers and high/god-tiers have separate tiers. But hey, you're the one that proposed for the upgrades, so all of it was from your effort and planning. I just applied the few changes.
 
FantaRin_The_First said:
Shucks, you are making me embarrassed... Wait a moment, I think the 8-A feat that the 8-A cast scales to is Takumi's 8-A+ feat due to the fact that Kyosuke scales to Takumi... Hm. Oh well, if that is the case, I'll fix that up sooner or later.
Click to expand...
That, and also the matches relating to said Danganronpa characters have to be removed. Mostly the current 8-A, and High 7-C characters.
 
honestly since others also think so id be find to exclude togami as well since it was a nightmare to read through i only made it as far as i did because of some twisted curiosity. also yeah any proofreads and help with the profiles will be greatly appreciated and have been. i wasnt sure where we stood on togami on the wiki but i can certainly get behind non canon and strange lmao. anything else important to note?
 
I know its already listed but I'd like to get it approved also. the nagisa pushing a shrine feat is something every characters scales or upscales from for ls and it hasnt been approved yet. I know Fanta as reached out to cgms before to help with some of my calcs. is it possible someone can see if theyd eval it rq? just dont want to list a feat that hasnt been approved. not that im not confident in it. just looks bad i think (having it not evaled)
 
SpicyyyRamen said:
are we saying killer killer isnt canon and the mentions of it should be removed from the profiles?
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I think you're misunderstanding my statement. I never said Killer Killer is non-canon.

What I meant was that any listed matches under the characters with massive changes in statistics should be removed, a prime example of this would be Mukuro Ikusaba. Her matches happened when she was 8-B, and she's not 8-B anymore.
 
Just_a_Random_Butler said:
I think you're misunderstanding my statement. I never said Killer Killer is non-canon.

What I meant was that any listed matches under the characters with massive changes in statistics should be removed, a prime example of this would be Mukuro Ikusaba. Her matches happened when she was 8-B, and she's not 8-B anymore.
Click to expand...
ah i see my bad. i did misunderstand. I dont usually look to often at those matches at the bottom of pages so it slipped my mind
 
FantaRin asked me to close this thread. Is that acceptable, or is there still remaining important discussion here?
 
To repeat what I said a bit, and since I don't know when the others will come back, everything has been applied, more or less. What's left is a minor issue which can be fixed by me adding the + sign to various 8-A tier characters in the verse.
 
FantaRin_The_First said:
To repeat what I said a bit, and since I don't know when the others will come back, everything has been applied, more or less. What's left is a minor issue which can be fixed by me adding the + sign to various 8-A tier characters in the verse.
Click to expand...
SpicyyyRamen already did that. And I fixed the present errors in the edits. If I remember correctly, when adding + symbols, you don't do it on the tier, it ruins the template, which means no automated category. The + should only be applied to the Attack Potency, Striking Strength, and Durability.

Putting that aside, I want to just put the conclusion here, just in case there are additions that others might disagree on:
The goal was:
  • God Tier: High 7-C, with Relativistic+ speed
  • High Tier: At least High 7-C, with High Hypersonic speed, and Relativistic+ reactions
  • Low-High Tier: High 7-C, with High Hypersonic speed, and Relativistic+ reactions
  • Killer Killer Tier: 8-A+ with Hypersonic+ speed, and Relativistic+ reactions
  • Mid Tier: 8-A, with Hypersonic+ speed, and Relativistic+ reactions
  • ??? Tier: 8-B; Giant Monokuma is featless
  • Most UDG Human Casts: 9-A, with Superhuman speed, and Relativistic+ reactions
  • Human Casts: 9-A, with Superhuman speed, with Superhuman reactions
  • Outlier Tier: Casts with only one high statistic.

The rejected proposal:
  • Sub-Relativistic travel speed (The source is dubious)
  • High 7-C Mechs; Kazuichi Souda (There is no reason to compare his giant mech to the Big Bang Monkuma. The compromise was to make Kazuichi 8-B to 8-A, because of existing feats already)
  • High 7-C Danganronpa 2 Key; Monokuma (Making DGR2 Monokuma High 7-C breaks the scaling, and his data was made in Junko's image, not DGR1 Monokuma. The compromise was to make Danganronpa 2 Monokuma 8-A instead)

Aside from FantaRin's goal of changing the Killer Killer scaling from 8-A to 8-A+, which was already done by SpicyyyRamen. If there are still things that FantaRin wants to discuss or add to the table, then the discussion should be continued, but if that's not the case, and if no one disagrees with the conclusions above, then the thread can probably be closed.
 
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Really quick I know its last minute but i had been wanting to discuss it this time since last time it really ended with a "oh thats a mistranslation" and theres no feat.
It seems controversial but I want to discuss the BTM Mukuro scene again because after rewatching it I do think the feat and the calcs for it are valid (blog of the calcs that were accepted but i removed them due to others thinking they dont work). the text provided in the calc can be ignored as its mistranslated
First things first, I will show that mukuro is moving faster
This should be more than enough to show that the speed calculation is more than justified. Now onto the more controversial part. I think the KE part of the calc should be fine as well.
  • This specific story has treated consistently that things that move faster do more damage (AKA KE) as prime examples with Leon being able to destroy Monokuma with a crystal ball when pitched by him which is accepted on this wiki.
  • When Mukuro threw the metal rod it was compared to the speed and precision of a master archer. Not only just this but the metal rod was mentioned to have been thrown so fast that it defied all human logic. Junko was expecting this attack because she knew that Mukuro would want to put all her effort into an attack she couldnt react to as it was supposed to finish her but she knew it was coming and caught it. She even acknowledged the immense power that the metal rod now had but Monokuma was just superior. Monokuma catching it doesnt disprove its speed and power but just that Monokuma scales to the attack done. Mukuro and Sakura read what Junko would think and then catch her off guard because of this. She managed to do this by having sakuras brute strength launch her forward, mentioning the force generated propelling her forward (ke) so she could have enough power to overcome monokuma and force the metal rod into him. This again shows consistent treatment of ke.
For these many reasons i think it should be more than acceptable to add the calcs back, fix the incorrect snail speed, remove the mistranslation, and add the feats on the page. it would be about town level and still relativistic which is consistent. I just believe the evidence is far too reasonable
 
Can't say much here. Personally, me thinks that this is better asked somewhere else. Like the calc group threads or smth.
 
FantaRin_The_First said:
Can't say much here. Personally, me thinks that this is better asked somewhere else. Like the calc group threads or smth.
Click to expand...
havent been in the calc group thread but why is it better there? I think the calcs are fine its just the nature of battle trance mode's abilities and speed that are unclear and were rejected. im just trying to show that the text does support the calcs and the way they were done. still new tho so maybe youre right another thread would be better
 
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